The New Bright Knob

Oh, but it does such wonderful things to other amps. To every amp I've tried thus far, in fact.
 
I believe the following is correct, but I may be wrong:

The Triaxis sims in the Axe were modelled with Cliff's Triaxis' Presence control on maximum.
I believe it goes from 1 to 10 on a real Triaxis.

With the Axe's new Bright control in v13.07 when using one of the Triaxis sims...
The Triaxis sims are the same as they were in previous firmware versions when the new Bright control is at 0db.

Values lower than 0 db simulate turning a real Triaxis' Presence control lower than its maximum (10).
E.g. With the new Axe Bright control set to -3.5db it's probably similar to a real Triaxis' Presence control at 7.0.

Values higher than 0db simulate a Triaxis whose Presence control can add even more highs than a normal Triaxis.
E.g. With the new Axe Bright control on +3.5db it's probably similar to a real Triaxis' Presence control at 12 or 13 even though a real Triaxis' Presence control never actually went that high.

With the Axe's new Bright control in v13.07 when using all the other non-Triaxis amp sims...
A value of 0db on the new Bright control is the same as the pre-13.07 defaults and you can either add or subtract highs via this control.

If I'm wrong about any of this I hope to be corrected soon.
 
Irotlas said:
I was talking JUST about the Triaxis model, I don't know and don't care what fancy things that knob does to other amps...
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I believe the design is to make it standard for all amps... Is it impossible for you to get your tone or does it just confuses you when you adjust the knobs?
 
haha ok!

I just find it funny that if I want to have presence 0.0 in my triaxis, 0 is not enought (0.0 in axe fx is 5.0 in real world as it's been told), now I have to use another knob go there. Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely GREAT that now I can get there BUT please tell me what's the point having two knobs to do it? :D

And for other amps that has matched presence, IMO, who wants to go below zero? Your sound dissappears if you're not using SUPER bright IR....
 
Well played.... If you do not want to use the knob... Don't.... Nice use of "poopoo"...

lern2swim said:
Disagree so much.

Less is not more. More is more. That's why more and more are the same word.

Also, it's becoming more and more (not less and less) simple to dial in great tones with just basic controls. So, if you want less, use less. Don't sit there and poopoo the fact that there's tons of "unrealistic" (whatever that means) knobs for those that want them.
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Irotlas said:
Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely GREAT that now I can get there BUT please tell me what's the point having two knobs to do it? :D
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Because, you're using a modeller that has numerous amps, and this allows the controls to be standardized, rather than needing different control parameters for every single amp, which would be a pain in the ass for the developers and users.
 
Irotlas said:
please tell me what's the point having two knobs to do it?
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The two knobs are not doing the same thing. The confusion comes from Mesa/Boogie using the word "presence" to describe a simple EQ in the preamp. My old rig (which I still have) was a Triaxis into a Mesa 395 poweramp. This rig has a real presence control in the power amp and a "fake" presence (EQ) in the preamp. The two presence controls sound very different because the operating principle is different.

Engl could also have called the highest frequency band "presence" in the E530 preamp but they decided to go with Bass, low mid, high mid, treble.
 
Andre Antunes said:
Less is More. Sounds like the Axe is starting to have so much unecessary and "unrealistic" knobs to tweak.
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Less is not more but if you would like to sell your Axe-Fx II for LESS then half of what you bought it for, I would be MORE than happy to take it off your hands and then you could go buy a POD or GT and have more for less but then you may have way more "unrealistic" knobs to tweak. Catch 22 ;-)
 
So does this have any use on amps other than the Triaxis?

Also, I saw the technical description above, but can someone explain in simpler, practical, terms the difference between this, the bright switch, the treble knob and the presence knob?

Thanks.
 
Irotlas said:
haha ok!

I just find it funny that if I want to have presence 0.0 in my triaxis, 0 is not enought (0.0 in axe fx is 5.0 in real world as it's been told), now I have to use another knob go there. Don't get me wrong, it is absolutely GREAT that now I can get there BUT please tell me what's the point having two knobs to do it? :D

And for other amps that has matched presence, IMO, who wants to go below zero? Your sound dissappears if you're not using SUPER bright IR....
Click to expand...

What makes you think that?

My understanding is that the with any one of the Axe's Triaxis sims when the Bright control at -12db it's equivalent to the a real Triaxis' Presence control at minimum.
With the bright control at 0 db it's like a real Triaxis' Presence control on maximum.
To mimic a real Triaxis with its Presence control on 5 my guess is that the Axe's Bright control should be set to approximately 6.0db.

