Axe-Fx III Firmware 22.00 Public Beta (Beta 6)

[unix-guy]

A LOT OF IRs generally have overblown low ends, compare to what one’d hear from a real cab in the room as they are shot at extremely close range, that’s one thing that make them much less realistic sometimes, and one’d often need some low cut.

if you ear is used to the exaggerated low end, you might perceive more natural sound as lack of lows,

An IR is realistic to a mic'd speaker, not a real cab in the room.

 

[Cortlan GK]

Just tried the new Dyna cabs, my first impression - they are bright and clear, but I still can't get enough low end from them in compare with the commercial IR mixes I usually use. Does someone have this problem too?

It's the same with me. The guitar itself sounds quite dry, but in the mix, to my surprise, it is much better. I'm used to more bass, but it doesn't seem to be good for the final sound in the mix. I guess I need to switch.

 

[∞Fractals]

It's the same with me. The guitar itself sounds quite dry, but in the mix, to my surprise, it is much better. I'm used to more bass, but it doesn't seem to be good for the final sound in the mix. I guess I need to switch.

This is the way …

 

[Piing]

It's the same with me. The guitar itself sounds quite dry, but in the mix, to my surprise, it is much better. I'm used to more bass, but it doesn't seem to be good for the final sound in the mix. I guess I need to switch.

In case you are only using the Dynamic, try a Condenser mic. That SM57 is thin and nasty.

Room ambience can also help

 

[jimmynorrisjr]

The 57 is a great midrange focused mic, but maybe not everyones choice. The thing I keep seeing people do is leave the position of the dyna-cab mics at 0. This is probably going to sound thin and nasty. I'll admit at low volumes it may not sound appealing, but turn up the volume to a decent level and twiddle the position somewhere between 4mm-5mm ish. There is plenty of good midrange there. The other big complaint is not enough bottom. Try adding a ribbon and the dynamic with the distances at 0 and the positions at 4-5mm. Leave the amp eqs at noon. Turn off all the low cuts and high cuts in both the amp and cab blocks. Start there and see if you can find something. If that doesn't work, what are you monitoring with?

 

[Thenewexhibit]

I see a few people here talking about how there isn’t enough bottom. I’m curious, what does everyone consider “bottom” frequency wise?
I admittedly feel like the bottom is pretty ample in my option, to where I’m high passing in the preamp up to around 80hz, sometimes close to 100hz depending on the amp or cabinet being used. I don’t generally turn the low end up on the amp models either, so I find it strange that people aren’t getting enough low end.

 

[tysonlt]

I see a few people here talking about how there isn’t enough bottom. I’m curious, what does everyone consider “bottom” frequency wise?
I admittedly feel like the bottom is pretty ample in my option, to where I’m high passing in the preamp up to around 80hz, sometimes close to 100hz depending on the amp or cabinet being used. I don’t generally turn the low end up on the amp models either, so I find it strange that people aren’t getting enough low end

It’s an age-old dilemma for guitarist. We like the grunt and power and big bassy goodness for our tone, it feels so good to get the pants flapping when we’re chugging away at home. But in a mix, those low end frequencies interfere with the other low end frequencies, such as bass guitar, and things get muddy and our sound is lost. So we need to dial in more highs and miss, and less bass, which sounds “thin and raspy” in isolation. Just like I guess a raw egg in isolation is not very appealing, but makes the cake.

So if you’re playing at home for your own pleasure, then crank that bass to your heart’s content! But you will get lots of advice to trim that bass, because we’re also thinking about how it fits into a mix.

 

[Thenewexhibit]

It’s an age-old dilemma for guitarist. We like the grunt and power and big bassy goodness for our tone, it feels so good to get the pants flapping when we’re chugging away at home. But in a mix, those low end frequencies interfere with the other low end frequencies, such as bass guitar, and things get muddy and our sound is lost. So we need to dial in more highs and miss, and less bass, which sounds “thin and raspy” in isolation. Just like I guess a raw egg in isolation is not very appealing, but makes the cake.

So if you’re playing at home for your own pleasure, then crank that bass to your heart’s content! But you will get lots of advice to trim that bass, because we’re also thinking about how it fits into a mix.

For sure! Even doing a little high cut can help to not interfere with cymbals/synths etc sometimes too! It’s just interesting that some have experienced not enough low end, but I’ve noticed the opposite and find there to be plenty, so it’s interesting how we hear things! The Lord blow my mind with how we perceive frequencies!

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

In case you are only using the Dynamic, try a Condenser mic. That SM57 is thin and nasty.

Room ambience can also help

Mash it up against the grille cloth and slide it sideways away from the cap until it sounds right. The proximity effect will add just enough lows for the mix, and being off the cap will tame the ice-pick. Just like IRL....

 

[My name is mud]

It’s an age-old dilemma for guitarist. We like the grunt and power and big bassy goodness for our tone, it feels so good to get the pants flapping when we’re chugging away at home. But in a mix, those low end frequencies interfere with the other low end frequencies, such as bass guitar, and things get muddy and our sound is lost. So we need to dial in more highs and miss, and less bass, which sounds “thin and raspy” in isolation. Just like I guess a raw egg in isolation is not very appealing, but makes the cake.

So if you’re playing at home for your own pleasure, then crank that bass to your heart’s content! But you will get lots of advice to trim that bass, because we’re also thinking about how it fits into a mix.

