What are the differences between expression pedals?

[Monchito]

Hello all. I have been reading the threads about the different expression pedals.
I am struggling to understand what makes them different from each other.

I am looking into the cheaper Boss, Roland and Moog options because I only want a pedal to control the Wah sweeps at the moment. But if I should hold off for now and purchase the Mission engineering or the Fractal stuff later on as a better option i'd like to know why.

Can you tell me why some are better than others or why you prefer yours? I really can't figure out the hike in price of some of the models. Are they so much better part from the sturdiness of the built?

 

[philipacamaniac]

Most of the price difference is build quality and/or origin. Some of the price difference is just brand recognition/premium.

As far as the actual internal components, there isn't a huge difference. The same basic design principal - it's a potentiometer mechanically attached to the foot control. Usually linear taper, anywhere from 10K to 500K resistance (10-100K is required for Fractal). The pot is wired directly to a TRS jack in various configurations.

Some pedals have extra features like minimum value pots and second outputs.

For mission critical gigging, I'd use a sturdier design. I prefer the VPjr chassis and look, so that's what I use. EV-1 looks like a tank though (in a good way).

I have a Boss FV-50H modified for expression, but I only use it for keyboard stuff at home. Cheap plastic is cheap.

 

[brokenvail]

In theory they all do the same. The Fractal has the best sweep range (little to no dead spots) SO many expression pedals have deal spots at the beginning or end of the pots travel. The other factor is what is mentioned above; build quility

 

[RLD]

I have two of the Moog @$40 each.
They work great but others do as well so spend as much as you want.

 

[jarabuandi]

Hello all. I have been reading the threads about the different expression pedals.
I am struggling to understand what makes them different from each other.

I am looking into the cheaper Boss, Roland and Moog options because I only want a pedal to control the Wah sweeps at the moment. But if I should hold off for now and purchase the Mission engineering or the Fractal stuff later on as a better option i'd like to know why.

Can you tell me why some are better than others or why you prefer yours? I really can't figure out the hike in price of some of the models. Are they so much better part from the sturdiness of the built?

I've got a Mission that I use for the WAH block...and about a week ago I bought a Moog pedal same as @RLD for the VOL block (or whatever i may wanna try ) and I like 'em both. Plug in setup it up an you're good to go...and the Moog is cheaper. Win win for me.
Good luck

 

[Sleestak]

For my AxeFX rig, I'm using an MFC-101 as the controller. On that pedalboard are two of the Fractal Audio EV-1 pedals, along with a Mission crybaby-style pedal. On my AX8 board, I have two AMT EX-50 continuous controllers. Here are some thoughts on them:

Fractal Audio EV-1
The EV-1 pedal is easily the highest quality continuous controller pedal that I have ever used. It's smooth, beautifully built, and very easy to use for fine-grain control. It's also big, heavy, and expensive. But you get what you pay for. I have used many continuous controllers over the years, that the EV-1 is the best overall. I use one as my dedicated volume control and the other as a blend control for delay / reverb / effect feathering.

Mission Controller
Basically the same action as a Crybaby, in exactly the same style of housing. I've used a wah pedal for 4 decades. As much as I love the quality and smooth control of the Fractal Audio EV-1, I'm just really accustomed to the feel of a Crybaby. So I use the Mission as my wah controller, plus anything else where quick-throw control is useful, such as adjusting the speed of my rotary effect, or moving through a formant filter. The Mission controllers are also very well-built and likely to last forever. I'm not 100% crazy about the mechanics of the action adjustment. If you want more / less resistance for the pedal, you just loosen a screw and move a nylon cable loop against the tread mechanism. No different from a wah pedal in that regard, but it seems like something that could be engineered to be a little more resilient.

AMT EX-50 Continuous Controller
The biggest thing these pedals have going for them is that they're really small and lightweight. They're very small. To the point that you may have a difficult time making adjustments with them. I have size 9 1/2 feet, and these little controllers get lost under my shoes when I'm using them. Once you get accustomed to them, they're pretty good. For my fly rig, size and weight are at a premium, so these were a good choice. It's pretty difficult to make fine-grained adjustments, but they're solidly built and despite having a short throw, are actually fairly linear in response.

 

[Monchito]

Most of the price difference is build quality and/or origin. Some of the price difference is just brand recognition/premium.

As far as the actual internal components, there isn't a huge difference.
... I prefer the VPjr chassis and look, so that's what I use. EV-1 looks like a tank though (in a good way).

Thanks for confirming my suspicion. I kept reading through all the specs of the different models and couldn't understand the price differences. At the end of the day it's just a pot with x resistance in a case, correct?

How has the EB served you? I read a few posts where people complain about the Y connection and a string break issue? My main intention is to buy this to control Wah, probably exclusively, so if you have any insight on how it works for that I'll be happy to hear it.

I have two of the Moog @$40 each.

