What is it with this obsessive deal with sounding JUST like . . .

Psykopsilocybin - I love you two cents! And giving me the opportunity to explain. I have to run in a couple of minutes so I can't respond fully now.

But I'm a fully grown musician who has already matured and developed and played with a lot of great, some famous musicians, record my own albums. I think I passed the test. Many may not like the way I play, but few would say I can't -- I think. Or they haven't to my face!

In short I admired and eventually lived with and studied with the great jazz musician Charles MIngus who always emphasized playing your own stuff. I took that to the next level since BEFORE picking up the guitar 43 years ago. I never memorized a solo, I never copied anyone whatsoever. For me music was/is a deeply personal communication. I don't think it's NECESSARY to HAVE to copy to understands. I proved it for myself, although it flys in the face of common wisdom.

Theres another current well known jazz musician - Chris Potter, who did the same thing. And he sounds great. Its a common misconception simply because almost everyone learns this way. It's not for everyone, but it was for me.

I gotta run! Sorry if there are typos and shit.
 
AdamCook said:
I completely disagree with this statement. In my experience a band will be rehired if you play the music well and put on a good performance that keeps people dancing and buying drinks.

If you meet the above criteria and use a GOOD tone that is in the right ball park (i.e. don't cover U2 with Metallica tones) then you will do just fine.
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While the bottom line for management is drink sales (and gambling revenue), I can say with certainty that the tones I use to cover various groups have unquestionably played a major role in my ability to maintain work over the last 12 years. I have no idea whether increased drink/gaming revenue is a direct result of accurate tone/playing. In my case, there is enough of a correlation for me to think so. Not all of the audience can appreciate accurate tone, but enough do to make it worth the effort. And if the general public doesn't notice, bandleaders (and others who hire talent) do.
 
henryrobinett said:
So I have a question: What is the deal with people trying to sound like everyone else? Or a selected sample of other guitar heros? What is the deal with that? The Kemper and Tone Shaping possibilities has people around these parts practically fainting with dizziness over this stuff. FINALLY you can sound like XXX!

I know I'm in a tiny, tiny and miniscule minority, but that is not why I bought the Ultra and ultimately the II. I have NO PROBLEM with people that do, but I find it curious. Music, FOR ME, has always been the quest to find my OWN sound. Be my own man. And I know, that's just me, and that's OK. But I'm just surprised that so MANY people are obsessively drawn to sound like someone else. It's just a hobby thing for fun? A game to see if you can? I kind of don't really get it.
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WOW - Someone finally said it!

Personally, I also am tired of so much similar playing (squeal, tap, fast run, repeat). And so much 'recto-metal' sound. Although there are some guitar sounds I like and might want to play with, the need has never occurred since 2007, when I got my Ultra (or was it 2008?). I immediately set out to make 'my' guitar sound - I.e. take the sound of my Fender amps and my quirky guitars, and just improve it. I tinkered a lot the first year, got some basic cleans, some very organic, 'ampy' distortions, and was happy as a pig in mud. Still am. I think that there is too little originality in playing, in creating your own 'sound' (Zappa, Hendrix, Santana certainly weren't aping everyone else), and in composing. Vive l'originalitie!
 
steadystate said:
While the bottom line for management is drink sales (and gambling revenue), I can say with certainty that the tones I use to cover various groups have unquestionably played a major role in my ability to maintain work over the last 12 years. I have no idea whether increased drink/gaming revenue is a direct result of accurate tone/playing. In my case, there is enough of a correlation for me to think so. Not all of the audience can appreciate accurate tone, but enough do to make it worth the effort. And if the general public doesn't notice, bandleaders (and others who hire talent) do.
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I can definitely see that. Dedication, hard work and professionalism are what it takes to achieve good recreations. It's good to know that it is rewarded too.

Richard
 
jetspeed747 said:
No hostility at all Henry, I just think it better to tell everyone how unique you are on another forum.

Cheers
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What are talking about. That's hostility. Why should I say it on another forum?
 
I guess my answer would be some artists existing tones really suit my style of playing.
Nothing more to it than that.
And likewise, tones I've made from scratch I'll often hear " Oh, that sounds just like ( insert name here )'s tone.
It's all good ;)
 
All these guitarists claiming to "dial in their sound". In all my many years of hearing all the local bar/club guitarists(some very good players), I've yet to hear any of them having anything even close to "their tone".

Hell, even the vast majority(probably 98%) of well known touring/recording guitarists of the last 50 years don't have anything close to "their own sound". The handful that do develop a unique tone, it tends to just come naturally to them. This is very rare.