It might be nice to be able have a Bright control setting that mimics a real Triaxis with its Presence control lower than maximum.
But the way it is now is fine with me.
If you want the Axe's Triaxis sims to be darker than a real Triaxis is capable of you can always turn the Bright Switch off and/or use the amp sim's EQ page or several other paramters.
You can't do that with a real Triaxis.
 
We wouldn't even have this conversation if the model was 100% right, now you see the point...

These are just my thoughts about this Triaxis/Bright knob thing, I'm using the IIC+ anyways so I'm OK with this :D
 
GotMetalBoy said:
Less is not more but if you would like to sell your Axe-Fx II for LESS then half of what you bought it for, I would be MORE than happy to take it off your hands and then you could go buy a POD or GT and have more for less but then you may have way more "unrealistic" knobs to tweak. Catch 22 ;-)
Click to expand...

Your post reminds me of the "Counter Offer" scene in My Cousin Vinny. Very funny scene, yet strangely logical, in a twisted kind of way . . . :)

Watch My Cousin Vinny: Counter Offer online | Free | Hulu
 
bjjp2 said:
So does this have any use on amps other than the Triaxis?
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Oh, yes. A simple twist of the Bright knob turns my wonderful Shiver Clean studio preset into an equally wonderful live preset. A twist in the other direction adds some brazen attitude to my DC-30.


bjjp2 said:
Also, I saw the technical description above, but can someone explain in simpler, practical, terms the difference between this, the bright switch, the treble knob and the presence knob?
Click to expand...
The new Bright knob boosts or cuts treble between the preamp and power amp. The Treble knob does sort of the same thing wherever the tone stack is located in a particular model. The Bright g adds extra treble, but only when you turn down the gain. The Presence knob affects higher frequencies by changing the power amp's feedback loop (this can also change the flavor of power amp distortion and the damping of the virtual speaker).
 
Irotlas said:
We wouldn't even have this conversation if the model was 100% right, now you see the point...

These are just my thoughts about this Triaxis/Bright knob thing, I'm using the IIC+ anyways so I'm OK with this :D
Click to expand...
What I see is that you are the one missing the point. You don't have two knobs for Presence on the Triaxis models in the Axe. You now have one (the new Bright knob), whereas before we had zero. Before "Bright" was added, what the Triaxis calls Presence was fixed at maximum in the Axe (meaning no high cut after the preamp). There was no adjustment to model the behavior of the Triaxis Presence parameter before the Bright knob. The "Presence" control on the Axe is for negative feedback in the power amp section, not the preamp. It has nothing to do with the Triaxis preamp model. And if Cliff modeled the Triaxis Bright to simulate the Triaxis Presence only for negative values of Bright, it only makes the Bright parameter more flexible by allowing the user to boost the high shelf between the preamp and power amp. What is it about this that doesn't sit right? Is it the fact that Mesa mislabeled "Presence", or is it the fact that you can cut and boost this parameter with the Axe rather than just cut? PS...Is your username an anagram for Sr. Italo?
 
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Irotlas said:
We wouldn't even have this conversation if the model was 100% right, now you see the point...
Click to expand...

Yes- kind of.. but here's my observation which I think is correct(!?) apologies for repeating anything already stated!!-

The Triaxis models couldn't be 100% accurate up until now.... Because it wasn't possible to emulate a Triaxis in to a power amp before without this new additional control which is vital to do this fully.
The traditional presence control resides in the virtual power amp circuit like a Boogie PA would have. In addition to that PA control, the Triaxis preamp also has it's own shelving control marked presence. You need both of these controls interacting together to properly simulate this pre/ power amp combination, but it does have much wider applications in other amps and is very welcome to me- Thanks Cliff!

It was said earlier that it's possibly an 'unrealistic' control, but many amps have fixed post preamp tone shaping of some kind. If you don't want to vary it just leave it at 0 no problem....

This kind of preamp top cut control is something that I've routinely added to my own tube amps over the years, as lifting the treble in the tonestack (especially if it's pre drive) and rolling off some top from the preamp output while retaining a little sizzle from the power amp is fabulous. Try a completely undamped lightly over driven power amp and use the new control instead of the presence - it's great for a loose very touch responsive feel and very different to adjusting the traditional presence.

Happy days!
 
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