Exactly.
And this difference is not well understood.
Playing through an ir is done to record or doing gigs . nothing to compare when you play in front of your amp at home or in the practice room (except if you plug your axe with a power amp) . That’s why I keep both system . For the pleasure of my ears, nothing beat an amp in the room to me, but the day I mic it, it don’t sound better than an axe. The axe is a recording and gig tool, not an amp. So playing alone in your bedroom through 6’ monitoring with a 57 ir… sure it suck compared to an amp in the room. But in a recording it can sound good yes

 

[My name is mud]

An IR is realistic to a mic'd speaker, not a real cab in the room.

Yes but room and rear cab irs exist too and add some 3D to the sound

 

[My name is mud]

The difference while playing through a real stack in front of you, or playing a amp + cab ir with 6’ studio monitoring is the same than sitting on the bike for real or watching it on tv. Once you have understood that, you live way better with your modeler. As Cliff said sometimes, people don’t play as loud as an amp with their modeler, that’s why many tube lovers or whatever are disappointed when they try a modeler for the first time… when you choose a dual rectifier with a 4x12 ir in your axe, it surely don’t sound like your stack without microphone in your practice room

 

[Rogerthat]

I am not sure what Cliff is using for mic preamps for these. A lot of IR companies use different preamps which can have an impact on frequency response. A 57 through a transformer-based pre vs transformer-less pre could provide a different tone. Also a 57 doesn't always work for your favorite amps.

 

[Immanuel]

Plus, there's a "Legacy" library from the older units. "Classic" maybe ?

Or 'Static' as opposed to dynamic

 

[sprint]

The difference while playing through a real stack in front of you, or playing a amp + cab ir with 6’ studio monitoring is the same than sitting on the bike for real or watching it on tv. Once you have understood that, you live way better with your modeler. As Cliff said sometimes, people don’t play as loud as an amp with their modeler, that’s why many tube lovers or whatever are disappointed when they try a modeler for the first time… when you choose a dual rectifier with a 4x12 ir in your axe, it surely don’t sound like your stack without microphone in your practice room

Can't help but rebutt this. The mic'd cab sound is preferred by many (ie me), and can be argued to be just as "real" as AITR since it represents the format of much of the music many of us have ever heard in our lives: recorded music. It's all real, it's all good.

 

[Rock Chalk]

The difference while playing through a real stack in front of you, or playing a amp + cab ir with 6’ studio monitoring is the same than sitting on the bike for real or watching it on tv.

Can't help but rebutt this. The mic'd cab sound is preferred by many (ie me), and can be argued to be just as "real" as AITR since it represents the format of much of the music many of us have ever heard in our lives: recorded music. It's all real, it's all good.

A big +1 to what sprint said, plus, I think playing through the Axe-Fx with a good Amp model and Cab IR (Dyna Cab), is more like being on a recumbent bike while wearing a high dollar virtual reality headset......it's in a whole different league than just watching it on tv.

 

[Sashman]

Yeah, I‘m remembering people asking how to get the sound of Artist X on Album X and the answer is always:“It’s a recorded cab with added effects, eq, etc. !“
All that and more is possible with the Axe FX and now people asking for „Amp in the Room“ sound.
You simply can’t have both or you need two setups like @My name is mud already mentioned

Personally I‘m completely satisfied with Studio Monitors and FRFR, maybe because I was a booked Studio and Live musician and I played through Studio Monitors or FRFR Stage Cabs most of the time.

 

[WW Audio]

Just installed the beta and....wow! Having spent years moving real mic's around on real guitar cabinets, this feels like home for me. There's a dimensionality to these dynacabs that was somewhat lacking in the regular IR's - to my ears anyway. Not that the regular IR's are bad in any way, I've got a number presets dialed in with them that sound amazing. But the dynacabs take it to another level - it's how I prefer to do the majority of EQ'ing for a given tone to start off. Added the Rumble dynacabs to a Dumble preset, one with a ribbon the other with a condenser, and in less than a minute had a tone that put a big, greasy, shit eatin' grin on my face.

Sweet Merciful Mother Mary Moses's Maniacal Monkey's Of Motown - I fecking love this magic black box!

 

[My name is mud]

Can't help but rebutt this. The mic'd cab sound is preferred by many (ie me), and can be argued to be just as "real" as AITR since it represents the format of much of the music many of us have ever heard in our lives: recorded music. It's all real, it's all good.

The guitar in recording is quad tracked and sometimes more, helped with the bass guitar, compressed, produced, mastered … It make me years to realize how the guitar sound bad isolated in my favorite records . So imagine when you listen just to the “crude” amp track with a mic without corrections.. that’s what irs are.

have you ever plugged yourself in a tube amp in a room? It don’t sound the same as pointing a point of the cab through a mic with all the frequency and harshness it gives immediately.

Playing through my JP2c in front of it sound 10 times better than when I mic it or when I play with it through an ir. Same I can’t help if you come home and you choose the ir tone as favorite if I plug yourself in both config. Even as same volume, you ears will bleed if you listen to the amp through 57 at stack volume. In a band it goes because these high make it audible where the bass and drums and everything got a lot of basses …

 

[yyz67]

I am not sure what Cliff is using for mic preamps for these. A lot of IR companies use different preamps which can have an impact on frequency response. A 57 through a transformer-based pre vs transformer-less pre could provide a different tone. Also a 57 doesn't always work for your favorite amps.

True but my guess would be FAS is using as neutral a preamp as possible (or correcting for one that isn't).

The CAB block has preamp modeling in it to add unique preamp character, including dynamic nonlinear effects like overdrive/saturation which an IR can't do.