What is it with this obsessive deal with sounding JUST like . . .

jetspeed747 said:
Hey Henry,
I totally get what you're saying but to say that the quest to find your OWN sound, to be you own man is what makes you unique (your quote "And I know, that's just me, and that's OK".) is just a little pretentious don't you think? I take it you have a little bit of experience with guitar and tone. Did you start out writing your own songs and creating your own tone? or did you emulate your heros? I think it's a lot of fun to get to sound like one of my heros. It motivates me to play more and from there I have tweaked quite a few different players sounds to create my own tone. If I'm not mistaken many a guitarist greater than I have followed this very path.........yes even the great ones. I can't help to hear Jimmy in Stevies playing and some of his tonal qualities for example. Sorry if I've misread your post but it just seemed to me you were trying to make a point rather than start a meaningful and informative thread.

PS you're not in a tiny, tiny and miniscule minority............perhaps you're just not as unique as you believe.
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Well I detect a tiny bit of hostility there. It's OK. And no, I pretty much never did copy my heros. Never. But I am unique in that respect. I started out with that as my "mission statement." I wasn't so much making a statement. But I think I think differently than many on this. The forum is just choking with guys trying to cop someone elses tone. That's all fine and well but after I while I kind of go, "Sheesh!"
 
Porkchop Xpress said:
Why does this matter?
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The only good comment on this thread in my opinion. How about just letting people do what they want instead of starting threads like this?
Hopefully the new firmware comes out soon, this thread is getting far too much activity. Lol
 
boltrecords said:
Why is this always such a big issue? I see almost as many comments and threads on various forums of people saying "find your own sound" as i do about people trying to copy someones tone. Who cares? If someone wants to try and copy eddies tone, let em. Quit raggin on them. The axe fx obviously gives everyone the tools to copy tones that we previously weren't able to reproduce as easily. Let people enjoy themselves and tweak till their hands fall off.
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I don't care if someone cops other peoples tones. It's just so foreign to me, I'm just asking WHY. Just so you can? I mean I don't get it.
 
Second thought...

This reminds me of taking interpersonal communications in college, where the teacher always threw out controversial statements for the purpose of debate... ideas come in disagreement!

I don't want to be a Stevie or Gilmour clone as much as I love their playing. But really, we ALL cop from musicians before us. We use tunings others invented, play in musical styles others invented, using distorted or clean tones others made popular, and on instruments others built to suit their needs. Give credit where it's due, we stand on the shoulders of giants whether we admit it or not. Cloning a specific tone isn't any different (to me). I agree with just about every post here in one way or another. I am glad music and musicians influence me like they do.

This discussion is the fun and individuality of being a musician. Your guitar playing is your opinion. Build your own building, make it look just how you conceive it. But don't fool yourself into thinking you made the dirt it stands on. :razz
 
True about everyone building on everyone else.

Used to be I dreamed of buying a Twin, a Plexi, a JCM800 etc. etc.

Got a day job; bought all the amps. Now I've got a modeller and the wife doesn't like the smell of tolex quite like I do :)

So the dream of re-creating classic rigs really hasn't changed, it's just the tools are there to do it, vs. just collecting the old gear.

Richard
 
Because duplication (copy) comes before understanding.

Nailing someone else's tone gives one the understanding of how it's done. It's an incredible learning experience. It's like learning someone else's solo note for note. You can then take what you learn and use it in your own vocabulary. I find it an enriching experience even if 99.9% of the time I won't use that sound live.
I love knowing how it's done right. You learn music from the masters, why not how they construct their sound? Then once your wings are formed and dry ... FLY!
 
Rick said:
Second thought...

This reminds me of taking interpersonal communications in college, where the teacher always threw out controversial statements for the purpose of debate... ideas come in disagreement!

I don't want to be a Stevie or Gilmour clone as much as I love their playing. But really, we ALL cop from musicians before us. We use tunings others invented, play in musical styles others invented, using distorted or clean tones others made popular, and on instruments others built to suit their needs. Give credit where it's due, we stand on the shoulders of giants whether we admit it or not. Cloning a specific tone isn't any different (to me). I agree with just about every post here in one way or another. I am glad music and musicians influence me like they do.

This discussion is the fun and individuality of being a musician. Your guitar playing is your opinion. Build your own building, make it look just how you conceive it. But don't fool yourself into thinking you made the dirt it stands on. :razz
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No, of course not. But there's a difference between playing a genre or style, playing with a clean tone, or an electric guitar, acoustic guitar, 12 string, distortion, tube screamer, dynacomp -- in short GEAR and actively and with purpose copying someone else settings, tone, signal chain in the hope of sounding exactly like that person. And once again, I'm not trying to be critical. It's just so different from the way I operate. The question was why. And I'm getting answers!
 
