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Fighting my CLR

skyhighrocks

Inspired
Quality IEM makes all the difference to me. Also depends on the headphone amp being used. For example I have used an Aviom and a P16 and with the same pair of IEM I prefer the sound of the P16. It is brighter sounding than my tone sounds through FOH but I can live with it

I use $1000 6 driver custom molds for IEMs with a top of the line Sennheiser unit. I've never had luck with IEMs whether they're custom, expensive, 2 driver, 3 driver, shure system, etc....guitar always sounds bad no matter what we try. Everything else sounds good. The guitar sounds great out front though. It's just the fact I don't like a guitar tone pressed against my ear drums. It's like sticking your head in front of a guitar cab speaker and hearing that. Won't sound good.
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
I use $1000 6 driver custom molds for IEMs with a top of the line Sennheiser unit. I've never had luck with IEMs whether they're custom, expensive, 2 driver, 3 driver, shure system, etc....guitar always sounds bad no matter what we try. Everything else sounds good. The guitar sounds great out front though. It's just the fact I don't like a guitar tone pressed against my ear drums. It's like sticking your head in front of a guitar cab speaker and hearing that. Won't sound good.
I have to agree. I haven't got a satisfying in ear tone either.

I think it can be done because I do enjoy listening to full program material on the same in ears.

I wonder if some of the difference is psychological effect of the feel when playing that influences how we perceive the tone? In other words, without a loud speaker interacting with the guitar we perceive the tone differently? Anyway, playing is different than passive listening.
 

brokenvail

Fractal Fanatic
It's just the fact I don't like a guitar tone pressed against my ear drums. It's like sticking your head in front of a guitar cab speaker and hearing that. Won't sound good.
I wonder if some of the difference is psychological effect of the feel when playing that influences how we perceive the tone? In other words, without a loud speaker interacting with the guitar we perceive the tone differently? Anyway, playing is different than passive listening.
This is the key right here. Sticking your head in front is what IEM's are producing as is FRFR. Because it is hearing what the mic hears when sticking it right in front of the speaker. It is absolutely in our heads. We have this notion after so many years of playing about how things should sound and work ect. Honestly the way most guys hear a tradition amp set up is not exactly natural. Sound blowing behind us at our waist or below rolls off lots of high end.

Back in the day I had many different rigs including 3 channel dual rec, tri axis with a 2:90 (and a strategy 500 before that) and a VHT (Fryette Sig X) I loved my live tone on stage but never ever ever liked anything I heard recorded live. It did not translate well to anywhere but me on stage. This forum has guys who fall in to camps. Those who only care if they sound good to themselves on stage and those want it to sound good to the crowd. FAS changed my life in 2010. I started understanding some things about FOH sound and why my tone did not sound well in the past when recorded live. Since 2010 I am super happy with my love tones, sounds guys love me and I get complements every time I play out.
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
We can have it both ways. The tone out front, direct, sounds great. The tone we hear on stage should also sound great to our ears. They can be different. That's the point of this thread. Now if I can get the in ears to sound great, I'll be a happy camper.
 

ChristThePhone

Fractal Fanatic
We can have it both ways. The tone out front, direct, sounds great. The tone we hear on stage should also sound great to our ears. They can be different. That's the point of this thread. Now if I can get the in ears to sound great, I'll be a happy camper.
Given the fact that not even #MrTheEdge2U has found a fix for this issue yet I think it's safe to assume that no existing technology can solve this problem (invention required).
 

scottburrow

Fractal Fanatic
I would add just a hint of reverb to give the amp a room to be in. This may have been mentioned, so if so yeah that!
 

muudrock

Experienced
There is a sacrifice in personal guitar tone quality with IEMs, and FRFR in general. Right now, its a fact of life. But remember we are comparing apples to oranges when referring to a live guitar cabinet vs an IR and an FR enclosure. It would be great to bridge that gap and I think it one day will be, but not today. Sounds to me like the OP just needs to continue to run a live guitar cab on stage and send the direct signal to FOH. You will be happy, your FOH sound will be consistent, and you can concentrate on playing.
 

