Moving to fractal from helix, need help!

Hit your local store this week and buy some yamaha HS5's or equivalent (known decent setup). See what that changes. Return them if the difference is negligible/funds need it. Better still, rent if you're able.

Are HS5's okay without additional sub woofers - if anyone is using those. Just seen a review which said you're better off getting a pair of sub's to go with those whereas the HS7 is a bit bigger and has better bass so you don't need the sub. My guitar room is fairly small, probably about 4m x 3m
 
Are HS5's okay without additional sub woofers - if anyone is using those. Just seen a review which said you're better off getting a pair of sub's to go with those whereas the HS7 is a bit bigger and has better bass so you don't need the sub. My guitar room is fairly small, probably about 4m x 3m

Given most music consumers listen on tiny earbuds, I personally wouldnt bother with a sub. Some people love them.
 
Are HS5's okay without additional sub woofers - if anyone is using those. Just seen a review which said you're better off getting a pair of sub's to go with those whereas the HS7 is a bit bigger and has better bass so you don't need the sub. My guitar room is fairly small, probably about 4m x 3m

I have a pair of HS5s, as well as HS8s. I have run straight into the HS5s in my living room without a sub (with them about ten feet away from me), and they handle the low end just fine for guitar playing. I rarely use them at higher volume levels, though, because that's where you really start to hear the bottom drop out, but for reasonable volume levels they do fine.
 
After giving Helix native every chance, I sometimes wonder how others could possibly be describing the same product. I revisited the software three times with the "It's not you, it's me" approach. Helix, it's most definitely you.
 
I have a pair of HS5s, as well as HS8s. I have run straight into the HS5s in my living room without a sub (with them about ten feet away from me), and they handle the low end just fine for guitar playing. I rarely use them at higher volume levels, though, because that's where you really start to hear the bottom drop out, but for reasonable volume levels they do fine.

HS5 it is then.. let's see if that's the missing link in the Helix. Worth doing just to compare, at least I will know for when I get my fractal.. whoops did I just say that? 😬
 
Long thread, but my two cents.

First off, I'm not dogmatic about any device, so that may not make me popular in some circles. I've bought and sold everything with my own money and really only speak from experience.

I like Helix quite a bit for a number of reasons and I've used it off and on for many years. It really needs aftermarket impulses to sound its best because IMO the stock cabs are terrible especially for higher gain/heavier music. I don't get up into the djent levels of modern gain but I use a heavy rock tone (think a Friedman BE) 90% of the time. If I have an issue with the Helix heavy tones, it's the lack of a musical low end thump/presence. Everything sounds like it's high passed a bit. Again, impulses help quite a bit here to scoop the mids and boost the lows a bit, but it's still a bit flat feeling.

That's where I like the Fractal better, although to be honest especially with Cygnus it's gone the other way. A lot of times there's so much low end I'm using low cuts in the cab, turning down the depth, using the low cut control in the amp, etc. But generally when you dial that down it's a little more satisfying to play. I will also say it may take me longer to dial in a tone on the Fractal but generally I will like that tone a little better than Helix. I also find that, in general, the Fractal effects (outside of drive pedals which I rarely use) sound better and richer to me than Helix.

Now, all that said, there's the very real possibility that your issue with the Helix sound isn't completely due to the Helix but due to the monitoring setup. Which means you could spend $1200 or whatever the cost is for a Fractal FM3 and still not be happy with the sound. I'm not discouraging you from getting the Fractal (because it's awesome), but I will say you may need to spend some time and money on getting the sounds out of the modeler. And I would do that before spending a lot of money on presets and impulses and what not.

EDIT: I see you are looking at the Yamaha HS5. I haven't personally owned them but I've tested those against others, and you'll definitely need some more low end with those monitors as they are skewed towards being brighter. Now I actually think that's a good thing, because most of the cheaper monitors I've heard were too hi-fi sounding and having purchased a few of them, they sounded like crap playing guitar through them. There's not enough midrange and detail. I really like the Yamaha HS7 which, if I had enough space to run full size monitors, I'd probably get those. They seemed to have adequate low end but they are really big for a regular desk. I've given up on studio monitors on my desk though and would likely either run a regular guitar cab or get some floor monitors (which I liked playing through a lot more in the past).

