TOO MUCH SSSSSSIZZLE?? HELP PLEASE? GIVE THIS A LISTEN.

That sizzle wouldn't work in any recording. You would have to try and EQ all that out. From a direct signal I would rather have the already recorded and mixed guitar sound like you said and not a buzz saw like I'm getting.
 
schlagdog said:
That constant SSSSSS sound is about right? I sure hope it isn't.
Click to expand...
When you mix this sample guitar with ,as you say, constant ssssssssss" in the mix it will sound perfect... As a long time studio guy from your clip I can clearly see how much better is FW V6 from the rest of FWs before..
 
there seems to be a strong difference of opinion here...
I can only guess that those that use a little gain like this extra 'energy'.. and the higher gain users may not because it can be a bit oppressive..

Schlagdog - have you tried running your tone through one of the German 4x12 cabs?
to my ears, these IR's have been captured at greater distances that many of the others...
so the highs are a little more surpressed [and less fried] and the low end is very strong [which you can counter via a mic with a low proximity setting and maybe a little Amp:EQ tweaking]..

I'm conducting experiments with this right now and finding that I'm having to EQ out a low of deep bass and bring the highs right up...
I can't say that I've 100% found a solution just yet.. however, these cabs seem to offer some 'smoothing' out of the highs..
 
Transformer match may help

Rane said :Yeah, I noticed the increase in "fizz" too. I love it. The increased fizz is absolutely consistent with my real tube amp. That said, I was messing with v6 parameters in an older version of Axe-Edit (I don't update often) and I noticed that the "Power Tube Gain" parameter (which doesn't seem to be in the current axe-edit) affected the amount of fizz noticeably. Not sure what the current equivalent to this parameter is.



FractalAudio said:
Power Tube Gain was remapped to Transformer Match.
Click to expand...

Hey everyone, I am fairly new here. Great forum ! A lot of great tips and help I have read here.

Anyone with this "fizz" issue tried adjusting the transformer match knob in the "dynamics tab" yet , since it replaced the power tube gain parameter ? I am wondering if it helps at all ?

I am receiving my brand new axe fx ll this morning. Out for delivery from UPS :mrgreen, and want to see if this helped ? I bought the axe fx ll because I want to get the soaring leads without any of the artifacts and fizz of the less expensive modelers. I may stick with previous firmware version if this is normal. I do understand that real amps produce many of these traits, but I don't like those fizzy real amps.

In any event, I am psyched

I am sure I will be posting questions .

Thanks

Jerry
 
it didn't make much difference for me either..
I had more success by using very low master vol settings.. values of 2 or less
 
clarky said:
it didn't make much difference for me either..
I had more success by using very low master vol settings.. values of 2 or less
Click to expand...
That's what did it for me as well... and I think I posted that suggestion earlier in this thread.
 
Thomas Larsson said:
About sizzle and fizz
Here are some rythm files of my small EL84 amp (JCM800 preamp) with some poweramp-distortion:

http://www.thomaslarsson.org/mp3/GIT 1#188.aif
http://www.thomaslarsson.org/mp3/GIT 4#47.aif
http://www.thomaslarsson.org/mp3/Git2#179.aif


This is a Lonestar with no poweramp distortion (I think).

http://www.thomaslarsson.org/mp3/GIT 1#243.aif

That´s how my amps sound in reality. They sound pretty good in a mix in spite of this sizzle.
Click to expand...

dude... those tones are really rather nice....
not what we're all talking about though...
try a 5150, VH4 or JVM with the gain set to stun and you'll immediately hear what all the fuss is about...
 
Genghis said:
That's what did it for me as well... and I think I posted that suggestion earlier in this thread.
Click to expand...

right now I'm experimenting with the 4x12 German and different mics..
that seems to help some too..
with some mics though this cab has an overly huge bottom end..
but not in a good way like some girlies I know...
but your can reduce it with a PEQ...
which I'm sure the girlies I know wish they could do too...
 
clarky said:
right now I'm experimenting with the 4x12 German and different mics..
that seems to help some too..
with some mics though this cab has an overly huge bottom end..
but not in a good way like some girlies I know...
but your can reduce it with a PEQ...
which I'm sure the girlies I know wish they could do too...
Click to expand...

Twould help if you posted any recorded guitar tone that you're going for. Then others can give it a run. The statement 'All high gain amps have too much/not enough sizzle is a little vague in this context. (Please no 'anything by Disturbed' or some such. A specific song...)