Tahoebrian5

Fractal Fanatic
It sounds to me like you just don't like the CLR. Did you try the ASM? I've compared ASM patches to my real BE-100 head as well as my EVH 5153 head into real cabs at band practice levels and while it is not the same even dialing up the same amps, it sounds just as good to me. Granted that likely means my ears suck but I'm fairly picky and never satisfied. What keeps me going back to frfr is I can continue to make adjustments to improve my tone. With the real amps it is what it is and only so much you can do. Curse and blessing all in one.
 

jlynnb1

Fractal Fanatic
i mean you've already laid out your issues. you don't like hearing mic'd tone, you like hearing cab tone. the Axe via frfr of any kind will never, ever, give you that. no reason to fight it. the Axe or the CLR isn't at fault here though....it's just not what it's meant to give you at all, no reason to keep trying to make it do something it isn't designed to do.
 

Robboman

Fractal Fanatic
i mean you've already laid out your issues. you don't like hearing mic'd tone, you like hearing cab tone. the Axe via frfr of any kind will never, ever, give you that. no reason to fight it. the Axe or the CLR isn't at fault here though....it's just not what it's meant to give you at all, no reason to keep trying to make it do something it isn't designed to do.
This, exactly.

I've always felt there's way too much internet advice to use FRFR onstage, as if you are somehow missing out or doing it wrong if you use Fractal with a real cab. Way back in 2008 with my Axe-Fx Ultra, I bought and sold a few FR speakers, tried several million IRs, struggled and hummed and hawed. I finally went back to real cabs (on SS power) and I've been totally satisfied and happy ever since (onto Axe II and now AX8).
 

Molekiller

Experienced
Has anybody tried the 64audio iems with the pressure vents (apex or adel) and have any insight on whether or not they relieve the speaker on your eardrum feeling or sound?
 

RKF

Inspired
It's like sticking your head in front of a guitar cab speaker and hearing that. Won't sound good.
Perfectly illustrates how different we all are. This is exactly the sound I like to hear which is why I love FRFR. I can't stand the muffled, always-changing-depending-on-where-you're-standing "in the room" sound. FRFR sounds like a properly mic'd cab at a much wider dispersion. The tones we all know, love & try to emulate are RECORDED tones for the most part so why not emulate THAT sound? At least that's my take...
 

AminorZmajor

Experienced
We can have it both ways. The tone out front, direct, sounds great. The tone we hear on stage should also sound great to our ears. They can be different. That's the point of this thread. Now if I can get the in ears to sound great, I'll be a happy camper.
Do you mostly play through your own PA or is it the Venues PA? I get my onstage mix to the CLR from the mixer and I make some slight EQ changes to match as closely as possible to my actual Cabinet. Another thing I noticed is my new mixer has some default compression on all channel strips which can introduce a bit of feel change. I am still investigating this......
 

barhrecords

Axe-Master
Do you mostly play through your own PA or is it the Venues PA? I get my onstage mix to the CLR from the mixer and I make some slight EQ changes to match as closely as possible to my actual Cabinet. Another thing I noticed is my new mixer has some default compression on all channel strips which can introduce a bit of feel change. I am still investigating this......
My "more me" mixer has 3 band EQ on each channel. I EQ my vocal and guitar in the CLR to taste. I like having the EQ control right there vs. in a menu. Especially dialing in different sources like vocal and guitar.
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
It sounds to me like you just don't like the CLR. Did you try the ASM? I've compared ASM patches to my real BE-100 head as well as my EVH 5153 head into real cabs at band practice levels and while it is not the same even dialing up the same amps, it sounds just as good to me. Granted that likely means my ears suck but I'm fairly picky and never satisfied. What keeps me going back to frfr is I can continue to make adjustments to improve my tone. With the real amps it is what it is and only so much you can do. Curse and blessing all in one.

Yes, I've had the ASM...same problem for me. I'm working at it though as I do need to use a FRFR speaker from time to time.
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
Has anybody tried the 64audio iems with the pressure vents (apex or adel) and have any insight on whether or not they relieve the speaker on your eardrum feeling or sound?
I have the new apex A6...really good sound (except for guitar). I also use the Rev33 attached to them to help with fatigue.
 

skyhighrocks

Inspired
Do you mostly play through your own PA or is it the Venues PA? I get my onstage mix to the CLR from the mixer and I make some slight EQ changes to match as closely as possible to my actual Cabinet. Another thing I noticed is my new mixer has some default compression on all channel strips which can introduce a bit of feel change. I am still investigating this......
It depends...we have a dedicated sound guy but we also play large venues with house systems...
 
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