One other thing you'll want to know coming from the Helix, there's no way to run either dual amps or gapless amp switching within a preset. You can set up four different amp channels within a preset and switch between them, but there will be a very slight audio gap when switching. This is significantly better than it used to be on older devices and it's not that much longer than switching channels on some tube amps, but it's a thing you want to be aware of. That's one of the benefits of the new FM9 I believe (or the Axe 3). Otherwise I find there's plenty of power for an amp, cab, reverb, delay, and a few other effects.
 
Last edited:
Long thread, but my two cents.

First off, I'm not dogmatic about any device, so that may not make me popular in some circles. I've bought and sold everything with my own money and really only speak from experience.

I like Helix quite a bit for a number of reasons and I've used it off and on for many years. It really needs aftermarket impulses to sound its best because IMO the stock cabs are terrible especially for higher gain/heavier music. I don't get up into the djent levels of modern gain but I use a heavy rock tone (think a Friedman BE) 90% of the time. If I have an issue with the Helix heavy tones, it's the lack of a musical low end thump/presence. Everything sounds like it's high passed a bit. Again, impulses help quite a bit here to scoop the mids and boost the lows a bit, but it's still a bit flat feeling.

That's where I like the Fractal better, although to be honest especially with Cygnus it's gone the other way. A lot of times there's so much low end I'm using low cuts in the cab, turning down the depth, using the low cut control in the amp, etc. But generally when you dial that down it's a little more satisfying to play. I will also say it may take me longer to dial in a tone on the Fractal but generally I will like that tone a little better than Helix. I also find that, in general, the Fractal effects (outside of drive pedals which I rarely use) sound better and richer to me than Helix.

Now, all that said, there's the very real possibility that your issue with the Helix sound isn't completely due to the Helix but due to the monitoring setup. Which means you could spend $1200 or whatever the cost is for a Fractal FM3 and still not be happy with the sound. I'm not discouraging you from getting the Fractal (because it's awesome), but I will say you may need to spend some time and money on getting the sounds out of the modeler. And I would do that before spending a lot of money on presets and impulses and what not.

EDIT: I see you are looking at the Yamaha HS5. I haven't personally owned them but I've tested those against others, and you'll definitely need some more low end with those monitors as they are skewed towards being brighter. Now I actually think that's a good thing, because most of the cheaper monitors I've heard were too hi-fi sounding and having purchased a few of them, they sounded like crap playing guitar through them. There's not enough midrange and detail. I really like the Yamaha HS7 which, if I had enough space to run full size monitors, I'd probably get those. They seemed to have adequate low end but they are really big for a regular desk. I've given up on studio monitors on my desk though and would likely either run a regular guitar cab or get some floor monitors (which I liked playing through a lot more in the past).

One other thing you'll want to know coming from the Helix, there's no way to run either dual amps or gapless amp switching within a preset. You can set up four different amp channels within a preset and switch between them, but there will be a very slight audio gap when switching. This is significantly better than it used to be on older devices and it's not that much longer than switching channels on some tube amps, but it's a thing you want to be aware of. That's one of the draws of the new FM9 I believe (or the Axe 3). Otherwise I find there's plenty of power for an amp, cab, reverb, delay, and a few other effects.

Thanks for your input. I've decided to try some new Yamaha HS5's, plenty of guitarists recommend them and it is quite a small room that I use. Like you've suggested, I want to eliminate the possibility that it's affecting things. The alto 210s are nice for playing music through to be fair but I think they contribute to boomy bottom end for guitars.

I don't expect that to solve my top end fizzy high gain problem though. I just don't like the way the high gain sounds in the Helix and so far, no one has been able to solve that for me. I don't think different speakers will change that, I'm willing to be surprised though.

The plan now is to try the yamaha's, decide which to keep. If I still find the Helix lacking, an fm3 will be the next purchase.
 
Thanks for your input. I've decided to try some new Yamaha HS5's, plenty of guitarists recommend them and it is quite a small room that I use. Like you've suggested, I want to eliminate the possibility that it's affecting things. The alto 210s are nice for playing music through to be fair but I think they contribute to boomy bottom end for guitars.

I don't expect that to solve my top end fizzy high gain problem though. I just don't like the way the high gain sounds in the Helix and so far, no one has been able to solve that for me. I don't think different speakers will change that, I'm willing to be surprised though.