I'm just not sure why a small segment is having huge issues, when others are posting major success'.

R
 
electronpirate said:
Twould help if you posted any recorded guitar tone that you're going for. Then others can give it a run. The statement 'All high gain amps have too much/not enough sizzle is a little vague in this context. (Please no 'anything by Disturbed' or some such. A specific song...)

I'm just not sure why a small segment is having huge issues, when others are posting major success'.

R
Click to expand...

ok I'll try...
Alter Bridge: Come to Life

and a different one
Van Halen: I'm the One
 
clarky said:
ok I'll try...
Alter Bridge: Come to Life

and a different one
Van Halen: I'm the One
Click to expand...

it's not just the tone though... it's having enough gain for the neck to feel sensitive [which is of course good for the shred-heads players]
 
electronpirate said:
I'm just not sure why a small segment is having huge issues, when others are posting major success'.
R
Click to expand...

It's also kinda off-putting to potential new customers to see this splice between viewpoints also. Especially when they (or I !!) have such little experience with the Axe FX. Is there a bug? Is it by design? Etc... etc...
 
electronpirate said:
Twould help if you posted any recorded guitar tone that you're going for. Then others can give it a run. The statement 'All high gain amps have too much/not enough sizzle is a little vague in this context. (Please no 'anything by Disturbed' or some such. A specific song...)

I'm just not sure why a small segment is having huge issues, when others are posting major success'.

R
Click to expand...


dude... I think I've just hit the BINGO ! ! ! combination....

I'm running a 5150 left, a VH4 right...
they're putting out some gain too...
the master vol for both is less than 2
I have a compressor before the amps to smooth up everything on the way into the amps, but also to help with sensitivity...

de-fizzing:
- stereo cab with [for now at least] both types 4x12 German
EDIT: this cab softens the top end a little too much
- mic = E609 Dyn
EDIT: this mic puts back some of the top and softens the lows a touch
- Cab prox = 0 cos it's a real low end centric cab type
- amp presence is 3 in both.. cos you need those highs to get fried by the gain.. dropping them to low kills the definition and energy..

PEQ [before the cab]
- a little -4 dB cut at 2.4KHz, Q=6
- the highs a flat and if anything may need a little boost.. lol..
- the lows need a little tweak to calm them but nothing serious...

GUYS - Hi-gain can be done in 6.0... it really can...
you just have to look real hard for it...
but jeez.. to my ears it sounds like it has the potential to be killer...
 
I don't have to look real hard for hi-gain in 6.0. I just turn on preset 25 (6160) and it works great for me.

Your issues are subjective IMO. As far as I can tell there's only one other user besides yourself that has an issue with the high end in 6.0. I am glad you found a solution that meets your needs and hopefully we can put this issue to rest.
 
Had an hour to play, Version 6 pre loaded. All Presets played and sounded good. Not detecting any Sizzle thankfully ! I went thru the first 50 quickly, but had a little chance to explore the areas and tweaked a little. Very cool so far ...

i played thru Monotors and a TM60 return.
 
High-Gain Fizz...Solutions...

clarky said:
I have a compressor before the amps to smooth up everything on the way into the amps, but also to help with sensitivity...
Click to expand...

clarky,

I get the concept of using a compressor to "smooth-things-out-a-bit" on the way into the front-end of an amp. I do similar things to certain clean-tones, and on certain "edge-of-breakup" type tones too. However, I usually refrain from doing so with "High-Gain" tones, since they seem so "self-compressing" in character to begin with... That said, if one DID want to roll their volume back whilst using such a high-gain tone, wouldn't a compressor make it more difficult to wrestle a cleaner and more-dynamic (quieter) tone out of the compressed high-gain tone? Are you talking about a compressor setup with a relatively HIGH threshhold, so that it only kicks in when playing pretty hard, so when you roll the volume down your tone remains below the compressor's threshhold, and thusly, remains "un-compressed?" Or are you talking about TRYING to have a slightly compressed tone even with the volume rolled-back and subsequently, mandating a "lower threshhold parameter-value" (either manually or via a real-time MIDI-controller move which I know you are fond of - LOL! Do you actually do intricate "inverse-volume tied to compressor-parameter-changes" in your "modifiers/real-time MIDI-control pedals?" Just curious?)