Patzag said:
Because duplication (copy) comes before understanding.

Nailing someone else's tone gives one the understanding of how it's done. It's an incredible learning experience. It's like learning someone else's solo note for note. You can then take what you learn and use it in your own vocabulary. I find it an enriching experience even if 99.9% of the time I won't use that sound live.
I love knowing how it's done right. You learn music from the masters, why not how they construct their sound? Then once your wings are formed and dry ... FLY!
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Well this does make sense and this is what I was eluding too earlier. But what seems missing, to me, is the necessary (for me), next step - forget the construction of others and construct for yourself.

I purposely left out several steps in this process. It is possible to understand by doing and study. I listened, and listened and studied without physically copying. Now it's possible I've failed and my playing absolutely sucks. I'm not the only judge of that.

AND sound just seems different than deconstructing someones fretboard antics. I don't know. I'm weird.
 
It's funny. Awhile back I saw the reunion of Cream... Heck, Eric Clapton did not have the same tone he played on the early Cream stuff. It still sounded like Eric on guitar and it still sounded great.
 
henryrobinett said:
No, of course not. But there's a difference between playing a genre or style, playing with a clean tone, or an electric guitar, acoustic guitar, 12 string, distortion, tube screamer, dynacomp -- in short GEAR and actively and with purpose copying someone else settings, tone, signal chain in the hope of sounding exactly like that person. And once again, I'm not trying to be critical. It's just so different from the way I operate. The question was why. And I'm getting answers!
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Sorry if that appeared to be directed at you Henry, it wasn't my intention! I enjoy your opinions. I was really going for the concept that the future of playing is musicians building on the past and making it relevant to themselves in the present, however that is accomplished. For some, it's dissecting the tone to the atom. That's not for me, but hey... someone's got to do it. Your opinions are valid, as are most here. People are giving "the truth from their perspective," you know... as they see it. That's reality to them. I respect it, but interject that doesn't make it my reality. Or yours. :)

I can only hope that, by the time my fingers are folded across my chest and the box is closed, that I played a few things that made the soup a little more tasty for the next player. Let them take what they will, how they will.

In the end, we don't have to get it (and I often don't), as long as they do. Keep posting, my friend. :)
 
if _______'s band has a great guitar tone, and you can match it exactly, doesn't that mean you have a great guitar tone too? i think most would say yes, but tone is STILL subjective.

some don't like hetfield's tone, or dimebag's, or carlton, or lukather, etc...

i definitely shape my tone referencing my favorite sounds, and many people like what i come up with at my gigs. but it's still my own sound. some might say i'm lazy because i'm only "close enough". oh well, YMMV <-- i always wanted to say that!
 
For me, this question is easy to answer.

Initially, when I was in junior high and new to the electric guitar, it was to develop an ear for tone. Trying to emulate my favorite guitarists' tones helped me develop and understand tone. Eventually, I learned not only how to recreate my favorite tones, but also how to take my favorite elements of each and apply them to my own signature tone for my original compositions.

Now, I recreate the tones of others for piles of cash.

Simple.
 
Personally, I don't think anyone can claim fully their "own voice." We are all just a combination of our influences.

We write original music, and someone will ALWAYS say, "That kind of reminds me of _____".

The only time when tone becomes unique is usually by accident.

Otherwise, I bet we could take almost any "famous tone" and trace it back to a mixture of influences.

It is like music theory. Do you need it to do music. No, not at all. But it can help.

Dialing in a tone can be great education in how sound works, as well as all the components. And it can be a great spring board to finding your own "sound."

Knocking people for trying to mimic some else's tone is equivalent to knocking them for learning a song note for note ... knocking them for studying music theory ... knocking them for memorizing scales ...

It is all part of the journey, part of growth for some ... not for all ...

Even to this day, I'll hear very famous bands who will say, "We were trying to go for an XYZ feel in that song." Could we not say, "Hey, be yourself! Don't try to mimic anything else!" But we don't.

Part of "inspiration" is being IN-spirited by something or someone. It happens all the time, and it happens in different ways for different people.
 