The plan now is to try the yamaha's, decide which to keep. If I still find the Helix lacking, an fm3 will be the next purchase.
Do you get those Altos off the floor?
 
Well then, it stands to reason that you have done everything you can.
I think so. I'll see if the HS5's save the Helix but I'm not hopeful. I'm quite fussy when it comes to my distortion tones and it's no coincidence there are a lot of people who have moved from Helix to fractal and commented how much better it is. You don't really see people moving from Fractal to Helix do you, so despite Helix being arguably the best value for money processor, i do think it falls a bit short with high gain tones, just the way it sounds etc, so I think an fm3 will be incoming some point soon.

There seem to be quite a few presets already made by people for Def Leppard and classic 80s rock so that's encouraging.
 
One other thing you'll want to know coming from the Helix, there's no way to run either dual amps or gapless amp switching within a preset. You can set up four different amp channels within a preset and switch between them, but there will be a very slight audio gap when switching. This is significantly better than it used to be on older devices and it's not that much longer than switching channels on some tube amps, but it's a thing you want to be aware of. That's one of the draws of the new FM9 I believe (or the Axe 3). Otherwise I find there's plenty of power for an amp, cab, reverb, delay, and a few other effects.

not true, FM9 has 2 amp blocks (same as AXE 3) , totally gapless switching.
 
not true, FM9 has 2 amp blocks (same as AXE 3) , totally gapless switching.

It took me several times reading, but I think what I meant to say was, the FM3 does not have dual amps so cannot have gapless switching, and one of the benefits of the FM9 and Axe 3 is that feature. I'll edit my post to clarify.
 
It took me several times reading, but I think what I meant to say was, the FM3 does not have dual amps so cannot have gapless switching, and one of the benefits of the FM9 and Axe 3 is that feature. I'll edit my post to clarify.
Yep I knew that anyway, would love an fm9 but will settle for an fm3 anyway just because I believe the sound will be better than my helix
 
I think so. I'll see if the HS5's save the Helix but I'm not hopeful. I'm quite fussy when it comes to my distortion tones and it's no coincidence there are a lot of people who have moved from Helix to fractal and commented how much better it is. You don't really see people moving from Fractal to Helix do you, so despite Helix being arguably the best value for money processor, i do think it falls a bit short with high gain tones, just the way it sounds etc, so I think an fm3 will be incoming some point soon.

There seem to be quite a few presets already made by people for Def Leppard and classic 80s rock so that's encouraging.

My 5 years an on Helix buddy I have mentioned before in various threads totally confessed last
night that he is going Fractal. The last two weeks (and since the release of the FM9 which is
more suited to him with its form factor) he has basically confessed what he has felt all along
about the Helix. #youhearditherefirst :)
 
I think so. I'll see if the HS5's save the Helix but I'm not hopeful. I'm quite fussy when it comes to my distortion tones and it's no coincidence there are a lot of people who have moved from Helix to fractal and commented how much better it is. You don't really see people moving from Fractal to Helix do you, so despite Helix being arguably the best value for money processor, i do think it falls a bit short with high gain tones, just the way it sounds etc, so I think an fm3 will be incoming some point soon.

There seem to be quite a few presets already made by people for Def Leppard and classic 80s rock so that's encouraging.
I think that might be a bit of confirmation bias there. The folks who are happy with their Helix are not going to be posting much compared to those who are having problems or moving to another product. I sort of actually went from Axe-Fx 2 to Helix, though there was a bit of other gear in between.

I no longer believe anyone who says how much better some other piece of gear is. People kept saying that about Axe-Fx 2 vs Axe-Fx 3 and before Cygnus to me it sounded the same as I remember Axe-Fx 2 sounding. So I finally caved and got a used FM3 and what do you know, sounded exactly like I remembered rather than some new stratosphere of tone. And that's not a dig at Fractal at all because to me the Axe-Fx 2 already sounded great! But there is definitely a lot of hyperbole out there about how "X blows Y away".

Sounds like you are going to give Fractal a try no matter what and as long as your output system is good, I think you will be very happy with the tones you will be getting.
 
I think that might be a bit of confirmation bias there.

Or, he has used it for years (like he has mentioned multiple times), and tried to get the tones he wants,
and is finally on the precipice of giving up and moving on to greener high-gain pastures. :)
 
Back
Top Bottom