Spaces make all the difference?#don'ttrustyourownearsexperience
Spaces make all the difference?
Tonewoods DO matter. But so do the metal parts, electronics and the rest of the construction.Tonewoods don't matter. I can make all modelers essentially sound the same. Power tubes make no difference.
Common theme?
Kind of makes you wonder why any of the designers of products ever made any of the choices they did if it
all essentially "doesn't matter."
It's hard to admit to yourself that a piece of gear is really bad-sounding. I've had 2 that frustrated me to no end, but was still convinced for a long time that if I just dialed it in right......he has basically confessed what he has felt all along about the Helix.
It's hard to admit to yourself that a piece of gear is really bad-sounding. I've had 2 that frustrated me to no end, but was still convinced for a long time that if I just dialed it in right...
My 2nd amp was SS, coming from a Peavey Classic 50 watt combo. I got "sold." "It's got a parametric EQ that'll give you any sound you want, plus Geddy Lee uses it." (Yeah, he used a Yamaha G100II12-2 on just the part in Xanadu in which he played guitar.) The tone sucked!
Then, I got talked into buying my 1st multi-effects unit, and ART SGE, which also sucked. "I've never heard of ART." "Oh yeah. It's the guys who make MXR pedals. You've heard of them, right? They make great gear!"
And that's actually what kept me away from multi-effects for so long. And remembering what the Line 6 Spider sounded like, was what kept me from even considering buying anything from them. I wasn't about to ignore my gut ever again.
It's hard to admit to yourself that a piece of gear is really bad-sounding. I've had 2 that frustrated me to no end, but was still convinced for a long time that if I just dialed it in right...
My 2nd amp was SS, coming from a Peavey Classic 50 watt combo. I got "sold." "It's got a parametric EQ that'll give you any sound you want, plus Geddy Lee uses it." (Yeah, he used a Yamaha G100II12-2 on just the part in Xanadu in which he played guitar.) The tone sucked!
Then, I got talked into buying my 1st multi-effects unit, and ART SGE, which also sucked. "I've never heard of ART." "Oh yeah. It's the guys who make MXR pedals. You've heard of them, right? They make great gear!"
And that's actually what kept me away from multi-effects for so long. And remembering what the Line 6 Spider sounded like, was what kept me from even considering buying anything from them. I wasn't about to ignore my gut ever again.
I LOVE how you just turn it on, and don't have to "...get it out..." (and of course, that you can.)if we can't get it out of a piece of kit then it ain't happening.
I've read about a lot of people who have abandoned some piece of gear because they couldn't figure out how to work it to their liking, whether it was a Mesa amp, pedal or a digital modeler. I have probably sold some amps prematurely because I had not figured out how important the cab was for their sound. Even if you've been playing a long time does not mean you are good at using your gear. I think most people find something that works for them and stick with that until someone shows them "hey, you can also do things like this". I have learned some tips and tricks from say Leon Todd's videos that I didn't know about despite using an Axe-Fx 2 for years."You just didn't know how to dial it in."
That may apply to someone just learning gear and how to play. But for many of us that have
decades under our belts I feel like the assumption (and benefit of the doubt) should be that
we know what we are doing, and if we can't get it out of a piece of kit then it ain't happening.
Interesting!My 5 years an on Helix buddy I have mentioned before in various threads totally confessed last
night that he is going Fractal. The last two weeks (and since the release of the FM9 which is
more suited to him with its form factor) he has basically confessed what he has felt all along
about the Helix. #youhearditherefirst
The only thing I would say about that is that you really never see fractal users giving up and going over to Helix, it only seems to happen the other way around. I know there are some like yourself who have both, but would if you had to lose one, which would it be?I think that might be a bit of confirmation bias there. The folks who are happy with their Helix are not going to be posting much compared to those who are having problems or moving to another product. I sort of actually went from Axe-Fx 2 to Helix, though there was a bit of other gear in between.
I no longer believe anyone who says how much better some other piece of gear is. People kept saying that about Axe-Fx 2 vs Axe-Fx 3 and before Cygnus to me it sounded the same as I remember Axe-Fx 2 sounding. So I finally caved and got a used FM3 and what do you know, sounded exactly like I remembered rather than some new stratosphere of tone. And that's not a dig at Fractal at all because to me the Axe-Fx 2 already sounded great! But there is definitely a lot of hyperbole out there about how "X blows Y away".
Sounds like you are going to give Fractal a try no matter what and as long as your output system is good, I think you will be very happy with the tones you will be getting.