Anyways, the bigger/more-direct question here is, could you elaborate on the compressor type and parameter-settings to get this "sensitivity" that you speak of, and if your definition of sensitivity is NOT what I think (volume rolled-down & playing softer) then could you explain that too? Thanks for your insight and patience with me on these questions. I like your general approach and descriptions of things BTW!

Bill




clarky said:
GUYS - Hi-gain can be done in 6.0... it really can...
you just have to look real hard for it...
but jeez.. to my ears it sounds like it has the potential to be killer...
Click to expand...

clarky,

I had faith all along (the watchtower) baby! I knew the sky wasn't falling - LOL!

That all said, don't be surprised if a certain forum/user (I'm NOT naming names...) chimes in with "I have five (5) awesome REAL/tube high-gain amps sitting right next to me, and none of them exhibit such "fizz."...Or in my five (5) awesome REAL tube-amps, I don't have to tweak for hours on end to get rid of "fizz" which was never there in the first place, because real-amps DON'T HAVE SUCH FIZZ! ...Just be prepared!

P.S. You showed a very methodical & patient approach to defining and solving YOUR issue with excessive-fizz in YOUR implementation of the Axe-FX II's higher-gain models! You are to be commended for such patience and methodology!

Bill
 
AndyTNBD said:
It's also kinda off-putting to potential new customers to see this splice between viewpoints also. Especially when they (or I !!) have such little experience with the Axe FX. Is there a bug? Is it by design? Etc... etc...
Click to expand...

dude... I do not think it's a bug.... I think it's part of the tonal evolution of the unit...
when a major firmware drop like this lands the Axe does get better... it really does....
that said.. some of the fellas [like me] that live at the more extreme ends of tone may have to compensate here and there on occasion..
v6.0 just happened to effect us hi-gain types more than the others...
this 'thing' we're experiencing can be dialled out...
the beauty of this forum is that we'll suffer together initially... and solve it together...
there are some very smart and willing guys in here...
like all things.. you're often only a few clicks and twiddles from where you want to be..
collectively we'll find them...
 
hey Bill
my approach to hi-gain tone is highly different...
you're right of course... hi-gain is self compressing.. that said... the compressor I'm using is set quite gently..
it just soften the highs a little and smoothes things out a little..
when it comes to cleaning up the tone.. I do this via an expression pedal rather than guitar volume control...
so I go about this in a whole different way...
when I clean up.. the gain obviously reduces.. but I put the low end back that thins out, I add a stereo pitch shifter for sweetening, reverb is introduced..
the compressor remains in the same state dirty and clean... it's roll when the tone is 'cleaned' is to avoid the tone getting 'brittle' by providing a little 'thickening'...
to me this is far prettier and more expressive than simply turning down.. and in addition, I get to keep my hands on the playing surfaces..
I use type=pedal, sustain=3... so it's nothing extraordinary...
when I hit my 'solo' mode switch, a volume pedal after the compressor kicks in and gives a major signal boost into the amp blocks..
this is how the additional 'soloing gain' is generated..

the sensitivity I describe is actually the opposite of what you're thinking...
essentially... no dynamics... almost none at all...
it provides extremely even tone and allows extremely light fretting pressures...
perfect for very high speed licks / legato etc...
performance wise you have to really nail the muting side of things because the guitar becomes super sensitive to spurious noises.. especially at gig volumes..
playing soft is pretty much the same tone as digging in.... so as you can guess... I'm not a blueser... lol...
that said... when I want the dynamics to return, I back of with the EXP pedal to 1/2 to 2/3 toe down [so the amp drive and input-trim reduce] and all the dynamics return..
at this point I can choose to be a blueser... lol...

real amps and "the fizz"....
yup they do it too... I know this from experiences with the 5150, VH4 and Herbert...
and the fizz is good too.. it helps with definition and generates a sense of high energy...
that said... the fizz generated by these fellas in the flesh seems [if my ears recall correctly] to be somehow smoother and more pleasing..

"P.S. You showed a very methodical & patient approach to defining and solving YOUR issue with excessive-fizz in YOUR implementation of the Axe-FX II's higher-gain models! You are to be commended for such patience and methodology!"

thanks dude... it's very cool of you to say so....
there are a couple of us with a little problem to solve...
I'm just being systematic and trying to find my tonal utopia...
if I nail it others should be able to also... we're all [us hi-gainers] in this together..
when I think I've solved it I'll post a clip...
 
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