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Fighting my CLR

skyhighrocks

Inspired
Lately, I've haven't been having good luck with getting any kind of tone from the AX8 I'm happy with. I'm running it into my CLR but I think I'm coming to the conclusion that the CLR is what I'm not liking. Every amp model/cab combination sounds "synthetic" to me coming from the CLR. This happened with my Amplifire also. By synthetic, I mean not natural sounding to my ears. It doesn't sound like an amp/cab mic'd up to me.

Today, I went back to my 5153 head and cab by itself. It sounded SO good. Nothing at all like what I hear from the AX8/CLR using the same amp/cab combo. It has life, it breathes and more.

Then I ran the AX8 in 4CM (like I did when I got the AX8) and it was still good just using the FX, although I can hear some tone sucking (I know the FX8 is made for this type of thing...not complaining).

I then tried the AX8's amps using my cab and 5153 for power. Sounded MUCH better than what I hear from the CLR. It sounds like an amp to me. I've been also fighting the tone in my In ears...direct from the AX8 to the board and then to me, it sounds nothing like it does out front. Very uninspiring. I've had this issue with other direct amps though so I know it's not the AX8.

I think I'm pinpointing that I just don't like FRFR...no matter the speaker. I've also tried the alto212 and a Friedman. Same issue with both...it doesn't sound or feel like it does when I play through my amp. Through good studio monitors, it does improve but the amp/cab still sounds better to me.

I've bought a handful of IR packs from ownhammer lately, hoping this would help. While these IRs do sound good through my small computer monitors, through the CLR, it's still not what I like to hear. It's getting pretty frustrating because I'm back to tweaking too much and not playing as much. When I had my Kemper, I hardly tweaked but I also didn't use a CLR.

Not sure what I'm going to do. I have this weekend off as my next gig isn't until the 15th. I think what I'm finding is that I don't prefer tone that is pressed against my ear drums (via IEM, which I mostly have to use) or doesn't have that cab "space" behind me. I'm also having trouble finding amp options that do what I need without either hitting the CPU limits or having to X/Y amps and have that gap. I do hear it when using IEMs and it can throw you off...the whole band uses them sometimes and everyone hears it. I've always used different amps or channels for my rig in the past.

Anyone else fighting this type of thing with your AX8/Axe-Fx/whatever modeler?
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
I really like the CLR.

But I have never liked in ears. When I don't have a speaker on stage, the guitar feels uninspiring.

Unfortunately, we have to use the in ears a lot. I sing MUCH better but my playing suffers because I hate having the guitar tone pressed against my ear drums. I like having a cab behind me...back 10-20 feet and feel and hear it that way. The CLR sounds and feels nothing like a cab to me, whgich is part of my problem.
 
I find that its difficult to find cabs that sound real good,im using just a few ones,
and actually running them on normal quality,not high as this seems to make them sound
more ambient and artificial,normal mode to me is warmer and more like my amps,
wierd right :) but try it.
 

levipeto

Fractal Fanatic
"It doesn't sound like an amp/cab mic'd up to me."

"I then tried the AX8's amps using my cab and 5153 for power. Sounded MUCH better than what I hear from the CLR"

Are you talking about mic'd or not mic'd in the second statement?
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
I find that its difficult to find cabs that sound real good,im using just a few ones,
and actually running them on normal quality,not high as this seems to make them sound
more ambient and artificial,normal mode to me is warmer and more like my amps,
wierd right :) but try it.
Believe me...I've tried just about every configuration!
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
"It doesn't sound like an amp/cab mic'd up to me."

"I then tried the AX8's amps using my cab and 5153 for power. Sounded MUCH better than what I hear from the CLR"

Are you talking about mic'd or not mic'd in the second statement?

