Is Axe Fx Viable?

I think you're asking a great question. The AxeFX is a tool. You have choices when working with tools. Maybe you need to cut a wood board; you could use a table saw, a miter saw, a reciprocating saw, a hand saw... in the end, what you need is wood cut, and you can do a good job or a lousy job with any of those tools. It doesn't make any of them more or less viable.

I have played guitar professionally for 35+ years, on tour and in the studio. I have used a wide variety of amps, modelers, pedals, etc. Before I bought the AxeFX, my primary rig was a Boogie Lonestar (with some boutique mods), plus a big pedalboard full of boutique pedals (Keely, Empress, Strymon, Catalinbread, Malekko, etc). When I got the AxeFX it took me a good month to become proficient in programming my own tones, and I continue to refine my skills in this regard. However, after only a few months of AxeFX use, I sold my tube amps (all of them), and most of my pedals. My entire primary rig is the AxeFX + MFC101 + power amp + 2 FRFR speakers. I've played in a lot of venues, and one of the most common comments I get from FOH engineers is "that is the best guitar tone I've ever had at the board". I will take a little credit for making some of that tone, but much of it is due to the capabilities of the AxeFX.

Your question is legitimate. I will tell you that the AxeFX is the best music gear purchase of my life. It's a tool, and you can make great sounds with it, and you can also make pretty crummy sounds with it. If you invest the time to learn to use it, you will be rewarded with some of the best guitar sounds you will ever hear, and you will have a massive flexible palette of tone at your fingertips.

Buying a computer-controlled saw won't automatically make you a great woodworker. You need to understand the tool, practice using it, and have a vision for your desired result.
 
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Pretty sure I never said that. I have said that I prefer playing real amps more but that's a different thing.

/Ola

On your website it says that you think real amps do sound and feel better. That is what I'm going by. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth and I apologize if it seemed so.
 
On your website it says that you think real amps do sound and feel better. That is what I'm going by. I didn't mean to put words in your mouth and I apologize if it seemed so.

Oh there you go! But personally I do think so. I still record my amps because I have the possibility to do so. For me it gives a more personal touch. That doesn't mean the Axe Fx is a bad piece of equipment or that it's not as good if you know how to work it. Or better or worse than a Kemper. I'm lucky enough to be able to have them as well as the amp so I don't really have to choose. I would just go over your needs and see what would suit you better.

In fact I was playing around with my Axe Fx 2 today. It's not like it's collecting dust or anything. My problem is that when I start tweaking. I can never stop...
 
Exactly that - Something I'd expect out of a Line 6 spider.

That would take quite some work! I've personally never seen someone sound terrible on the axefx that didn't sound terrible on everything they played. You either understand why you're turning the knobs or you don't.

As far as the "analog is easier" idea goes, I used to believe this too till I realized that it's just a lack of options that you learn to live with that leads you to this conclusion. You have a few cabs and a few heads, you mix and match a few times and then make the best of what you've got with the knobs. If you had 200+ heads and 500 cabs in a warehouse, and a tech with a soldering iron on call, you would probably wouldn't call it easier. That being said, lots of people thrive by limiting their options so they can get right to making music, so I don't want to sound like I'm knocking the analog approach. 98.99% of the AxeFx's options are to excite the player, not the audience, and could be considered frivolous in the grand scheme of things. Reminds me a lot of the "Tape vs Pro Tools" debate.


There is no reason that presets, which are basically "bundled knowledge," are not commercially sold as much as IRs are.

...snip...

I don't understand why the community is so against this - we're too prideful in our ability to achieve our own sounds, not realizing that many tones are beyond our comprehension as musicians.

I've never seen anyone that's actually opposed to this, I've only seen folks skeptical of how presets will translate to the end user's rig and usage. I downloaded about 10 presets from axechange, found that they didn't make me sound like the clips and I ultimately gave up trying to make other peoples presets work. I'd bet you could make some pretty good money doing consulting for folks tho. Especially if there was a way for someone to remotely log into your Axe Edit and make changes based on your feedback. That seems to be the only way to deal with all the variables. It's more than just pick ups, and guitars... What/How are you monitoring? how many instruments are you sharing a mix with? What kind of instruments? What kind of music are you playing? What kind of subset of a subset inside of another subset of a genre are you playing? Think of the gulf between Alice Cooper, Sabbath, Death, Converge, and Animals as Leaders, yet we even use similar words to describe what we like about their tones.

Hope I'm not sounding like I'm singling you out for an argument, you just posed some great food for thought!
 
Hope I'm not sounding like I'm singling you out for an argument, you just posed some great food for thought!

Don't worry, the Line 6 Spider was an exaggeration - it's more that I hear some people settle with tones out of the Axe FX that you could easily get out of a much lesser unit while the Axe FX is clearly capable of producing industry quality sounds.

That's part of what I meant about making analog sound easier - the limited options. You plug into a Mark V and it sounds good instantly. I don't always feel that way about just turning on USA Lead and respective cab. That being said, you can easily get the Axe FX to sound as good - it just takes a little more work.

