TOO MUCH SSSSSSIZZLE?? HELP PLEASE? GIVE THIS A LISTEN.

electronpirate said:
I'm just not sure why a small segment is having huge issues, when others are posting major success'.

R
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sorry... I forgot to comment on this... had to rush off...

me for sure and I imagine some others in the small segment that's struggling require huge amounts of compression to make the neck feel very light to the touch...
here's my theory:
the Axe can create the hi-gain sound but is missing some of this highly compressed feel..
when the drive [or input level to the amp] is piled on to generate that 'super light feel' I'm guessing that the highs [maybe 3k up] are getting very strongly accentuated...
but not in a nice smooth way...

you kind of end up stuck between a tonal rock and hard place..
back off the gain and you get the tone but lose the light touch
cut the highs and you lose the definition and get too dark
the fizz is not a small freq range either.. it seems to be quite wide and difficult to address..

that said... I have noticed that some cab types handle this better than others..
the Germans seem to smooth it out more than most..
but the side effect here is a big low end boost.. but that's much much easier to get under control...
mic types and proximity make a difference too...

now that I think that I'm making good ground I'm getting less worried about it...
although when I eventually get into a rehearsal studio with my backline cranked I'll have a much better idea of how this will pan out...

however.... lol....
the lower gain folk will [and it seems they are] have a ball with this...
and it makes total sense too.. this added brightness will give their tone a little more bite and edge in a very cool way...

so it's just us mindless shredders that have a bit of a puzzle to solve... lol..
 
Sorry if this has been mentioned already. I don't have time to read every word of the thread.

But would you need to put a compressor in front of the real amps to get the kind of tone(s) you guys are going for? If the V 6.0 amp models are highly accurate and behave the same way as the real amps, then why would you need to put a compressor in the chain, plus various EQs to dial in the sound(s) you want?
 
jshirkey said:
Sorry if this has been mentioned already. I don't have time to read every word of the thread.

But would you need to put a compressor in front of the real amps to get the kind of tone(s) you guys are going for? If the V 6.0 amp models are highly accurate and behave the same way as the real amps, then why would you need to put a compressor in the chain, plus various EQs to dial in the sound(s) you want?
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some people like even dynamics and use compressors to keep it consistent. As for the eq, some people know what they're looking for on the frequency spectrum. There are eq pedals and 31 band eq racks so it isn't a new concept.
 
I noticed the 'sizzle' too :/ What I think it is, is that real amps ARE like this, BUT because it's the Axe FX, we're so used to the 'processed' sound which to be honest even I prefer (sonically). HOWEVER, I notice that the feel of the amps is actually getting close to the actual thing, I'm sick of hearing people say "omg its just like the real thing it feels the same". Well, for the first time the AC30 feels different than the rectifier models and then those different than the bogners and so on. I think it would be really great for us users of the Axe FX, if Fractal could find out exactly how to make it sound (using EQs or filters etc or whatever tweaking) how it did before, without the processing, so we could get sonically what we had before with the superior current feel, so that we could use it if we felt like it.

Personally I would rather have the feel of the amps and have to tweak post processing, so that's why I'm not going back to firmware 5, but it is more of a hassle for me to get a tone that I like, but then go in and put a PEQ and tweak all sorts of knobs etc. Or do it post processing via protools etc. Thats just my opinion on it. Luckily I don't do TOO much in the high gain area, but I know when I have people record with me (I have a home studio that I sometimes record bands, i don't claim to be a huge producer haha) it's MUCH easier for me to have the sound that I like with very little processing.
 
@Sean

Maybe youre right . BUT this doesnt explain why some AXE II ver 6.0 sound different than others - WITH the same patch.

AAEN
 
AAEN said:
@Sean

Maybe youre right . BUT this doesnt explain why some AXE II ver 6.0 sound different than others - WITH the same patch.

AAEN
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Maybe different guitars? And I wasn't aware of that issue :/ All I know is that I was getting TONS of sizzle, (this is after my post btw) and then turned off my Axe and then came back about 20 min later and i noticed there wasn't as much. I thought it was just my ears, but maybe it's something else idk
 
AAEN said:
@Sean

Maybe youre right . BUT this doesnt explain why some AXE II ver 6.0 sound different than others - WITH the same patch.

AAEN
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I think the difference is that FAS did a lot of work on the power amp part of the amp block in 6.0
this has altered the the overall sound of the Axe

I guess these developments have differing impacts to different types of amps...
a lot of folk love it, some others don't..
it's all down to your personal needs...
 
Sammetal91 said:
some people like even dynamics and use compressors to keep it consistent. As for the eq, some people know what they're looking for on the frequency spectrum. There are eq pedals and 31 band eq racks so it isn't a new concept.
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Right, but that's not my point. My point is that if people can get the sound they are looking for using the real amps without comps and EQs, and if the Axe II's models are more realistic than ever, then what's the need for adding comps/EQs in the Axe to fix these problems? Shouldn't the solution lie in tweaking parameters within the amp models instead?

Of course you can add comps/eqs and anything you please if you so desire, but that wasn't what I was getting at.
 
I agree with that. Sometimes people suggest over the top solutions to a simple problem. Made up example: my clean amp is distorting. OK! Take a PEQ and put it in front of the amp and cut all the bass. Then go into amp advanced and change the definition to 8.56 and adjust the transformer HF to taste. Then attach a modifier to the drive parameter using an ADSR. Adding a slight chorus in a parallel row will help spread the sound too. finally, cut all the 1k in the amp eq section because 1 is the loneliest number.