That is my perception of the fractal, as a Helix owner. It seems to be backed up by guys who have sold their helixes and gone fractal. Like I said, I don't see anyone going the other way so there must be a noticeable differenceWe both just kind of agree that the amp models (especially the higher gain stuff we use 75% of the time)
sounds better coming from the Fractal than the Helix.
What Pete says here is the key for me, default settings are good. That is such a different experience and would be so refreshing to just start playing a factory preset and enjoy rather than gaving to pull it apart and re build it to try and sound goodThat for me is why I like Fractal - default settings sounds great, I want to play in my limited time and tweak for fun not because I have to.
The only thing I would say about that is that you really never see fractal users giving up and going over to Helix, it only seems to happen the other way around. I know there are some like yourself who have both, but would if you had to lose one, which would it be?
I haven't been on this forum long enough to know, but do you frequently see threads here where people complain their fractal doesn't sound very good because it's quite a regular thread on the Helix forum and even if that is mostly down to it being really difficult to dial in, that is still a fail in my book.
Don't get me wrong, I want to love my helix, I would love it if there was a magic button to suddenly make all the tones sound great, because it would be far easier to keep it but the trouble is quite simply, any time you want to make a new tone, it's not instantly likeable, you have to chip away at it until you get something you can at least like if not love.
When I get my hands on an fm3, I'll be able to make a direct comparison, I'll keep my helix for a while just to be sure. If there are no hard rock tones that make me happy out of that fm3, I'll be the first to say it here, I would be shocked if it was the case though
I think you should have kept the QC. As important as the on device experience is for you. Helix would have "filled in the gaps" for the time being.Over the years I have seen quite a bit of people even on this forum having issues with the Axe-Fx. In most cases it has been user error or a shitty output system or playing it at way too low volume for anything to sound good.
Fractal just puts controls at halfway on the amp block so that's as basic as it gets as a startup point and then you have to deliberately pick IRs rather than get them already paired like the Line6 Amp+Cab block does. Line6 sets a predefined sound for each block. That might be something that throws people off if it doesn't work with your guitars or output system. I often don't agree with their choices there but you can overwrite the defaults if you want. The stock cabs are probably the single biggest reason people struggle with the Helix. They are nowhere near as easy as Fractal's cab block that provides a big library of high quality IRs to choose from.
Fractal also has better stock presets so that can help people get started. I think these can be important factors for preferring a device. I have built my own presets for so long that I haven't even gone through the FM3 factory presets so for me it does not matter.
At one point I had the FM3, Quad Cortex and Helix Floor at the same time so I have mulled over the question. To me their amp modeling was not a big enough differentiator alone and it came to other factors. I really wanted to replace both FM3 and Helix with the QC but its effects were just too half-baked even though I loved the UI, form factor and capture functionality. So instead the QC got sold, I kept the FM3 and Helix and used them for different purposes. Helix for fx/routing/switching on my real amps and cabs, FM3 on the desk for direct recording, low volume use with headphones and travel because it's easier to pack up. I don't have much interest in the FM9 because it's much larger.
The FM3 was really an impulse purchase. I bought it used just so I could try the QC, Helix and FM3 all together and pick what I liked best and compare them on all fronts from amp to cab modeling to effects and usability. For me the key things were something like this:
I think you need to follow your heart and pick what you believe will work best for you. If you have struggled with the Helix too much to enjoy using it, then get something else. I sold my Axe-Fx 2 despite using it for years because I loathed operating it from the front panel and at the time the only alternative was the Axe-Fx 3 which was a lot more expensive and felt like only a half-step better for using it. I was already happy with the Axe-Fx 2 sound and available DSP. There's not a goldilocks device that would satisfy me in every aspect so you pick the things that are important for you.
- Quad Cortex. Best UI, form factor and onboard control. Capture feature is excellent. Limited effects, no computer editor. Needs time to grow with software updates.
- FM3. Best software feature set, best modulation and reverb effects, best computer editor. Lacking footswitching and worst onboard UI.
- Helix Floor. Best I/O, best usability on the floor (screen visibility, footswitching), good UI. Best compromise, but physically large.
I did not want to wait to see if NeuralDSP is going to make good on their promises. Was better to sell it for what I paid for it and buy it again when it's at a point where it does the job for me. Could be a few years on the line and by that point who knows what the competition is offering.I think you should have kept the QC. As important as the on device experience is for you. Helix would have "filled in the gaps" for the time being.
That is my perception of the fractal, as a Helix owner. It seems to be backed up by guys who have sold their helixes and gone fractal. Like I said, I don't see anyone going the other way so there must be a noticeable differenceWe both just kind of agree that the amp models (especially the higher gain stuff we use 75% of the time)
sounds better coming from the Fractal than the Helix.