As for the preset deal - check out the debate threads in the past when people discuss the topic of selling presets. Quite a lot of people find it ridiculous because they think it's the player's responsibility to learn the equipment they are using entirely. I'm mostly pointing out the flaws in that argument; many engineers spent their lives dedicated to sound and probably still don't fully understand the Axe FX.

I thought about editing my post when it came to "pickups and guitars," as there are many other things that can color the tone, but I left it there as those are the most fundamental examples. I find many times that presets won't sound as great as they did for the creator, but can often tweak them into the realm of what works for me (and indeed, the best sound I've created was due to the tweaking of a preset created by one of Neal Schon's technicians).

Of course another factor you brought up is the mix you are working in as well as whether or not any post-processing was applied, but I think if commercial presets were available, it would be obvious that the best choice would be leaving post-processing to a minimum when sampling said sounds.

There are ways of editing Axe edit remotely - by controlling someone's computer remotely! May not be the most advisable solution at the time being though :)
 
On your website it says that you think real amps do sound and feel better.

Preference for one doesn't threaten the viability of the other. I'm willing to bet he enjoys how you work with real amps over the axe, but an axe fx wizard could whip something up that would erase all preference. How you get to the tone of your dreams is as important as identifying the tone of your dreams afterall, and if you find one route to be the easiest, you should take it!
 
Since everyone is focusing on the tones, let me hit another key part of the equation. Light "box full o' amps" versus tube head and 4x12's. I've had two hernia surgeries and I'll take the unit over those any day. :)
 
Since everyone is focusing on the tones, let me hit another key part of the equation. Light "box full o' amps" versus tube head and 4x12's. I've had two hernia surgeries and I'll take the unit over those any day. :)


This shit right here. I actually took a workman's comp settlement that I was SUPPOSED to spend on back therapy and bought my Axe Fx. No regrets, back feels great.
 
it's more that I hear some people settle with tones out of the Axe FX that you could easily get out of a much lesser unit while the Axe FX is clearly capable of producing industry quality sounds.

I've seen the same thing with real "industry standard" amps. Getting the mics to paint an accurate picture of what your ears are hearing and enjoying in a room is tough to do! It takes a professional, or an immense amount of time and effort, regardless of what you use.

As for the preset deal - check out the debate threads in the past when people discuss the topic of selling presets. Quite a lot of people find it ridiculous because they think it's the player's responsibility to learn the equipment they are using entirely.

The closest thing I've seen to this is folks saying that you have to do it yourself, because only you know the variables in play in your situation. If presets translated better, I'd imagine all opposition would melt. It's not "you should get to know your own gear" as much as "no one else knows your needs like you do".

Of course another factor you brought up is the mix you are working in as well as whether or not any post-processing was applied

I don't want to bring post-processing into the equation at all, and the mix I was referring to was the stage mix. Who you share the stage with matters, and should lead you to make differing decisions. As the other musicians in my bands changed their rigs up, I'd have to make changes with them for the sake of synergy. Hell, back in the tube amp days I'd have to make small changes based on the room we were in, glad that's mostly over!
 
Ah stage mix... I'm less worried on that front. Live tone is much more forgiving than studio tone in my opinion!
 
I wouldn't want to be without my tube amps any more than my solid state stuff! I dig my 3w blackstar on vacation, my axe fx at night and while recording, and tube amps for whenever I can play loud enough. None of it sounds the same, and you can't replace the offerings of either camp.
 
We have a saying in Spain: "Poderoso caballero Don Dinero"
(a rough translation would be: "Sir Money [is a] powerful knight").

Is shocking to see how opinions change over time, I find some contradictory things about Ola and Fractal relationship, some food for thought:

Formerly he had an Ultra, in metalguiarist.org he had some Ultra presets under the name Fearedse, now this user is gone...in youtube you have many videos of Ola playing Fractal stuff very happy, in 2010 the Ultra, in 2011 he switched to Axe2, by the way he have some Axe2 presets in his web for download.

In the description of this 2012 video:

You can read "Thanks to Fractal Audio for letting me borrow an Axe Fx 2".

In 2013 his opinion was favorable:


I find that in the last 3 years the Axe2 had improved a lot, I wonder what make him change his mind:D

I think he prefers Bias these days. :D
 
I have heard from people like Ola Englund that the Axe Fx isn't as good as real amps. But isn't tone really subjective? Personally I think that Periphery has some of the best sounding guitar tones that I've heard on an album. I haven't bad much experience with real tube amps but I really do like my Axe tones more than what I've heard from some expensive tube amps. I know people say digital is not as good but I don't exactly agree. Thoughts?
The amp mods the AxeFx produces are excellent and usable in all situations and they keep getting better! But modeling/synthesizing should not be the only purpose of the AxeFx, perhaps the main purpose but not the only one. Many guitarist still use and love old tube amps and will likely continue to do so for many years to come. The new growth area for FAS in my view is reactive loadbox processing combined with FAS tone matching techniques, cab/IR, mic/sim, effects. For those who have not tried gear like the Torpedo Studio it gives new life to old tube amps. I currently own one and will be buying more. I would like to buy FAS if it had a digital loadbox but one isn't currently available. All tube amps, especially vintage amps, sound different even between multiple production units of the same model. So wouldn't a digital loadbox inside an AxeFx provide even more modeling/synthesizing data for the AxeFx tone matching process? All that said I will be getting more AxeFx units with or with out a digital loadbox, but it would be nice to have the option.
 