When really all you had to do was turn down the master volume. :)

I love that the axe can do all these complex things, but troubleshooting, especially to new users, maybe we should focus on the basics (which usually does trick) before resorting to the advance stuff, if possible.
 
Hey Clarky!
I seem to remember back around v2 you worked some magic with a JCM 800 preset. Along with several variances (hot, hotter, hottest), that JCM 800 was my 'go to' patch right on through to v6. But now I'm having a tough time dialing it in to my liking. Any chance of you running it up the flag pole?

I always enjoy your commentary! :)
 
jshirkey said:
Right, but that's not my point. My point is that if people can get the sound they are looking for using the real amps without comps and EQs, and if the Axe II's models are more realistic than ever, then what's the need for adding comps/EQs in the Axe to fix these problems? Shouldn't the solution lie in tweaking parameters within the amp models instead?

Of course you can add comps/eqs and anything you please if you so desire, but that wasn't what I was getting at.
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Ahh I see. Well the issue is simply this: the Axe II may emulate a tube amp better than ever, but the tone knobs are matched to like 10% of what the original tone knobs of the amps do. That means that it is NOT a carbon copy of the tube amp in question and thus a person should not expect instant gratification. However, most 6.0 users have indeed found what they are looking for with basic parameters. Not everyone thinks the same or likes the same tone, hence this thread. Better? :)
 
jshirkey said:
Right, but that's not my point. My point is that if people can get the sound they are looking for using the real amps without comps and EQs, and if the Axe II's models are more realistic than ever, then what's the need for adding comps/EQs in the Axe to fix these problems? Shouldn't the solution lie in tweaking parameters within the amp models instead?

Of course you can add comps/eqs and anything you please if you so desire, but that wasn't what I was getting at.
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jshirkey,

I think you (and others) might be overlooking a basic component in your assessment that: "The Axe-FX II is so realistic, why does it require so many "fixes/tweaks" to get a good result as compared to the equivalent REAL-AMP that it is modelling." I can understand your displeasure with all of said "tweakage - EQ's; compressors; etc. HOWEVER, I think what might be getting overlooked is the simple fact that the REAL-AMPS that the Axe-FX II is modelling are (mostly) tube-amps with speaker-cabs specifically voiced to accentuate the type of tone which that amp is known for. (I.E: Marshall Plexi-->Greenback-25 4x12"s; Vox Ac-30TB-->Vox/Celestion JMI-Blue 2x12" (combo); Diezel VH-4-->Celestion Vintage-30 4x12"; etc. - you get my point...) Also, "tube back-end/output-amps" are much more forgiving in general and tend to smooth-out certain amounts of harshness (a.k.a. "fizz") in certain frequency-ranges. In my experiments in FW-6.0 so far, Disabling Power-sims and Cab-sims and running into a tube power-amp and celestion-equipped cab sounds awesome...for amps that WOULD sound awesome with EL34-tubes (what I'm using) and G-12/75 celestion 4x12 (Marshall 1960A) which I am also using! Do you know what sounded even better across the board with minimal tweaks? Power-sims=ON and Cab-sims=ON through my little M-AUDIO nearfield-monitors cranked-up a bit! Seriously killer! Makes me want to start trying out full FRFR systems...The worst tones I've gotten has been the "tweener-rig" where I turn Power-sims=ON with a neutral solid-state amp, but run it into the real cab (Cab-sims=OFF.) So far, those sre my conclusions...Still working it though!

Anyways, I'm learning this stuff the hard way ("trial-and-error") but I think trhese are valuable lessons for us to learn for us to eventually fully understand and get the most out of our Axe-FX II's. (...Albeit, this approaxh requires a lot of effort and patience - LOL!)

Best of luck in your tonal-pursuits!

Bill
 
I encountered the same "issue" (for me, not for the 6.0 update probably).
This is how the factory preset 037 - DasMetal sounds with my guitar:


Does your 6.0 037 - DasMetal preset sounds the same?



p.s. The same high-end exists in other high-gain presets excepting the clean-tone presets which sound very good (this is because I think that this is a feature).
I would know how to remove it without resorting to 5.xx.
 
Hobot said:
I encountered the same "issue" (for me, not for the 6.0 update probably).
This is how the factory preset 037 - DasMetal sounds with my guitar:


Does your 6.0 037 - DasMetal preset sounds the same?



p.s. The same high-end exists in other high-gain presets excepting the clean-tone presets which sound very good (this is because I think that this is a feature).
I would know how to remove it without resorting to 5.xx.
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What's wrong with that? Sounds exactly like the amp. Confused....
 
FractalAudio said:
What's wrong with that? Sounds exactly like the amp. Confused....
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Fractal Like i said in my previous posts, theres nothing WRONG with it, but as we are all used to having the processed guitar sound as in recording into a DAW with no post processing or playing live without EQs etc. This DOES sound like an actual amp, but the Axe FX has been used by everyone to be more than an amp, to be the whole amp rig essentially. I'm not trying to be rude, as it clearly does sound good, but for some of the higher gain presets, it requires a lot of work to try and get rid of the 'fizz' or 'sizzle'. That is usually what's eqd OUT of the signal afterwards. If you could provide an explanation on how to remove the fizz. Not the true amp fizz, but the very harsh high end that wouldn't mix well with anything.
 
FractalAudio said:
What's wrong with that? Sounds exactly like the amp. Confused....
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You are right, I just hope to know how to get more "processed" sound and more tight bass :)

That said, this is a recording of a real tube amp -> V30 cab -> SM57: (Axe II 6.0 is very close)

 
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