Just because someone plays a cover song with a different tone than the original, it doesn't make what they are doing original or unique in any way. They are just playing a cover song with a different tone(often not great, but always generic) How hard or unique is that??? It's much harder to actually sound like whatever iconic tone the song might have.

Even if they play an original song they wrote, the guitar tone is going to be something we've heard already. People won't say " hey you've put a new spin on guitar tone dude". lol

I know I know, some kid out there somewhere will create the next iconic tone. Yeah but that will just naturally happen to him even if he was trying to copy his heroes tones or not. It's called destiny.Happens once in a blue moon.

Any of you guys that claim to have your own tone thing going on, please share your recordings or live performances with us!! We'll be the judge.
 
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willowdale said:
All these guitarists claiming to "dial in their sound". In all my many years of hearing all the local bar/club guitarists(some very good players), I've yet to hear any of them having anything even close to "their tone".

Hell, even the vast majority(probably 98%) of well known touring/recording guitarists of the last 50 years don't have anything close to "their own sound". The handful that do develop a unique tone, it tends to just come naturally to them. This is very rare.

Just because someone plays a cover song with a different tone than the original, it doesn't make what they are doing original or unique in any way. They are just playing a cover song with a different tone(often not great, but always generic) How hard or unique is that??? It's much harder to actually sound like whatever iconic tone the song might have.

Even if they play an original song they wrote, the guitar tone is going to be something we've heard already. People won't say " hey you've put a new spin on guitar tone dude". lol

I know I know, some kid out there somewhere will create the next iconic tone. Yeah but that will just naturally happen to him even if he was trying to copy his heros tones or not. It's called destiny.Happens once in a blue moon.

Any of you guys that claim to have your own tone thing going on, please share your recordings or live performances with us!! We'll be the judge.
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I'm sorta with is in that, IMO, it does take *much* more work to be authentic in tone and playing vs. doing your own thing.

I could never see devoting so much time to it only to split 400 bucks 4 or 5 ways and schelp all the gear etc. etc.

It's a gas to play and especially when the crowd is diggin' it, but so much easier to just learn the signature parts, and have fun vs. obsessing over the note-for-note accuracy.

Richard
 
willowdale said:
All these guitarists claiming to "dial in their sound". In all my many years of hearing all the local bar/club guitarists(some very good players), I've yet to hear any of them having anything even close to "their tone".
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Yeah but wait. That's kind of not what I'm saying. It's not that one has to be original. It;s that one TRIES to sound like someone else. ONCE AGAIN it's totally fine by me if you do. I think that's great. It's more of a curiosity to me. It seems like either you're a cover band musician or a bedroom warrior. But when you turn "PRO" you're expected to suddenly have your own sound.

When I got my first record contract many years ago producers, engineers, managers were all trying to help me "get my own sound." It's not like I sounded like anybody else. I didn't sound like anything. I had a couple of amps: a Boogie and a Seymour Duncan and we spent hours working up tone for the record. LOL. Stupidest 4 hours I've ever spent.
 
Well folks...this has gone viral.

Last thing I'll say is that chasing another tone is one aspect about any individual's performance. If that tone INSPIRES you, then more power to you! Even if the audience doesn't care, YOU care, and you'll play all that much better.

Live and let live. It's all FUN. When you hit that tone (WHICHEVER tone that might be...yours or someone else's), that 'AHA' moment is what we all live for.

Ron
 
Henry,

For me, it's basically hearing a tone that I think sounds great and thinking to myself "wow what a great tone,
I wonder if I can get close to that tone with my Axe-Fx". As a side effect, you may actually discover many great tone variations that can lead to your own tone and/or inspire you to create new music and eventually do your own thing.
 
I play in a covers band and having the option to sound like an artist is fun (and the audiences seem to like it to although it's only ever guitarists who talk to me about it after the show; the average punter probably doesn't notice or seem to care). I have learned a great deal about the guitar and how to create tones using virtual effects thanks to the technology that is now available and this forum. In the 'real' world I would never have owned much of the gear that I can now emulate and I think my ear is better for the diverse experience that the Axe II offers.

That said, I'm not a writer of music but if I was, I'd be seriously grafting to create my own tone.
 
I think the main reason why I try to get the tone of other guitarists is simply because the tones I come up with on my own "suck". At least compared to the tones I like from other guitarists. So sue me...I suck at tweaking and dialing in tones and coming up with sounds on my own.
Just because I come up with something on my own and it's unique, doesn't automatically mean it sounds good or is a killer tone.
Those pro tones we all love im sure took many many hours to create. And If I can recreate that with tone matching, I'll take it.
I don't have hours upon hours to sit in a studio and tweak the days away. I wish I did. I wish that was my job, but its not.
If someone has a great tone and you love it, why not use it.
 