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I have heard from people like Ola Englund that the Axe Fx isn't as good as real amps. But isn't tone really subjective? Personally I think that Periphery has some of the best sounding guitar tones that I've heard on an album. I haven't bad much experience with real tube amps but I really do like my Axe tones more than what I've heard from some expensive tube amps. I know people say digital is not as good but I don't exactly agree. Thoughts?

We are seeing a generation coming of age, with serious up and coming young players who have never owned a tube amp--it's been all Line 6, Fender/Roland "modeling" products, etc. We are probably only a generation away from a place where "authentic tube modeling" is just a buzz phrase that means nothing except that it's 'supposed' to be a good thing. These kids will only want to emulate the sounds of their current heroes, and then tweak things (probably digitally) in a way that sounds good to them, regardless of what current boutique amp technology is making available for $6000+. My guess is that very few of them will have grown up owning Marshall/Bogner/Mesa/whatever products, and that comparison to them will be no more than an abstract concept.

So, at that point, with regard to 'authenticity,' all bets will be off. No one will care about sounds which are grounded in tubes or for that matter, analog amps--just whatever sounds awesome to those ears...
 
Thanks to Ola for not responding to the haters. I've seen him be active here, being hated on is not appropriate.


I've had my share of tube amps. I distinctly remember always being disappointed with my ability to get them to sound like the awesome recordings supposedly made with the same amps. I love the sound of recorded guitars. I get much more satisfaction from my AxeFx.

I've found that the key is finding the right cab sims for you. That is the main ingredient for the mix, comparable to mic selection and placement in the studio where pro's take days to get it exactly right. It's also why people are having trouble because of lack of knowledge and experience. They blame the modellers for not sounding good out of the box, but completely understand if a tech takes hours to set up in the studio. Take your time selecting your cabs in a similar manner and it will pay off in spades. Just be careful with the rabbit hole. It's extremely deep. People have gone lost in there.

Possibly that's why Ola likes his amps. They're set up exactly as he wants it, cabs and mics n' stuff. He can have his cake and eat it too. Maybe some of the haters are just turning slightly greenish. We all want a bit of that cake. Although I personally don't like metal music much.
 
There is no reason that presets, which are basically "bundled knowledge," are not commercially sold as much as IRs are. IRs require more resources and technical skill to acquire faithfully so I am grateful many engineers are providing us with these, but presets are often more valuable and are NOT being provided commercially except for by a distinct few such as Fremen. I don't understand why the community is so against this - we're too prideful in our ability to achieve our own sounds, not realizing that many tones are beyond our comprehension as musicians.

To the OP - the Axe FX can do anything you want it to do, honestly. I'm not just blindly saying that - it sounds professional when you get the right sounds and IRs.

I used to post my presets for sharing but stopped for a number of reasons, including:

* FW updates are coming fast & furious which make presets created under old presets need updates to stay accurate to what the intent of the preset was in the first place.
* Presets are a lot like real world setups. Unless the two players have the exact same guitars, pickups, techniques, and monitoring, you will get as different results as both EVH and Nugent playing through the same rig and not sounding the same.
* People have vastly different monitoring and monitoring environments which will affect perception of the presets. What may sound god-like in my environment may sound like a Line6 Spider in your environment.

Mind you, some people's presets translate better to different players and environments than other presets do, but you have a vocal population that do not understand that their setup/instrument/technique/monitoring combination may require them to actually tweak some things for it to sound "good" in their context. Instead of understanding the variables involved, they just declare your work as junk publicly.

That is one of the deterrents I see IMHO.
 
Love me some tube amps. Love me some Axe-fx II. I will argue that while the axe has always sounded great, for me it has been in the last three fw (with heavy emphasis on the last one) where the "feel" through a cab IR got to where I'm really happy, and the breakup finally felt identical to the amps being modeled in my direct recording presets - for me anyway.

This is all beside the point, mind you. One would think with all the options flying around we could stick to the "each to his own" viewpoint. But I guess the amps vs modelers debate is just proof in the absence of problems regarding immediate survival human beings will just make up things to be upset about.

I even saw one particularly angry public YouTube dude recently take a swipe at modeling by saying "if you need forty amps onstage you are an asshole".

I guess it's easier to be more upset about the things that you aren't than to be confident in the things that you are...
 
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