• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Spring Reverbs?

DavidE

Power User
wanting to hear something that sounds big and lush like the reverb on a '64 BF fender reverb amp. I haven't played around with much of anything in the settings because frankly, i'm not sure what I should be adjusting.
This is to me both the strength and weakness of the Fractal products. From what I've seen so far, lots of the sounds people ask for can be produced by the existing hardware and software but users don't know what or how to dial it in. For example, the Memory Man delay and the other effect added at the same time. The sounds had been in the box for a long time, but until a user dialed it in and Fractal shared it people kept asking for it. When it was added as a preset in the delay block, people were amazed and thankful but it was there all along.

Jack: You have a great ear. Start "turning knobs" and see what you come up with. You might be the guy who finds that perfect spring reverb that's hiding in the box!
 

DavidE

Power User
Have to admit, I did not play with the large reverb but will give it a try.

Just had a listen to the demo and downloaded this patch but while it sounds great, is not really the big, luscious reverb i had with my '64 princeton reverb.
@ethomas1013 Want to come over and see if we can match my '65 Princeton Reverb's reverb? LOL.
 

jzucker

Inspired
Have to admit, I did not play with the large reverb but will give it a try.

Just had a listen to the demo and downloaded this patch but while it sounds great, is not really the big, luscious reverb i had with my '64 princeton reverb.
Tried the large reverb and it was too much.
 

Morphosis

Fractal Fanatic
I'll have to work on this when I get back home. I like the verbs, been using the London Plate a lot, but haven't done a lot with the spring verbs. I have a 64 Fender Super Reverb I can compare it with, so might be a fun project!
This would be great! I have to say, dialing in a "fenderish" spring reverb is one of the few things i`ve had never luck to get out something satisfying. Some suggestions from someone, who can directly compare to the real deal would be great!
 

mr_fender

Fractal Fanatic
The EQ of the reverb makes a big difference. Turning up the spring tone a bit really brings out the bright boingy quality, especially for surf tones. I also find it helps to push up the midrange in the EQ tab so that it is a bit above unity gain (horizontal line in EQ graph). It makes it more ringing and old school and less hi-fi sounding. Roll of some off the highs to keep it from getting shrill.
 
Last edited:

DavidE

Power User
For authentic spring reverb sound you want the reverb in front of the amp block. A big reason spring reverbs sound the way they do is that they get colored by the amp.
Is this the audio path even in a combo amp like the Princeton Reverb, Deluxe, Twin, Pro, Super etc..?

I think my outboard Fender spring reverb unit sounds different than the reverb in my combos (vintage PR, Vibrolux and Super) which makes sense since I'm going through the tube preamp of the reverb unit and then feeding all that into the input of another amp.
 

mr_fender

Fractal Fanatic
It's always before the power section in any amp. In many Fenders it is mixed in after the tone stacks and second gain stage of the preamp. The Vibro-King amp was a bit different and actually had a complete circuit of the standalone '63 tube reverb unit at the very input of the amp complete with dwell, tone, and mix controls for the reverb. The '63 reverb unit is a different design than what is in the rest of Fender's tube amps. The vibrato (tremolo) circuit does its thing after the reverb as well, so you get pulsing reverb tails. If you put tremolo before the reverb it won't sound the same as the amps.
 

DavidE

Power User
It's always before the power section in any amp. In many Fenders it is mixed in after the tone stacks and second gain stage of the preamp. The Vibro-King amp was a bit different and actually had a complete circuit of the standalone '63 tube reverb unit at the very input of the amp complete with dwell, tone, and mix controls for the reverb. The '63 reverb unit is a different design than what is in the rest of Fender's tube amps. The vibrato (tremolo) circuit does its thing after the reverb as well, so you get pulsing reverb tails. If you put tremolo before the reverb it won't sound the same as the amps.
This was my understanding.

Perhaps I'm confused by Cliff's terminology. "For authentic spring reverb sound you want the reverb in front of the amp block. A big reason spring reverbs sound the way they do is that they get colored by the amp."

When I think of an "amp block" on the AX8, I'm thinking it's both the preamp and power amp together. So if I go to an AMP block, choose Deluxe Vib, I'm choosing the preamp and poweramp together. If I put the spring reverb block before the "AMP" block, the reverb is now before the preamp and not between the preamp and power amp like an effects loop. Is it possible to put anything between the preamp and power amp sections of an amp block on an AX8, AxeII etc...?
 

