i find if you're not used to FRFR, standing directly in front of it can sound a bit harsh. set the switch on the CLR to backline and stand the CLR like a cab (not a monitor wedge) so you're not listening directly on axis
That's how I run it...I've actually tried all 3 ways. It sounds the same each way to me. It sounds good but something is missing and the feel is definitely not there.i find if you're not used to FRFR, standing directly in front of it can sound a bit harsh. set the switch on the CLR to backline and stand the CLR like a cab (not a monitor wedge) so you're not listening directly on axis
The lesser reverb doesn't sound lesser and if you were using you traditional amp you would not have stereo fx.
There are things we learn to live with. Two topics beaten to death 10x over around here is the audio gap and Axe/Ax tone via FRFR or direct to FOH vs amp in the room sound. Some guys just can't deal with it. It is mostly a mental block since clearly so many guys get killer tones going direct and often ppl who say they don't like direct like the sound of other peoples stuff going FRFR. These things Re just part of what comes with the FAS package and in the need for some folks they just end up. It wanting the FAS package and it is understandable
The CLR was the best solution for me until I got the Friedman ASM 12. I read the reviews on the Friedman "Not being true FRFR" and "artificially bass heavy" and was put off for awhile...then I decided to give it a try. Put it side by side and blasted both. THE ASM was the clear better option for me. IT JUST SOUNDS RIGHT..like the real vintage Marshalls, Fenders, and Voxes etc. that I have had. That's my sound-vintage, not high gain. LOVE IT. So glad I gave it a try. The CLR sounded really boxy to me in comparison. Just my opinion.Lately, I've haven't been having good luck with getting any kind of tone from the AX8 I'm happy with. I'm running it into my CLR but I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the CLR is what I'm not liking. Every amp model/cab combination sounds "synthetic" to me coming from the CLR. This happened with my Amplifire also. By synthetic, I mean not natural sounding to my ears. It doesn't sound like an amp/cab mic'd up to me.
Today, I went back to my 5153 head and cab by itself. It sounded SO good. Nothing at all like what I hear from the AX8/CLR using the same amp/cab combo. It has life, it breathes and more.
Then I ran the AX8 in 4CM (like I did when I got the AX8) and it was still good just using the FX, although I can hear some tone sucking (I know the FX8 is made for this type of thing...not complaining).
I then tried the AX8's amps using my cab and 5153 for power. Sounded MUCH better than what I hear from the CLR. It sounds like an amp to me. I've been also fighting the tone in my In ears...direct from the AX8 to the board and then to me, it sounds nothing like it does out front. Very uninspiring. I've had this issue with other direct amps though so I know it's not the AX8.
I think I'm pinpointing that I just don't like FRFR...no matter the speaker. I've also tried the alto212 and a Friedman. Same issue with both...it doesn't sound or feel like it does when I play through my amp. Through good studio monitors, it does improve but the amp/cab still sounds better to me.
I've bought a handful of IR packs from ownhammer lately, hoping this would help. While these IRs do sound good through my small computer monitors, through the CLR, it's still not what I like to hear. It's getting pretty frustrating because I'm back to tweaking too much and not playing as much. When I had my Kemper, I hardly tweaked but I also didn't use a CLR.
Not sure what I'm going to do. I have this weekend off as my next gig isn't until the 15th. I think what I'm finding is that I don't prefer tone that is pressed against my ear drums (via IEM, which I mostly have to use) or doesn't have that cab "space" behind me. I'm also having trouble finding amp options that do what I need without either hitting the CPU limits or having to X/Y amps and have that gap. I do hear it when using IEMs and it can throw you off...the whole band uses them sometimes and everyone hears it. I've always used different amps or channels for my rig in the past.
Anyone else fighting this type of thing with your AX8/Axe-Fx/whatever modeler?
I use either a CLR or iems exclusively and love both solutions. Some guys having CPU issues have chosen to run a reverb pedal into their Ax and that gives lots of CPU backYou're right but it doesn't work for everyone. My FOH direct tone is fine...but it's fine with a real amp too. Hitting CPU limits is bothersome for me though. I'm still trying to find a way around that where I don't need 20-30 presets for a show. Running stereo out direct, I do prefer to have stereo FX but I've been living without it.
Problem is I've been trying this for well over 6 months now...first with the amplifire and now the AX8. In both cases, the CLR sounds weird to me. It's not a matter of how far back it is or close...it's just different from the traditional setup that I like and am used to. I've been using modelers for 8-10 years now but usually through a real cab. I think I'm finding I prefer that sound.FRFR backline coming from close behind you doesn't always sound right until you go out front and hear it in more context with the rest of the band .... so it's your own ears that you need to re-educate for short throw stage work .... and that doesn't happen after a few songs ..... more like a few gigs and rehearsals.