This is currently my number one on the list. Out of all the pedals I have only had experience with Dunlop, Boss and Moog products. This little model also would go great with my Moog synth so it's been leading the running during my research just from a brand recognition and versatility (for my purposes) standpoint. It's cheap and Moog make solid stuff so I wonder if it's as good as I think it would be to choose it.

I've got a Mission that I use for the WAH block...and about a week ago I bought a Moog pedal same as @RLD for the VOL block (or whatever i may wanna try ) and I like 'em both. Plug in setup it up an you're good to go...and the Moog is cheaper. Win win for me.
Good luck

Mission appeals to me because of the form-factor. I like CryBaby's so I suppose it'd feel good. But I don't know if I want to spend the extra cash on this. What would be the cheapest/standard option from Mission for use, mainly as a way?

I am also a bit confused with Mission's marketing and all the versions of the same pedals but for different modelers. Line 6 model, Helix, Kemper, etc... also the signature models: why are those special?

Earlier today I was looking at the Pigtronix model but ended not buying it because I felt the double inverse feature would be something I'd never use. Otherwise it looked ok.

On my AX8 board, I have two AMT EX-50 continuous controllers. Here are some thoughts on them:

Fractal Audio EV-1
I use one as my dedicated volume control and the other as a blend control for delay / reverb / effect feathering.


AMT EX-50 Continuous Controller
The biggest thing these pedals have going for them is that they're really small and lightweight. They're very small.

I am keeping the Fractal in the back of my mind. But since you bring it up, the AMT seems to have a similar approach as the smaller Moog pedals and the recent Dunlop DVP4 (mini Volume X).

I am really interested in hearing about that model. I also wonder if the full sized DVP3 would be a good option. Even though for that price I suppose I'd be better off with the Fractal or Mission pedal.

And now sacrilege: Have you guys tried the Line 6 EX1 with your AX8?

Right now my main options for wah are:

• Roland EV-5 Expression Pedal
• Ernie Ball VP Jr. P06180 250K
• Dunlop DVP4 Volume X Mini
• Dunlop DVP3
• Moog ACCEP003 EP3
• BEHRINGER FCV100

Thanks everybody for the help. I really appreciate it!

 

[philipacamaniac]

If you go the VPjr route you'll probably want the 25k if you don't plan on modifying it - not the 250k. It has an audio taper which works fine for my purposes but does require shaping the modifier curves occasionally. If you are handy with a soldering iron it is relatively painless swapping the pot with a linear 100k and one of the jacks with a TRS.

I have gigged two VPjr's for many years without a string break.

 

[Monchito]

If you are handy with a soldering iron it is relatively painless swapping the pot with a linear 100k and one of the jacks with a TRS.

So I'd have to get the 25k and mod it? Is this what you did? I just checked a video of the string change. It looks pretty easy to fix in case the mechanism would ever fail. But do I need to mod this from the get-go? Doesn't the 250k have a trim to limit the sweep?

The more I look the more I am leaning towards the Roland or the Moog for the better deal. The EB is more expensive but still affordable. But if I have to invest time in the mod it might be a turn-off. Then, there is the Dunlop which might not be the best option for the price.

 

[philipacamaniac]

So I'd have to get the 25k and mod it? Is this what you did? I just checked a video of the string change. It looks pretty easy to fix in case the mechanism would ever fail. But do I need to mod this from the get-go? Doesn't the 250k have a trim to limit the sweep?

The more I look the more I am leaning towards the Roland or the Moog for the better deal. The EB is more expensive but still affordable. But if I have to invest time in the mod it might be a turn-off. Then, there is the Dunlop which might not be the best option for the price.

I did not mod my 25k and I'm fine with both the taper and the use of an insert cable. I don't know that you'll get full range out of the 250k because it falls outside the required maximum resistance of 100k. I tried a custom wired linear 250k pot once (just the pot and a jack, no pedal) and it only went to about 80% in calibration.

I have a Boss which has the same feel and quality as the Roland. Don't do the Roland - very overpriced for an all-plastic chassis. Do the Moog if you need to low ball it. IMO.

 

[Rex]

The main difference between expression pedals is the feel—you can say that about guitars, too.

If you get the chance, spend a week with a low-priced pedal. Then spend ten minutes with a high-end one like Fractal or Mission. You'll understand right away.

That said, I spent years with inexpensive pedals, and they worked fine. They still do. But they don't hold a candle to the velvet lovin' that my foot gets from my EV-1. It's more expressive, just like a good guitar.

 

[benvigil]

You're right. The primary differences are going to be form factor and build quality, and only you can decide which are important for you.

I have 2x the Moog EP-3 ($39) and can't think of any reason why I'd want to spend more money unless I was going on tour and needed something more ultra durable (e.g. metal housing). They're lightweight, durable, work perfectly, and have a form factor very similar to a crybaby.

If you are concerned about the Moog EP-3 being plastic, you might want to add the Behringer FC600 to your list, which is die-cast aluminum and only $59.

Another possible feature that might limit your options is a spring loaded pedal. A spring loaded pedal will return to heel position automatically like some of the Morley pedals -- I have a modified Tremonti Wah that does this. There aren't many spring loaded expression pedals out there.

