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Fighting my CLR

skyhighrocks

Inspired
To add...

9 times out of 10, if I'm playing a gig with great wedges, monitors, side fills, etc and not using IEMs on a big stage, I'm going to use my amp/cab with the AX8.

If I have to use the CLR and IEMs, that's where it gets iffy for me. I am going to try that Behringer XR16 so I can have control over my feed on stage to see if that helps what I hear in my ears.
 

Tremonti

Fractal Fanatic
FRFR is just not the same. Traditional head/cab you hear the sound from a bandwidth-restricted speaker at, say, 10 ft. In a typical modeler setup you are hearing what the "mic heard" when the IR was made and that mic was pushed up against the grill cloth.

One approach is to use "far field" IRs which are obtained using a measurement mic at a typical listening distance and angle. These are rare. There are a couple stock far-field IRs. They are indicated by (JM) for Jay Mitchell, who created them.

Even then it's still not the same because when you are using a traditional setup you move around while playing and the tone changes based on the angle. With a far-field IR the tone doesn't change with angle.

When I was gigging I used a power amp and cab behind me and sent the XLR outputs to FOH. More gear to lug but best of both worlds: traditional backline sound, consistent FOH sound.
Did you shoot IR of your cab and just use that across all patches to FOH?
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
Forgot about this thread...I ended up selling the AX8 and went back to traditional amp/cab setup with my own personal IEM mixer/system. I mic my cab with 2 mics and it sounds great to me. I could not achieve that going direct. I would LOVE an FX8 to use with the Friedman I have coming but it's not in the budget right now.
 

JRod4928

Experienced
Lately, I've haven't been having good luck with getting any kind of tone from the AX8 I'm happy with. I'm running it into my CLR but I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the CLR is what I'm not liking. Every amp model/cab combination sounds "synthetic" to me coming from the CLR. This happened with my Amplifire also. By synthetic, I mean not natural sounding to my ears. It doesn't sound like an amp/cab mic'd up to me.

Today, I went back to my 5153 head and cab by itself. It sounded SO good. Nothing at all like what I hear from the AX8/CLR using the same amp/cab combo. It has life, it breathes and more.

Then I ran the AX8 in 4CM (like I did when I got the AX8) and it was still good just using the FX, although I can hear some tone sucking (I know the FX8 is made for this type of thing...not complaining).

I then tried the AX8's amps using my cab and 5153 for power. Sounded MUCH better than what I hear from the CLR. It sounds like an amp to me. I've been also fighting the tone in my In ears...direct from the AX8 to the board and then to me, it sounds nothing like it does out front. Very uninspiring. I've had this issue with other direct amps though so I know it's not the AX8.

I think I'm pinpointing that I just don't like FRFR...no matter the speaker. I've also tried the alto212 and a Friedman. Same issue with both...it doesn't sound or feel like it does when I play through my amp. Through good studio monitors, it does improve but the amp/cab still sounds better to me.

I've bought a handful of IR packs from ownhammer lately, hoping this would help. While these IRs do sound good through my small computer monitors, through the CLR, it's still not what I like to hear. It's getting pretty frustrating because I'm back to tweaking too much and not playing as much. When I had my Kemper, I hardly tweaked but I also didn't use a CLR.

Not sure what I'm going to do. I have this weekend off as my next gig isn't until the 15th. I think what I'm finding is that I don't prefer tone that is pressed against my ear drums (via IEM, which I mostly have to use) or doesn't have that cab "space" behind me. I'm also having trouble finding amp options that do what I need without either hitting the CPU limits or having to X/Y amps and have that gap. I do hear it when using IEMs and it can throw you off...the whole band uses them sometimes and everyone hears it. I've always used different amps or channels for my rig in the past.

Anyone else fighting this type of thing with your AX8/Axe-Fx/whatever modeler?
I haven't read the convo, but I've had a similar experience... I attribute it to the natural way a guitar speaker distorts when turned to higher volume, and the delivery of that sound through only one speaker that handles all frequencies (as opposed to a sub and tweeter that FRFR uses)...sure it's not flat response, but it's the natural guitar speaker response that we've grown accustomed to... this would explain why it sounds good when you use the AX8 as a pre-amp to your 5153 cab.

Personally, I've bought myself a 1x12 Tech 21 Power Engine and replaced the speaker with a Celestion Creamback... I put an fx-loop block in each of my presets that I run directly to the 1x12 that I use as my monitor. I leave the cab emulation on and send the main OUT to FOH with a creamback IR cab block... I have a set of studio monitors to tweak my tones so that the FOH sounds good, but I get to hear myself using the 1x12, which is the best of both worlds for me... Another option would be to mic the 1x12, but I find it easier to do what I just explained.
 

Feflicker

Member
To add a different perspective, and to illustrate how we all hear things differently, the MAIN reason I have loved my AX8 has been the ability to make my guitar sound like the record, precise, polished, even in a live rehearsal setting.

I have never really liked the "live room guitar with a real amp and cabinet" sound. I tried every amp, speaker, etc. No matter what I did I found the guitar amp very directional, and very hard to emulate the album tones I have lusted after my entire playing career. The AX8 finally gave me the sound I wanted when I played guitar, and the control I craved, which is a little artificial put in the perspective of what a real guitar/amp sound like in a room. I think I am in the minority here, but I felt I'd share my experience/perspective.
 

flying_walrus

Experienced
To add a different perspective, and to illustrate how we all hear things differently, the MAIN reason I have loved my AX8 has been the ability to make my guitar sound like the record, precise, polished, even in a live rehearsal setting.

I have never really liked the "live room guitar with a real amp and cabinet" sound. I tried every amp, speaker, etc. No matter what I did I found the guitar amp very directional, and very hard to emulate the album tones I have lusted after my entire playing career. The AX8 finally gave me the sound I wanted when I played guitar, and the control I craved, which is a little artificial put in the perspective of what a real guitar/amp sound like in a room. I think I am in the minority here, but I felt I'd share my experience/perspective.
I don't think you're in the minority, I think the rest of us just don't bother to respond very often.

I'm always surprised when someone has a good live sound. there are so many variables that go into it... for example - watch the Premier Guitar Rig rundown with AC/DC. they're touring with 20-30 heads, a huge power regulator, and a full time amp technician. Maybe Angus Young can afford that, but I can't. Whatever I can do to have a consistent, good sound from day to day I will do.
 
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