1. We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.
    Dismiss Notice

Fighting my CLR

Discussion in 'AX8 Discussion' started by skyhighrocks, Oct 4, 2016.

  1. FractalAudio

    FractalAudio
    Expand Collapse
    Administrator
    Fractal Audio Systems Moderator

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Messages:
    12,937
    Likes Received:
    85,456
    FRFR is just not the same. Traditional head/cab you hear the sound from a bandwidth-restricted speaker at, say, 10 ft. In a typical modeler setup you are hearing what the "mic heard" when the IR was made and that mic was pushed up against the grill cloth.

    One approach is to use "far field" IRs which are obtained using a measurement mic at a typical listening distance and angle. These are rare. There are a couple stock far-field IRs. They are indicated by (JM) for Jay Mitchell, who created them.

    Even then it's still not the same because when you are using a traditional setup you move around while playing and the tone changes based on the angle. With a far-field IR the tone doesn't change with angle.

    When I was gigging I used a power amp and cab behind me and sent the XLR outputs to FOH. More gear to lug but best of both worlds: traditional backline sound, consistent FOH sound.
     
    PumpkinKing86, lp59, muudrock and 4 others like this.
  2. skyhighrocks

    skyhighrocks
    Expand Collapse
    Inspired

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    275
    This is what I'm thinking as well. As much as I love the convenience of bringing less gear, I'm not playing as well because I'm not liking what I'm hearing. My other problem is finding/creating a preset that will get me what I need live without the switching gap being there and the CPU not being used up too quickly. My typical rig needs phaser, flanger, drive, wah, amp, filter, 2 delays, pitch block and reverb...I can't make that happen without using the lesser reverb and mono FX.
     
    AminorZmajor, bishop5150 and levipeto like this.
  3. bishop5150

    bishop5150
    Expand Collapse
    Fractal Fanatic

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,583
    Likes Received:
    4,581
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    You either get used to the FRFR sound onstage or you don't. It really is that simple. I thought I would have a hard time but I didn't and I was shocked by that. For me, at this point in the game, I just need to be able to hear myself onstage. Between my personal wedges I use as back line and the front stage monitors I can hear myself fine and dig the sound. But everybody's different and you have to decide what's best for you and what makes you happy. Maybe find ya a nice sounding 2x12 cab instead of the 4x12 to lighten your load in and load out?
     
  4. skyhighrocks

    skyhighrocks
    Expand Collapse
    Inspired

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    275
    I do have a 212 here...has 75 and a v30 in it. I don't mind hauling a 412...but yeah, for the smaller shows, the 212 will work. I'm still experimenting! Now I need to find a tone/preset that will do everything I need. I can create a tone that sounds good but it's just a one trick pony. I need more flexibility without having to change presets every song.
     
    bishop5150 likes this.
  5. barhrecords

    barhrecords
    Expand Collapse
    Axe-Master

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,968
    Likes Received:
    5,891
    Location:
    34.673, -86.745
    I've played a few shows with a Fractal -> Crown Power Amp -> 2x12

    Both a Marshall 2x12 (loaded with GT12t-75's I think?) and an open back Twin style cab with Weber Ceramics.

    Sounds and feels incredible. It's just too much kit for me unless the show specifically calls for a backline for looks.
     
    bishop5150 and skyhighrocks like this.
  6. #26 yek, Oct 4, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
    yek

    yek
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    20,903
    Likes Received:
    24,702
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    +1

    That's what I do. Not that much more to carry: Port City 1x12 (or whatever is present at the venue) and Fryette Power Station 2. Couldn't be happier. Still prefer it over FR monitoring, though that works fine for me too (with copious low- and high-passing).
     
    ejecta and skyhighrocks like this.
  7. bishop5150

    bishop5150
    Expand Collapse
    Fractal Fanatic

    Joined:
    Sep 19, 2013
    Messages:
    2,583
    Likes Received:
    4,581
    Location:
    Houston, TX
    Also, have you tried experimenting with Global output 2 EQ to adjust the tone going to your CLR's? For me, I set them like backline and use Global Out 2 EQ to give them a pretty descent low end bump so I have a nice thump on stage coming from them.
     
  8. skyhighrocks

    skyhighrocks
    Expand Collapse
    Inspired

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    275

    Looks like I'm going in the right direction. I even read through your entire PDF with settings advice/cab advice and tried most of it...but the CLR seems to be the issue for me.
     
