Problem with modifiers! FIXED IN Q3.02!

SoProg

SoProg

Inspired
Hello all,
This is my first post, but I've been lurking since last October, learning as much as I can before I got my AX8.

So, I just got the ax8 and am loving it. There was a concern about being able to have a good clean and a good dirty sound in the same preset with reasonable switching time, and some solutions I've heard are
1) use amp X/Y and deal with the lag.
2) don't use a clean amp, and make due with compressor and pedal for cleans.
3) use modifiers to mess with amp settings to make an amp sound clean.
I brought my setup to rehearsal today, and I'm in a "progressive" metal band that plays clean and distorted about equal amounts of time within each song. I tried solutions 1 and 2, and 2 would have worked, but the clean tone without an amp was really lacking for me, no matter how I adjusted the comp/drive/eq blocks.
So I spent hours tonight creating a preset that uses option 3, and it works great, except for one HUGE problem...
I set up the input drive to be about 1 in scene 1, and 7 in scene 3 using the scene triggered modifier on a Recto. Sounds great, but naturally, on the clean scene I had to make up for the drastic loss in volume. So I put a filter after the amp block to pretty much equal the volume between my low gain scene and my drive that is bypassed in scene 3. I thought I was happy, but when I went to test it, there is a LOUD burst of noise when switching between scene 3 back to 1.
It seems to be happening because the modifier doesn't work instantly, so, the ax8 is switching everything on and off as it should for the scenes, but the modifier function takes a second (well, like, a 1/8th of a second) to catch up, meaning that for a short time, the filter boost is turned on and the input gain is still at the high setting.
I spent about two hours trying every combination of settings in the modifier edit window to fix this, and although I can make the graph do a lot of things, I can't make it a vertical line AND against either edge of the graph (using ax8 edit).

This is hard to explain but I bet some of you are with me on it.
The problem exists going the other way too, from low to high gain, but in that direction, it's just a negligible lag turning up the input drive, and not a problem at all.

Sooo....
I'm really worried that option 3 for having a nice clean tone as well as a nice drive tone without lag is also not going to work for me, and in that case I might not be able to keep the ax8.

Any advice from you experienced users will be greatly appreciated, either about the modifier lag, or clean/distorted switching in general.

Thanks in advance, and I'm glad to finally be a Fractal Audio user! :)
 
You can attach way more than 1 parameter to the scene controller (24 I think?). Attach the Amp block 'Level' parameter to the same scene controller and set the min. and max. to whatever you need.

And you also have 2 scene controllers.
 
The loud burst of noise when changing scenes is a surprise. How much damping do you have in your modifiers? For instant changes, set Damp to zero.

Meanwhile, you can skip the filter. Use two Scene modifiers: one for Input Drive and one for Level in the amp block.


By the way, the slope of the modifier curve doesn't have anything to do with how fast a block goes in and out of bypass.
 
Hey thanks for the quick replies guys!

But, as expected, it seems like I didn't do a very clear job explaining..

Rex said:
The loud burst of noise when changing scenes is a surprise. How much damping do you have in your modifiers? For instant changes, set Damp to zero.

Meanwhile, you can skip the filter. Use two Scene modifiers: one for Input Drive and one for Level in the amp block.


By the way, the slope of the modifier curve doesn't have anything to do with how fast a block goes in and out of bypass.
Click to expand...


The damp and everything else is set as fast as possible, but the transition from one to the other position on the input drive knob is not instant, whereas the other changes in the scene are. And, I'm not thinking the modifier curve has anything to do with bypass, only the shape of the transition being made, which is what I'm having a problem with.

And, both of you who have replied so far, I don't know how I'm missing this... but at least in ax8 edit, the level in the amp block is not a modifiable parameter... is that just me?




I was hoping you would chime in Chris, here is the preset:



Thanks guys!
 

Attachments

  • Oneamp Recto MOD.syx
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Oh I forgot to mention the first time,
the Filter block wasn't the only solution I tried.
I had a similar result when trying to use the master output level in the output mixer.
 
You've got a huge difference in levels between Scene 1 and Scene 2. Scene 2 is clipping like crazy.

If you change scenes from the hardware, with Axe-Edit paused (F8), the scene change is instant.
 
And you're right: Amp Level isn't modifiable. I'm used to doing it on the Axe-Fx, and I've forgotten that little fact more than once. :)
 
Rex said:
You've got a huge difference in levels between Scene 1 and Scene 2. Scene 2 is clipping like crazy.

If you change scenes from the hardware, with Axe-Edit paused (F8), the scene change is instant.
Click to expand...


Hey thanks a lot for a taking a look at that for me.
It's certainly not instant for me, even with ax8 disconnected, and after rebooting.
Maybe I made a mistake in how I exported the preset for you guys,


It's getting late where I am so I'm calling it for now.

Thanks again for your help.
 
Two things, first I had to back the FILTER block LEVEL down. I chose about -2dB. Second, I had to change SCENE 3 of the SCENE CONTROLLER to about 80%. That got rid of all the crazy clipping. Clipping is definitely going to make things sound BAD. Also, I am running V3.01 which is due to hit the streets very soon. Given all of this, I did not experience any weirdness. V3.01 fixes issues we were having with regards to controllers on the Input Drive of the amp block. So, stand by for the next release.

In the meantime, try getting rid of all the clipping. That may fix issue.
 
Joe Rogers said:
Two things, first I had to back the FILTER block LEVEL down. I chose about -2dB. Second, I had to change SCENE 3 of the SCENE CONTROLLER to about 80%. That got rid of all the crazy clipping. Clipping is definitely going to make things sound BAD. Also, I am running V3.01 which is due to hit the streets very soon. Given all of this, I did not experience any weirdness. V3.01 fixes issues we were having with regards to controllers on the Input Drive of the amp block. So, stand by for the next release.

In the meantime, try getting rid of all the clipping. That may fix issue.
Click to expand...

So it can be possible set modifieres to Amp Level? It works in AX8 but only on preset exported from Axe II.
 
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