For a small room gig where backline is 95% of what the audience hear it's less stress to just use conventional cabs and fit in with the rest of the band vibe in my opinion ... that's why I chose to use a separate power amp (Matrix GT1000FX) and have passive FRFR/Conventional cabs ... allows me both FRFR and conventional cab setups easily ...... all that changes is what pair of cabs I bring to the gig.
It's all personal enjoyment in any case - for the most part the average bar gig audience don't give a damn after a few beers and the girls get up to dance.
Funny you say that because I spent a couple of hours tonight using the 44 into my 412...it sounded pretty good! I then switched back to the CLR and it's no contest. It sounds fake/synthetic to my ears. I tried a bunch of different IRs...close mic'd, far field, in between, blends, etc...nothing sounded natural to me. Looks like I'll be using a cab for gigs. I'm tempted to just use the 44, it's loud enough, but I don't know the reliability of it yet.I was fighting my CLR too when playing live until I bought a 44mag pedal (which you have anyways) and started bringing a 2x12 for a backline. Now I have the CLR up front and the 2x12 behind me. I have total control over my stage mix and it's been awesome. I'd give that a try
My experience also. The ASM 12 sounded better to me too...The CLR was the best solution for me until I got the Friedman ASM 12. I read the reviews on the Friedman "Not being true FRFR" and "artificially bass heavy" and was put off for awhile...then I decided to give it a try. Put it side by side and blasted both. THE ASM was the clear better option for me. IT JUST SOUNDS RIGHT..like the real vintage Marshalls, Fenders, and Voxes etc. that I have had. That's my sound-vintage, not high gain. LOVE IT. So glad I gave it a try. The CLR sounded really boxy to me in comparison. Just my opinion.
Yeah my preset was NOT created for live. The sound I use live through my 25 watt 4x12 greenback cab is way different. For what it's worth, I HATE FRFR! In my opinion, one of the things that keeps my tone feeling and sounding like an amp live, is me going through my cab. There's just something about it that I like so much better. But in the studio, I have my own little system that works for me and really like the tones I'm getting without mic'ing a thing.I've tried both of their presets. While they sound good, they have that same feel/sound through the CLR. I really think it's the FRFR part that I'm not liking.
I just recently discovered a "recipe" to a pretty good amp in the room emulation with my clr: take a room or far field IR (or in alternative one that has a balanced response across the spectrum) of your preferred cab, load it in cab lab (if you have it) and turn up smoothing parameter (I usually set it between 7 and 10). This for me often works wonders but not always, it depends on the cab, in my experience it's great with ownhammer and taf IRs, not so great with redwirez.Funny you say that because I spent a couple of hours tonight using the 44 into my 412...it sounded pretty good! I then switched back to the CLR and it's no contest. It sounds fake/synthetic to my ears. I tried a bunch of different IRs...close mic'd, far field, in between, blends, etc...nothing sounded natural to me. Looks like I'll be using a cab for gigs. I'm tempted to just use the 44, it's loud enough, but I don't know the reliability of it yet.
Now that's a clever idea. Seems to me some enterprising soul could make a product out of an idea like that, hint, hint...I haven't read the whole thread so maybe this was already mentioned. I use a Matrix GM50 plate amp that I mounted in my guitar cab to convert it into an active cab. It works great, it added very little weight to the cab and it saves me from needing to haul a power amp. Then I simply turn the cab sim off on the signal going to my guitar cab and I send the whole signal (with the cab sim) to the mains. This is really easy to do with the AX8 and it sounds fantastic, using the guitar cab makes it sound and feel just like playing the actual amp on stage, and you don't need to mess with mic'ing your guitar cab so you get consistent tone going to the mains every time.
Quality IEM makes all the difference to me. Also depends on the headphone amp being used. For example I have used an Aviom and a P16 and with the same pair of IEM I prefer the sound of the P16. It is brighter sounding than my tone sounds through FOH but I can live with itMany great points here...thank you! At this point, I'm going to try the amp/cab for on stage but also send the direct signal from the AX8 to FOH so the audience gets the consistent tone. The next issue is creating presets on the AX8 that don't hit the CPU limit...it's been a battle with that. I could create presets for songs but we sometimes go from song to song with no stop. Switching to the next song while holding the end chord of the previous song definitely has the audio gap that the audience WILL hear. Also, getting the FOH sound to sound good in my IEMs is another battle. Sounds great out front but terrible in the ears...that's a topic for another day.