Not mic'd ( probably said that wrong in the OP)..I put the CLR and my amp/cab side by side at same volumes and tried a/b'ing both. The CLR doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the real thing to my ears. And by "real thing", I mean theAX8 amp model into the head for power and into the real cab, not the actual amp's preamp.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
Unfortunately, we have to use the in ears a lot. I sing MUCH better but my playing suffers because I hate having the guitar tone pressed against my ear drums. I like having a cab behind me...back 10-20 feet and feel and hear it that way. The CLR sounds and feels nothing like a cab to me, whgich is part of my problem.
I use a hypercardioid vocal mic and put the CLR in the mic null off angle but in tight with my mic stand. Usually facing away from the band because I like to crank it lol.

I run a my vocal split, my guitar split, the lead singers guitar split and a mono monitor mix into a Rane rack mount mixer and out to a single CLR. So I have "more me" for my vocal and guitar.

It sounds best when I dedicate a separate CLR just for guitar because then I can crank the guitar. When I mix vocals and guitar, I always have the vocals louder to keep pitch.

From my experience, I think it's the close miced IR's that make the difference in the sound of a amp/cab vs. a wedge. I settle in on one or two IR's for a whole run of shows and don't fiddle with it much.

On the side, I mess around with different stuff but keep my show presets using one or two IR's usually a little on the dark side. Less ear fatigue.
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
I use a hypercardioid vocal mic and put the CLR in the mic null off angle but in tight with my mic stand. Usually facing away from the band because I like to crank it lol.

I run a my vocal split, my guitar split, the lead singers guitar split and a mono monitor mix into a Rane rack mount mixer and out to a single CLR. So I have "more me" for my vocal and guitar.

It sounds best when I dedicate a separate CLR just for guitar because then I can crank the guitar. When I mix vocals and guitar, I always have the vocals louder to keep pitch.

From my experience, I think it's the close miced IR's that make the difference in the sound of a amp/cab vs. a wedge. I settle in on one or two IR's for a whole run of shows and don't fiddle with it much.

On the side, I mess around with different stuff but keep my show presets using one or two IR's usually a little on the dark side. Less ear fatigue.

I know what you're saying but my issue is the overall sound coming from the CLR, whether it's as a wedge, backline or whatever. I have tried it in different spots on stage and get the same result. The sound from it doesn't sound natural to me. It's not a volume thing or placement thing.
 

levipeto

Fractal Fanatic
Not mic'd..I put the CLR and my amp/cab side by side at same volumes and tried a/b'ing both. The CLR doesn't sound anywhere near as good as the real thing to my ears.
Ok. Just wanted to make sure. I agree with that. I love the raw amp/cab combination better, but with IRs CLR is the best so far for me
 
the dynamics buttom on the advanced page of amp block has been my goto tweak,
but to get the feel of a real cab is hard,thats for sure,also i seem to low cut all the cabs,
and that dosent make any sense since i would never low cut my real amps :)
My Shiva is killing the ax every day lol.
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
the dynamics buttom on the advanced page of amp block has been my goto tweak,
but to get the feel of a real cab is hard,thats for sure,also i seem to low cut all the cabs,
and that dosent make any sense since i would never low cut my real amps :)
My Shiva is killing the ax every day lol.
Yup, I've been to the advanced pages to tweak and try different things, tried some low and high cuts on the cabs, etc...while it improves the sound a bit, there's still something about what the CLR is projecting and how it feels playing through it that I'm struggling with.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I know what you're saying but my issue is the overall sound coming from the CLR, whether it's as a wedge, backline or whatever. I have tried it in different spots on stage and get the same result. The sound from it doesn't sound natural to me. It's not a volume thing or placement thing.
I meant you might never be happy with close mic'ed IR's in a powered speaker vs. a cab.

I think for some people, using a power amp -> guitar cab is just what they prefer. I really like it but don't want to transport the gear.
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
I meant you might never be happy with close mic'ed IR's in a powered speaker vs. a cab.

I think for some people, using a power amp -> guitar cab is just what they prefer. I really like it but don't want to transport the gear.
It's starting to look that way. I'm wondering if I should have went with the FX8 instead....but I like the amp models.
 
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