Fl7x

Experienced
For authentic spring reverb sound you want the reverb in front of the amp block. A big reason spring reverbs sound the way they do is that they get colored by the amp.
To be more specific, spring reverbs are usually placed between the preamp and the power-amp, isn't? So it's colored by the power-amp section.
I'm not a big fan of spring reverbs, but correct me if I'm wrong, please.

EDIT: Damn, some folks discussed just that, already.
That's what happens when you reply without reading every post :p
 

Fl7x

Experienced
Is it possible to put anything between the preamp and power amp sections of an amp block on an AX8, AxeII etc...?
Nope... I think what Cliff wanted to say is "To be more authentic (...)" not "To be totally accurate". It would be more authetic to put the reverb block before the amp block rather than after it.

It won't be totally accurate either way because the spring reverb is between the preamp and power amp section of the amp and you cannot put any effect between both in the Axe.
 

joegold

Fractal Fanatic
Since Cliff has never wanted to expose the connection between the virt preamp and virt power amp in the Amp Block, either by implementing separate preamp and power amp effects blocks or some other means, maybe we could convince him to include parameters for spring reverb within the Amp Block itself with placement of the reverb in the authetic signal path of most Fender combo amps namely, pre-power amp.
He cold keep a spring rev rev type in the Reverb Block for folks who prefer placing pre or post Amp Block.

The down side of course would be CPU usage.

Of all the time-based effects that guitarists tend to use, I can't think of another one that would really benefit from being pre-power amp except for spring reverb.
Anything else really should go after the power amp, or for a less hi-fi sound - pre-preamp, as in using rev and/or delay pedals in front and real amp with no effects loop.

Just spitballing here.

Thanks for bringing this up Jack.

When I was preparing for a theatre show involving some 60s guitar cues (Sweet Charity) last year around this time, I had originally planned to use my Axe-FX on the gig but ended up using a combo amp and some pedals instead mostly because I didn't want to put out the cash for a backup Axe-FX at the time, not due to any other failing of the Axe.
But when I was originally trying to set it all up on the Axe, I went with the idea that Cliff just suggested of placing the Reverb Block (with a spring rev type sim) pre-Amp Block and it did sound more realistic than it did post-Amp Block.
Still not all there though.

I usually don't use spring reverb at all in my own music.
Still.... T'would be nice to have this inside the black box for a rainy day.
 

jzucker

Inspired
I like your suggestion Joey, I'd love to see that option. I actually like spring reverb for doing older jazz standards ala martino, benson, wes but I agree that there are much better reverbs out there and that they sound better after the cab.

Reverb before the amp sounds fine for clean stuff for the most part.
 

DavidE

Power User
Since Cliff has never wanted to expose the connection between the virt preamp and virt power amp in the Amp Block, either by implementing separate preamp and power amp effects blocks or some other means, maybe we could convince him to include parameters for spring reverb within the Amp Block itself with placement of the reverb in the authetic signal path of most Fender combo amps namely, pre-power amp.
He cold keep a spring rev rev type in the Reverb Block for folks who prefer placing pre or post Amp Block.

The down side of course would be CPU usage.
I'd love to see this feature in certain amps like vintage Fender models and some others. BUT, like you say, the question will be CPU usage, especially on the AX8. Even though a spring reverb is a low CPU effect, if it's embedded in the amp model, the amp block cpu usage will increase. Since the AX8 processes effects and amps in different DSPs, who knows if it's even possible to embed an effect in an amp block, although there is a compressor. I guess there could be 4 amp blocks per amps set up this way. For example, Deluxe Nml (no reverb - NR), Deluxe Vib NR, Deluxe Nml w/R and Deluxe Vib w/R.

Just stream of unconscious thought there.....
 

jzucker

Inspired
I think you guys are making it way more complicated than it has to be.

Simply introduce a fender preamp "pedal" and a fender power amp. then add an option to bypass the preamp section of the amplifier. Simple! ;)

I'd love to see this feature in certain amps like vintage Fender models and some others. BUT, like you say, the question will be CPU usage, especially on the AX8. Even though a spring reverb is a low CPU effect, if it's embedded in the amp model, the amp block cpu usage will increase. Since the AX8 processes effects and amps in different DSPs, who knows if it's even possible to embed an effect in an amp block, although there is a compressor. I guess there could be 4 amp blocks per amps set up this way. For example, Deluxe Nml (no reverb - NR), Deluxe Vib NR, Deluxe Nml w/R and Deluxe Vib w/R.

Just stream of unconscious thought there.....
 
Top Bottom