How Do You Deal With Engineer Ignorance?

You pedants still arguing over engineer, do yourselves a favor. Start listing the school accreditation of the Audio Engineers that recorded all your favorite albums of the 60's, 70's, and 80's.

Maybe then you'll start getting the point of how pointless your line of logic is, or why I dismiss it as pedantic. The reality is, Audio Engineer has two meanings. You might not like one, but it doesn't negate it. Just makes you pedantic.
 
I had a sound guy want to mic up my RCF-310a ("for sizzle" as he was "sure" he was going to need it) as well as use the DI from the AFX. I told him it wouldn't be necessary, etc. but just let him do his thing since he was insistent. He found out pretty quickly he didn't need to mix in the mic, just a slightly EQ'd DI channel was all that was required. I guess perhaps that's one way to deal with people who have hardnosed opinions; just demonstrate that adding a mic is overkill and superfluous. If he is objective and truly 'knows sound' he'll agree with that...
 
ArrowHead said:
You pedants still arguing over engineer, do yourselves a favor. Start listing the school accreditation of the Audio Engineers that recorded all your favorite albums of the 60's, 70's, and 80's.

Maybe then you'll start getting the point of how pointless your line of logic is, or why I dismiss it as pedantic. The reality is, Audio Engineer has two meanings. You might not like one, but it doesn't negate it. Just makes you pedantic.
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Agreed about the first point. A qualification is no measure of real world effectiveness.

But if it was pointless I could call my dog an engineer and expect him to design a system. How pointless would that line of thought be?

I'd rather be pedantic than roughshod any day. :)
 
Like I said, I know a few engineers (that can't find where they left their car in a Walmart parking lot). Doesn't make them stupid by any means. They can and do design circles around me. But..., It does suggest losing sight of current events however unimportant they may be... :lol
 
The drummer in my band loves my AxeI II. Last sound check he was raving about how awesome my guitar was sounding (he was standing out front while I was doing a line check). I proceeded to tell him that my stage rig was not even switched on and he was only hearing the DI going to FOH. He didn't quite understand but continued to rave about my tone. I did actually LOL. There are two guitarist in our band, the other uses a valve amp FWIW. I do not have the same problem as the OP.
 
Not taking away what the "so called engineers" produced, that was great BUT it has nothing to do with what there title is. There still not Engineers, there "using" equipment engineers have designed.
 
One last time, and then I cave:

An "Audio Engineer" is the title one working in a studio doing the hands on stuff goes by. Walk into any studio, it's what they're called. It's what they've always been called. This is why, when you look up the definition of Audio Engineer, you find knob twister a valid definition.

An "Audio Engineer" is also someone who designs circuits.

Neither requires an education, although it helps. Neither requires skill, talent, or good results. But it helps.

You can rally all you like about bad engineers calling themselves engineers, but the fact is IT'S A VALID TITLE, and currently the only one I know of used commonly in the industry.

Sorry you guys with degrees are hurt so badly by it, but then it's hard not to get your panties twisted about SOMETHING when you're a pedant.
 
BigD1977 said:
Agreed about the first point. A qualification is no measure of real world effectiveness.

But if it was pointless I could call my dog an engineer and expect him to design a system. How pointless would that line of thought be?
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You've missed the point - it's pointless to try and force one definition over the other. BOTH are "audio engineers" - those who have valuable educations and credential, and those that simply twiddle knobs intuitively. And in this industry, the degree does NOT tend to be the qualifier of how good one is at the job.

If your doggie twiddles knobs, he's an audio engineer. That's the title. He's a shitty engineer, no doubt, but he's still an engineer. He's shitty because he's shitty, not because he's misusing the title, or not carrying the correct credentials.

A quote that says it better than I have:

"Engineering is the application of scientific, economic, social, and practical knowledge in order to design, build, and maintain structures, machines, devices, systems, materials and processes

One who practices engineering is called an engineer, and those licensed to do so may have more formal designations such as Professional Engineer, Federal Aviation Administration Designated Engineering Representative, Chartered Engineer, Incorporated Engineer, Ingenieur or European Engineer."
 
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Arrowhead, excuse me while I laugh directly in your face!!! LMAO!!!! Only person getting his panties in a knot seems to be you. :D

I don't have an engineering degree. I do have a level 7 qualification in both fields (equivalent of a degree). Am I an engineer? I don't really care. LOL!!! I make money doing it and people keep giving me work! I've designed studios and systems and installed them.

Thing is, when you're actually good at it, you don't give a toss what people call you because you're the one making the bucks.

One small note: "....to design build and maintain...." None of these words means to just use, therefore one who uses the systems is not an engineer by default. That would be ridiculous! That would mean that a surgeon would be a scalpel engineer!!! :D

Onward...!!!!! :D

Edit: Laughing in your face was about your dog comment..... like, seriously??? LOL!!! He's one dumb mutt, and I'm not sure what that says about engineers! :) No harm, dude, no offense was intended..... I read it back and it does read as offensive, so apologies about that.
 
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ArrowHead said:
One who practices engineering is called an engineer, and those licensed to do so may have more formal designations such as Professional Engineer, Federal Aviation Administration Designated Engineering Representative, Chartered Engineer, Incorporated Engineer, Ingenieur or European Engineer."
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I dont have a degree either - which is why I call myself a technician not an engineer. Either way - the above statement does not refer to so called "sound engineers" - because they are not practising engineering:

en·gi·neer·ing [en-juh-neer-ing] Show IPA
noun
1.
the art or science of making practical application of the knowledge of pure sciences, as physics or chemistry, as in the construction of engines, bridges, buildings, mines, ships, and chemical plants.
2.
the action, work, or profession of an engineer.

which isnt what they do - or even:

en·gi·neer [en-juh-neer] Show IPA
noun
1.
a person trained and skilled in the design, construction, and use of engines or machines, or in any of various branches of engineering: a mechanical engineer; a civil engineer.
2.
a person who operates or is in charge of an engine.
3.
Also called locomotive engineer. Railroads. a person who operates or is in charge of a locomotive.
4.
a member of an army, navy, or air force specially trained in engineering work.

Which again - they arnt.

If I really wanted to be pedantic - there not audio engineers anyway - there term as far as im aware is "sound engineers". This is again a bit of a misnoma as the term "engineer" has to do with physical things ie machines, which sound isnt.
 
paulmapp8306 said:
If I really wanted to be pedantic - there not audio engineers anyway - there term as far as im aware is "sound engineers". This is again a bit of a misnoma as the term "engineer" has to do with physical things ie machines, which sound isnt.
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You had me right up until that last statement. Sound is a physical thing. It's all about wave propogation through a physical medium. In school, one of my engineering professors specialized in acoustics. There really are sound engineers.
 
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