Part of it also is that I've never been a tone person. It was always the fingers for me. I always got a decent tone and had a few people that would follow, write down my settings or ask what I used. But to me, (only partially right) it was like - OK, but the tone is in the hands. So with the Fractal I've been looking more seriously at tone. But for me TONE is NEVER what motivated me for guitar. It was always the notes. So here in Fractal land and other gear-ish forums guitar is all about tone. I have my theories as to why. But I'll leave that for now.

AS a matter of fact it wasn't THE GUITAR that motivated me. I don't have a lot of guitar heros. As I said, which offended at least one person here, I think my whole take is rather unique. That doesn't mean better or worse. I listen to saxophone players, pianists and trumpet players before I listen to guitar players. Just for perspective for y'all here.
 
Interesting thread. Henry, having Mingus as a friend and mentor would certainly strengthen the "do it your own way" streak in you and I'm sure that's a big reason why you were drawn to one another. Mingus has long been one of my favs. I think people have effectively explored a lot of the reasons to cop someone else's tone. I've tried to do it a few times, always because I just loved a sound and wanted to see if I could make it. Also, to see what I'd learn about that sound. It was a revelation to me when I discovered drive pedals almost 3 decades ago. Suddenly all these sounds I loved, but couldn't begin to get from only a Silverface Princeton Reverb were available. A huge part of tone is in the hands, but we are for the most part playing ELECTRIC guitars here and the interaction of guitars, amps and effects is a big of electric players' sounds. With the Axes, many people have a chance to explore whole rigs that would never have been available to them without really serious $ and often the time to completely reconfigure one great rig into another.

I occasionally play around with the Axe this way, trying out bunches of patches to see what they do. It's rare that I come upon anything I'd use, but I find little snippets sometimes that I like. Mostly though, I use the Axe similarly to my pedals plus Fender (or whatever cleanish thing I'd use) amp setup. With the Axe I can have pedals on my "board" that wouldn't make it to my regular board, allowing me to get some different tone colors. I'm not attempting to emulate anyone exactly, though depending on what I'm playing, influences will likely be apparent. I just don't think I'm evolved enough as a musician to have a really original style, though I blend enough different influences that I don't sound quite like anyone else, either.

I have to admit it drives me nuts sometimes when working up a tune and someone will say, "hey that's not like xyz" or whatever version of the tune they know. In those situations, my response is a variation of Henry's. Yes, I know it's a cover (but more likely a blues/r&B/jazz thing), but I have no interest in sounding like the original. If there are things about the original that need to be there, fine, but I am trying to play it how I hear it (or how we might evolve to hear it). I'm a music junkie. I've gone to hear TONS of live music over the years as well as listening to tons of stuff. I know what various versions sound like and I don't want to do it just like any of them.

Some people are the opposite, including a bassist I play with a lot. He has the musical memory of an elephant for things he heard growing up. If he can recall just a little, the whole thing comes back. That's fine, but when I just want to use that as an outline, it rubs against his musical memory of what is "right." In my mind, I/we are the authorities of how a tune should go because we're the ones playing it who have to bring something to it. For him, I think whoever "they" are who played it is the authority and we're just trying to get it right. It's not quite that black and white with us, but somewhat.

So I'm not claiming quite the level of do-it-my-own way as Henry, but I really have no interest in playing something exactly like whatever (though I do want to play it well). I will though play something in a particular style that I know is very influenced by people I love without copying. That seems like a common way for people to become themselves. I've heard David Grissom talk about hearing someone who was using a B-bender, only he didn't know anything about the B-bender. So he spent all this time trying to sound like that with no B-bender. The result is the amazing bending technique that's so much a part of his style. I've heard many stories of musicians saying they were trying to capture something of someone they loved and in the process developed their own style.

Interesting topic.
 
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Admin M@ said:
Henry I admire you for saying this.

Once you're within striking range, the obsessive quest for great tone is a bad excuse for worse playing.
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I've changed my thoughts on this as I get older.

I personally wouldn't collect instruments and amps and never really learn how to play them, but I can now see how someone could get all their enjoyment in just setting up the rig vs. really ever learning how to play guitar.

Its just the pure enjoyment of the collecting or engineering of it. I don't do that but don't begrudge anybody if that's what sails their ship.

Richard
 
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