There's also the Yamaha FC7, which I had for a while but sold because the throw was just way too big. It was very difficult to do fast "wahs" because the distance from heel to toe was so far. The throw on a traditional crybaby form factor is much smaller. For a volume pedal, the longer throw might be helpful, but not as a wah.

 

[Monchito]

I don't know that you'll get full range out of the 250k because it falls outside the required maximum resistance of 100k.

I see. I have spent too much time away from electronics. used to do more little projects so my mind was more tuned to stuff like this. You are correct. If the Axe has a cap at the 100k the extra range of the pot basically falls out of the "reading" (if that's a proper way of calling it). SO basically the calling would be 1-127 for the 100k range and nothing beyond that? Just a dead spot?

Initially I thought it would just take a longer sweep to go through the values if that makes sense. And I thought that'd just make it feel different from what a 100k pot would do. I just assumed that. Now I am curious to read on it. Thanks!

The main difference between expression pedals is the feel—you can say that about guitars, too.

I see you point. I just don't think I'll use this feature too much. So for the time being I just want a reliable design that doesn't take up too much space and will work without problems for a few years. Thanks for the tip!

You're right. The primary differences are going to be form factor and build quality, and only you can decide which are important for you.

I have 2x the Moog EP-3 ($39) and can't think of any reason why I'd want to spend more money unless I was going on tour and needed something more ultra durable (e.g. metal housing). They're lightweight, durable, work perfectly, and have a form factor very similar to a crybaby.

....

I ended up ordering the mini dunlop as it looked like a somewhat stupider design than the Moog. I will check it out for a few days and see how it goes. Regarding the other features you list.... I just don't need them. I've never used the Morley Wah's so I won't miss a mechanism that jumps back in place and for me this more of a starter buy anyway. I want to get into using the way primarily and will only consider buying a bigger footprint and better feeling unit if I continue to like what I am getting into.

With this thread I think you guys gave me some really good options though and the Moog is still on my list so let's see how it goes.

Thanks everyone!

 

[Cem]

I have 1 Huge Fractal and 1 mini dunlop volume.

I use both at home, recording. Mini dunlop goes travelling with me. I wouldn't buy the EV-1 again in my case, since basically it's uncarriable for me. Instead I would get 2 dunlop minis. But it's all about transportation in this matter.

Feel is much better with ev-1 but that's because of the bigger grip. I love the mini dunlop.

 

[Monchito]

Totally agree. I still feel like getting a Mission. For a moment I even considered getting just a wah I like and leaving the block free for other stuff in the patches. But we'll see. So far the Dunlop is nice. It.s just feeling different because of size and mechanics. Sorry about my typo up there: I meant to say sturdier and not stupider. Weird glitch I guess.

 

[glombi]

You are correct. If the Axe has a cap at the 100k the extra range of the pot basically falls out of the "reading" (if that's a proper way of calling it). SO basically the calling would be 1-127 for the 100k range and nothing beyond that? Just a dead spot?

No, that's not how a voltage divider works. The specification ranges from 10K to 100K (which I see as a recommendation) in case of the first 10K = 100%, in the later 100K = 100%. I'm sure even 5K or 150K would be fine. At some point the internal current over that resisitor might get to high (<<10K) or to low (>>100K) for proper operation. As you can even connect a switch directely, I'm sure even a lower restiance would not cause a damage.

 

[Rex]

As you can even connect a switch directely, I'm sure even a lower restiance would not cause a damage.

True. Remember that in one position, the expression pedal had a resistance of zero, and the equipment handles that just fine. You won't break anything by changing the pot value.

 

[philipacamaniac]

No, that's not how a voltage divider works. The specification ranges from 10K to 100K (which I see as a recommendation) in case of the first 10K = 100%, in the later 100K = 100%. I'm sure even 5K or 150K would be fine. At some point the internal current over that resisitor might get to high (<<10K) or to low (>>100K) for proper operation. As you can even connect a switch directely, I'm sure even a lower restiance would not cause a damage.

It just won't read a full sweep. I've tested a 250k linear pot and a 500k linear pot (fairly common pot values) - each just wired directly in alligator clips and a TRS jack, to see how the response was. Neither made it past 75%.

100k, 25k, and 10k pots work beautifully though. I haven't tested a 50k.

 

[mbrown3]

I have a Moog on my board and it works great. No complaints at all. Compared to other pedals I've used, the sweep is much smaller. But I literally only use it for a volume pedal and it's perfect for that. I got used to the sweep pretty quickly. No issues with durability or function at all.

 

[Admin M@]

As some others have mentioned in previous posts, there is also the new Fractal Audio EV-2 to consider.
(I don't have a release date yet, but production is underway).

This new product takes what people love about the EV-1 ... smooth linear action, built like a tank, Fractal logo ;-) ... and puts it in to a smaller form factor. I'll be able to fit two of the new EV-2 pedals in my backpack with an AX8.