  9. skyhighrocks

    skyhighrocks
    Expand Collapse
    Inspired

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    275

    It's hard to explain...it's not an EQ thing. It's just the tone the CLR gives out and the feel of it. It's not natural to me. Especially for more bluesy type stuff...it's too instant if that makes sense. I lose sustain and feel.
     
    bishop5150 likes this.
  10. barhrecords

    barhrecords
    Expand Collapse
    Axe-Master

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,968
    Likes Received:
    5,891
    Location:
    34.673, -86.745
    I just skimmed the Power Station II manual. That looks impressive.

    http://www.fryette.com/content/Power_Station_Manual_Eng_Rev1.pdf

    Do you find the 50W RMS power enough?
     
  11. yek

    yek
    Expand Collapse
    Moderator
    Moderator

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    20,903
    Likes Received:
    24,702
    Location:
    The Netherlands
    Loved the Matrix GT1000FX (still have it) but the PS is an improvement.
    PS I or II, doesn't matter. Volume (50 "tube" watts) is no problem at all, for me.

    The Matrix is less weight and no tubes means less maintenance.
     
  12. pat6969

    pat6969
    Expand Collapse
    Inspired

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    228
    Maybe it's the CLR? I know a lot of guys like them but I simply didn't. I found it hollow sounding and didn't like the top end when I turned it up. It's obviously a good monitor or guys wouldn't gush over them, for me it didn't work. Have you auditioned others in depth? I use my cab cuts at 75 and 6000 and that gets me close to "amp in room", not perfect, but close.
     
    skyhighrocks likes this.
  13. skyhighrocks

    skyhighrocks
    Expand Collapse
    Inspired

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    275
    That's the conclusion I'm coming to. I've tried an Alto 212 and the Friedman as well...same thing. The FRFR sound is not pleasing to my ears.
     
  14. pat6969

    pat6969
    Expand Collapse
    Inspired

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2015
    Messages:
    385
    Likes Received:
    228
    Have you tried the aggressive high cut, around 6000?
     
    skyhighrocks likes this.
  15. barhrecords

    barhrecords
    Expand Collapse
    Axe-Master

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,968
    Likes Received:
    5,891
    Location:
    34.673, -86.745
    It's legit that some don't bond with FRFR for live use.

    In cases where I'm hitting a wall like this, I use full program material to get my ears adjusted. I playback a track that I know how it should sound. And see if the rig is working right or what not.
     
    mmpete and bishop5150 like this.
  16. #36 cragginshred, Oct 4, 2016
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2016
    cragginshred

    cragginshred
    Expand Collapse
    Fractal Fanatic

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2011
    Messages:
    2,214
    Likes Received:
    787
    Location:
    Sierra Nevada Mt's Ca.
    Best quote ever in the context of going back and forth between real rigs and modeler rigs - 'for a while you will love your virtual rig, and hate the real, then you'll find a reason to go back' . Works in both directions due to drawbacks on both sides and of course our eternal quest for better tone!

    When I had a real 5150 III 1/2 stack I loved the clarity of the chords and riffs, but the solo notes were always thin, shrill and ice picky. In my Ax8 rig, although the chords and riffs do not sound exactly the same as the real rig the solos blow it away with full blooming notes that are so much more pleasing to my ears.

    Bottom line is in the FRFR world it's all about the right IR. I have numerous bundles myself and the only one I use is from a Freman creation purchased in his pre set pack. This IR and my Friedman asm sounds 10x better than my real Marshall cabs from the Ax8 running through them with more full 3d tone coming from the FRFR rig!
     
    bishop5150, ejecta and skyhighrocks like this.
  17. skyhighrocks

    skyhighrocks
    Expand Collapse
    Inspired

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    275

    That's the thing...I've played my solo CD through it and it definitely sounds different than how I mixed it. The dispersion is probably where my ears are not used to hearing things so spread out like that.
     
    levipeto and barhrecords like this.
  18. barhrecords

    barhrecords
    Expand Collapse
    Axe-Master

    Joined:
    Mar 26, 2010
    Messages:
    8,968
    Likes Received:
    5,891
    Location:
    34.673, -86.745
    Mine sound very neutral and flattering up on sticks in free field mode in my studio. In an A/B with my studio monitors, no surprises for my system.
     
  19. AminorZmajor

    AminorZmajor
    Expand Collapse
    Veteran

    Joined:
    Jan 1, 2013
    Messages:
    675
    Likes Received:
    371
    Location:
    Glendale, AZ
    If needed, I could gig with just going FOH and CLR monitor but as mentioned already a few times using both direct to FOH and out 2 to power amp cab is what I prefer. I am ready to use 412, 212 or 112 cabs as needed..... LOL.......
     
    bishop5150 likes this.
  20. skyhighrocks

    skyhighrocks
    Expand Collapse
    Inspired

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2016
    Messages:
    337
    Likes Received:
    275
    Yup, I could gig with the CLR again but I wouldn't enjoy it at this point.
     
    bishop5150 likes this.

Share This Page