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Axe-Fx III Firmware 10.00 Public Beta #2

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DonProm

New Member
Hi all,
can anyone tell me, what the best way is, when it comes to match presets from former firmwares to recent firmware updates?
In this specific case: I have the Naked Amps package from Austin Buddy - which is based on firmware 6.X and I am not quite sure if it makes sense to reset the amps or if there is another approach.
I am not talking about finetuning the presets - more about what the best starting point is - the original preset from Austin Buddy or the preset with a set back of the amp (or something else).
cheers,
DonProm
 

bradlake

Axe-Master
Hi all,
can anyone tell me, what the best way is, when it comes to match presets from former firmwares to recent firmware updates?
In this specific case: I have the Naked Amps package from Austin Buddy - which is based on firmware 6.X and I am not quite sure if it makes sense to reset the amps or if there is another approach.
I am not talking about finetuning the presets - more about what the best starting point is - the original preset from Austin Buddy or the preset with a set back of the amp (or something else).
cheers, And
DonProm
Since none of the updates since 6 have required an amp reset advisory from FAS, the prevailing logic (and advice from Buddy, I think), would be to use AB’s settings, but the bottom Line is as always , your ears, and Cliffs outrageous rate of recent updates absolutely bring new factors into play....it is easy enough to copy an AB preset to a blank space (got any left?..) and reset the amp there and hear for yourself..(quick and dirty way to do this is edit the existing preset and DO NOT SAVE (go to another preset and back) to retain buddy‘s original settings....)
 
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Randalljax

Fractal Fanatic
It sounds great but i am not noticing a huge difference from 9.0
I would say the feel is a bit more chewy or elastic

Maybe more noticeable cranked up through a real cab or my ears could be shot too
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Thanks for the continuous updates and refinements!

Possible bug... The Trainwreck Express has been making a bizarre sound since updating. It's like an electronic fizz sound. Will look into it more tomorrow.
Got out the reference amp and it sounds the same. For all the hoopla surrounding Trainwrecks they're actually pretty bad designs. Tons of blocking distortion in the PI.

If you don't want all that blocking distortion turn down PI Bias Excursion.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Got out the reference amp and it sounds the same. For all the hoopla surrounding Trainwrecks they're actually pretty bad designs. Tons of blocking distortion in the PI.

If you don't want all that blocking distortion turn down PI Bias Excursion.
Wow, turning down PI Bias Excursion yields the ultimate Trainwreck. Sounds much better than the real amp. I also adjusted the Preamp Bias so it wasn't so off-center.
 

Smilzo

Power User
Got out the reference amp and it sounds the same. For all the hoopla surrounding Trainwrecks they're actually pretty bad designs. Tons of blocking distortion in the PI.
The TW are known for their "dynamics". Guitar volume down for clean tone, up for distortion, halfway for crunch. They have some fuzz quality, you must drive the power amp for rounder tone. Balancing with the PI distortion. It give the amp the agility to come in and out of clean/lead tone.
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
The TW are known for their "dynamics". Guitar volume down for clean tone, up for distortion, halfway for crunch. They have some fuzz quality, you must drive the power amp for rounder tone. Balancing with the PI distortion. It give the amp the agility to come in and out of clean/lead tone.
There's no control over "driving the power amp" because there's no master volume. And the PI distortion is irrelevant because the output transformer is so overmatched that the power tubes distort well before the PI does. Or are you just parroting internet talking points?

The reason they clean up when you back off the volume is because the OT is so overmatched. It's about twice the optimum value.

It's a lousy design with the usual attendant mythology. Rare and expensive so it must be good.

[EDIT] Also, there's almost no amp that gets it's distortion from PI clipping. The headroom of the PI is typically far greater than the power tubes. The power tube grids will clip long before the PI clips. The only time PI distortion is audible is when there is post-phase inverter master volume (PPIMV).

For example the typical bias point in an EL-34 amp is, say, -30V. Therefore the grids can only swing positive by about 30V before they clip. The PI can typically swing 100V or more before it clips.
 
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lwknives

Experienced
There's no control over "driving the power amp" because there's no master volume. And the PI distortion is irrelevant because the output transformer is so overmatched that the power tubes distort well before the PI does. Or are you just parroting internet talking points?

The reason they clean up when you back off the volume is because the OT is so overmatched. It's about twice the optimum value.

It's a lousy design with the usual attendant mythology. Rare and expensive so it must be good.

[EDIT] Also, there's almost no amp that gets it's distortion from PI clipping. The headroom of the PI is typically far greater than the power tubes. The power tube grids will clip long before the PI clips. The only time PI distortion is audible is when there is post-phase inverter master volume (PPIMV).

For example the typical bias point in an EL-34 amp is, say, -30V. Therefore the grids can only swing positive by about 30V before they clip. The PI can typically swing 100V or more before it clips.
1571234610154.png

Its one of my favorite amps in the Ax8.
 

brianv4

Power User
Turn PI Bias Excursion to 0. Set Preamp Bias to -0.15 or so.
Thanks. On the Wrecked factory preset (wrecker express), using my ears I put PI bias excursion to roughly 22%, preamp bias to 0 added output compression to .5 (type set to output). Sounds pretty damn good!
 

sprint

Power User
Got out the reference amp and it sounds the same. For all the hoopla surrounding Trainwrecks they're actually pretty bad designs. Tons of blocking distortion in the PI.

If you don't want all that blocking distortion turn down PI Bias Excursion.
Seems the modelling has moved onto a whole other plane when tone oddities are noticed in amp models (ie Trainwreck today, and with the ghost notes in the Ac20 a few days ago) , and are suspected to be possible bugs only to be confirmed to be characteristic of the real amps. The amp model themselves are becoming precise benchmarks.
 

zenaxe

Fractal Fanatic
probably not possible to implement due to everything that's going on under the hood, but wouldn't it be cool to have an "ideal" and "authentic" switch with the tube types that either normalizes everything or keeps it exactly like it would be on a real amp (even on the verge of destruction) and then "fixable" with the exposed parameters.

when real tubes are properly set up, biased etc. in real amps, they actually don't make such a massive difference, but people usually talk about tubes sounding different when there's some mismatching going on...
This deserves a post in the wishlist IMHO. I have wanted that ever since the power tube switching was implemented.
 

deathbyguitar

Experienced
I remember back during the Axe-FX standard days where emphasis seemed to be on models that were improved designs of their real life counterparts. Now we have models that are so close to real life that people think their inherent flaws are bugs in the modeling and people end up preferring the idealized versions.

Is the focus at this point just on accuracy, "warts and all", or are there still instances where you prefer the models to be better than what's possible in real life? Do you reserve perfection for the FAS models? I think this kind of thing could make a REALLY great tech notes article.
 
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