Makes me remember when Jaco Pastorius was every young aspiring jazz & fusion bass players house god. They all more or less tried to sound like him, even played 'Donna Lee' as he did solo on his first solo album. After awhile there was this feeling of unorginality and boredom.
 
henryrobinett said:
And no, I pretty much never did copy my heros. Never. But I am unique in that respect. I started out with that as my "mission statement."
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Well, I'd really like to give my 2 cents here, so I have to ask: Why did it start out as being your "mission statement"? What were the pros you had that outweighed the cons at the time of your decision?

henryrobinett said:
But what seems missing, to me, is the necessary (for me), next step - forget the construction of others and construct for yourself.
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What makes you assume that the vast majority of forum users don't continue their pursuit for their personal tone after nailing their heroes'?

henryrobinett said:
I purposely left out several steps in this process. It is possible to understand by doing and study. I listened, and listened and studied without physically copying.
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There is something I don't understand with this statement. What did you get out of this study study without physically copying (the tone, the playing, whatever)? You see, human beings as we are, we learn by replication. "Original" learning is something that is not possible. Heck, we aren't even as creative or original as most people think we are. It has already been proven that what we do (and we do it very, very well) is join the dots regarding info that we have dug up to come to fresh perspectives and conclusions. And in order to do this, we HAVE to copy. We even have to go one step further and have to copy others mistakes, so we can realize what is wrong and can come to the "correct" conclusion. This is what we do in order to come to groundbreaking and original ideas.

So, IMMO, copying and imitation are incredibly understimated skills and concepts. I find them to be extremely powerful and liberating. How can you break free of the dogmas and status quos that are in place regarding a specific area?

Henry, I truly admire our goal. Very few have the vision and will to pursue something outside the circle. I truly hope you pursuit your desire until you sound your last note on your instrument.

I just guess what i'm trying to express is that there are certainly some better ways than others to achieve this goal.


(2 cents given :p)
 
henryrobinett said:
Well I detect a tiny bit of hostility there. It's OK. And no, I pretty much never did copy my heros. Never. But I am unique in that respect. I started out with that as my "mission statement." I wasn't so much making a statement. But I think I think differently than many on this. The forum is just choking with guys trying to cop someone elses tone. That's all fine and well but after I while I kind of go, "Sheesh!"
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No hostility at all Henry, I just think it better to tell everyone how unique you are on another forum.

Cheers
 
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I guess there are all kinds of perspectives... here's mine from the other side.

I'm NEVER GOING TO BE A FAMOUS GUITAR PLAYER!

OK. I've said it. I have never played in anything other than a cover band - except for those bands that threw in a couple of originals. Some have stated that cover bands get invited back if they do a reasonable job, sell drinks and don't need to sound like the artists they are covering, nor "nail" that tone. +100 here.. however, as some who is self-taught and picked up guitar about 15 yrs ago, I've worked really hard to get half-decent. No pretensions about being "good". I readily concede that there's plenty of folks out there that are WAY better than I'll ever be (and have learning tools available that us old folks never had when we were younger).

So, honestly - I could care less about "my" tone. I care about being a better player, and part of that is the "tribute" to the original artist whose songs I play at a gig. Part of that is also trying to get "their tone". My last band played 3 or 4 Journey songs and we used to nail them. Part of it was the tone. Part of it was we played them better (and got the leads correct), and sounded MUCH better than the local Journey "tribute" band who has had TV spots, radio air time, and big gigs. We've been told numerous times that we simply blew them away. Every time I see/hear a cover/tribute band playing songs where the outcome bears no resemblance to the original, I cringe. Especially tribute bands that massacre the originals. To be clear, I'm not talking about bands who deliberately set out to make a song "their own", by changing tempo, style, etc. I'm talking 'bout the average bar band. When I hear folks of that ilk say they want to make it their own, my 1st thought is that they don't have the skill. It's a cop out. If you play a song with a signature lick, you better get it right, and IMJHO that includes the tone.

Learning other's licks, nuances, playing style AND "tone" help me get better at playing. I'm no natural. I have kids, a day job (thankfully), cars, yard, wife, band, fitness, yada, yada, yada.. like many do. I don't have the luxury of spending four hours playing. I might get one or 2 at most - except at rehearsal. So I have to use that time to my advantage. I do not make a living from music and never will. So I stay happy with trying to cop the tones and styles of the many "greats" out there. Doesn't make me any less a player, and the Axe-II helps me get there with a little less effort.

My $0.03, my explanation Henry :)
 
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Despite having only done covers for the last 15 years or so, I can honestly say that I've never gone obsessively chasing any tone

For sure, I've always wanted a nice clean / rock / lead sound (delete as appropriate), but that's done for two reasons: 1) So that it feels good and right to me and 2) So that it sounds right to the audience so they can jump about and sing along without really having to think about it

Despite downloading a number of patches, I've only ever done that to see what others have achieved (I know there are so many other variables) and might have possibly used one or two as a starting point... but I'm not even sure about that
 
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