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How Do You Deal With Engineer Ignorance?

sam

Experienced
Tough to reason with someone who thinks they understand the tech but actually does not. When I have explained that I go direct and people have not understood why I don't mic up I explain that the speaker is just a flat full range monitor.

If they still don't understand I explain that the sound of the mic (and mic preamp) is already baked into the output tone. Doesn't make sense to "re-mic" a mic'd cab tone does it? Usually people get it at that point.
 

zombieritual

Inspired
at the two shows i've played with the axe so far both sound guys were pretty excited that i was going direct, i'm assuming because it made their job easier. also could've been that i already had a DI built into to my output panel on the bottom of my rack but either way
 

spikey

Experienced
Well I would think this is just the tip of the iceberg in opinionation rectomy... Doesn't matter who's right, the gauntlet has been thrown into the warm bathwater. One of the two will leave, and soon... And yes, I speak from experience :lol
 

Adman103

Experienced
I think your drummer is on to something... mic your PA speaker, then run it through the board to the PA... but then you could mike the mains PA... and run it back to the board...and then run it back to the...
ah hell. He should just stick to hitting things.
 

Rex

Legend!
...how do you guys deal with this kind of attitude, short of saying "Just shut the f*ck up and listen to how it sounds".
Depends on what you mean by "deal with." If you mean to get him to say you're right and he's wrong, there's plenty of posts in this thread that will help you. But sometimes, the best way to deal with a situation like that is to just let it go...drop it, and let the guy save face.
 

rdymond

New Member
Here's something you could try: Put a pair of headphones on him and let him listen to your sound through the headphones. Then A/B some presets with and without power amp and cab simulation, so he can see you manipulating the signal path and hear the difference at the same time. Chances are he will say something like "WOW! I heard what you were saying but I didn't really get it until I heard you swap cabinets, that is cool!" Or he may just grumble and give up.

cheers,
Robin.
 

spikey

Experienced
Getting him to do experimentation to prove himself wrong would require him to question his own logic... You can't do that if you're always right... ;)
 

Severed

Fractal Fanatic
I have had this conversation many times.

After giving it some thought, I just tell people that the Axe FX II models EVERTHING, the amp, the effects, the cab, AND the Microphone on the cab. Most people get it once you explain this, then it's a matter of convincing them to take 2 feeds for stereo... that's another story in the small bars and clubs.....lol. Lucky for us, my band has our own PA and Monitor rig. We do it all ourselves and hire a guy to run the desk and sound, but he has nothing to do with the setup, and our monitor rig is on stage controlled by us, so all he does is FOH and Lights. We have the same guy all the time, so he knows our sets, and every time it sounds better and better. It works very well this way. I am using a pair of Atomic CLR active wedges for my monitors, and I mix the entire band through the monitor rig so I get a polished stereo mix.
 
waste of time to argue. just play. if your tone sounds good to you on stage, that's enough, got more important things to worry about. venues with that kind of tech usually don't last long, give them a few years and they'll close down. play your songs well and just entertain the crowd.
 

blackcom

Inspired
Our live soundguyes loved the axe direct setup we ran. No mic bleed.

If someone asks ill say im not after the sound in my guitarcab but the particular IR choosen carefully over all the others.
 

BigD1977

Power User
No offense to your drummer, but he doesn't understand sound systems.

Tell him that would be like micing up the PA and can he envisage ANY scenario where this may be done. If tries to come up with one then do what I do. Consider it, and then inform him that he's talking through his arse and thank whatever god you pray to that he is your drummer instead of your engineer. :D

This is what gives engineers a bad name.
 

TheOtherDave

Inspired
I've been through this as well. You will have to have the same conversation with club engineers so don't worry about not being able to convince your drummer. Just laugh and say "Hopefully the engineers we work with will be more knowledgeable about modern technology." He'll like that :)
I am a club engineer, and I can't imagine telling someone that I'm going to mic up their FRFR "cab". I'll even take the direct outs off an open-back Tech 21 Power Engine (they have speaker emulated outputs). I mean if the guy shows up and says, "Yeah, I've got an amp over there that you'll probably want to mic up at some point", then I'll do it my way. But if the guitarist walks in and the cab has a spike tape square on the grill with an arrow and a sign that says "SM57 goes here", then an SM57 goes there, and that's the end of it (unless I've got spare channels, in which case an SM7 or RE320 gets broken out and we have ourselves a stereo party).
 

trancegodz

Power User
I wouldn't even discuss it with him. Ignore him and do what works best for you. If he pushes the issue tell him to shut up and play his drums. You're the guitar player not him.
 

laughyouraxeoff

Experienced
Yeah like someone else said, he's a drummer enough said:) Also, why would he not allow you to show him the sounds and play a show with it like you want, without trying to tell you how. I mean you're the guitarist he is not and there is a reason for that. That is like a golf player telling a football player how to catch a football haha.
 
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