Moving to fractal from helix, need help!

[Paulzx]

Ask and you shall receive!

I used Helix Native instead of the Helix Floor but that's not going to change anything, I made sure to only run what the Helix Floor is capable of doing.

Signal chain is: Skervesen Shoggie 8 -> Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen -> Helix Native -> Sennheiser HD6XX headphones.

Preset is:

Hard Gate -> Archetype Lead (PRS Archon OD ch) -> Cali EQ (Mesa graphic EQ) -> 2x 1024 sample IR or 2x stock cab blocks in parallel -> A tiny bit of room reverb.

I cannot give you the IRs because they are commercial. You will have to buy ML Sound Labs MIKKO and the Classified and Essentials cab packs for that. I used a 4x12 Sound City cab with Fane speakers and that was used in parallel with an oversize 4x12 Mesa Rectifier cab with V30s.

But attached is a preset that uses the stock cabs (4x12 Sololead EM and 4x12 Cali) and I tried to dial it to something similar but it ended up being a bit different sound that I think works just fine. It's harder to dial out fizziness out of the Helix stock cabs which is why I recommend using 3rd party IRs instead, just too much work to get the stock cabs to play nice when you could simply load a different IR file that does it all for you. In any case, the preset is identical to the one with IRs except the stock cabs are used with their settings tailored to something I liked.

For those without a Helix, here's a sloppy clip. First with IRs and 2nd with stock cabs. YMMV depending on what you use to listen to the track and as always, louder sounds better! Listening to it at low volume it sounds actually a bit fizzy to my ears but gets better if you crank the volume.

Okay so I tried the preset, with your cabs and one of my IRs, not in parallel though.

First off let me say that it's a nice sounding tone, much better with the IR, and I like,e it, I'll tweak it a bit and use it I expect. I was surprised there was no distortion pedal!

Did it sound like,e your clip? Not exactly. I had to dial out a boomy bottom end, I notice you actually had 80khz boosted. The main difference though is on your clip, the distortion sounds really aggressive, mine wasn't really matching that.

So either my guitars are all anaemic, your IRs are doing that, or there's some voodoo going on during the recording. I like the distortion in the patch, its just not as good as yours was.

 

[Paulzx]

Thanks for posting this audio clip. I read your earlier comment and it did raise an eyebrow somewhat when you said that Fractal and Helix were on a par so I'm pleased to hear what you're on about when referencing Helix tones you like

Line6 works for plenty of folk, and I have heard some fine tones from them. It's just for me the two times I've had a Stomp - when they first came out and after I'd heard how 310 was a big upgrade - I've only ever been really disappointed in the sounds I've got from them. And I've given them a real good decent thorough go, decent IR's etc etc

It's all personal opinion at the end of the day, so I am genuinely not knocking you. If you think Helix is up there with Fractal then that's your view. If that clip you posted gives you the colleywobbles then great. That's your choice and if the Helix works for you as much as Fractal then great
Music is all about personal opinion.

However, having just sold my second HX Stomp I personally find them to be some distance from Fractal, in another tier in fact, grainy and way more digital sounding

I find getting a tone I like in them is like cycling up hill. A struggle,

I personally just don't find them sounding anywhere near as natural or 'real' as Fractal, in fact I prefer Atomic's amp modelling over the Helix stuff.
I've spent ages getting a tone I'm halfway happy with only to fire up one of my Fractals and in seconds setup a preset that is so much easier to play through and more satisfying to my ears. and sounds so much better to me. Rather than a ballache

Again not a dig, just keen to hear what you thought was an awesome Helix tone.

Having compared them they're really not for me

Back on topic, I would actively encourage the OP to go down the Fractal route. If you're into Def Leppard you're literally using the same gear they do live - and having seen them every time they've played their hometown since 1992 the last tour had by far their best tones.
I've used my Fractals in classic rock, disco/funk/ top 40 band situations and the basic tones have been exceptional, often some of the best I've ever had, the effects fantastic and utter faultless reliability. Setup and break down in seconds and so much versatility and variety if you want to go exploring some of the lesser known amps and other options inside these units

It's encouraging to hear you say this because we're on the same page, you know what I'm shooting for!

 

[laxu]

Thanks for posting this audio clip. I read your earlier comment and it did raise an eyebrow somewhat when you said that Fractal and Helix were on a par so I'm pleased to hear what you're on about when referencing Helix tones you like

Line6 works for plenty of folk, and I have heard some fine tones from them. It's just for me the two times I've had a Stomp - when they first came out and after I'd heard how 310 was a big upgrade - I've only ever been really disappointed in the sounds I've got from them. And I've given them a real good decent thorough go, decent IR's etc etc

It's all personal opinion at the end of the day, so I am genuinely not knocking you. If you think Helix is up there with Fractal then that's your view. If that clip you posted gives you the colleywobbles then great. That's your choice and if the Helix works for you as much as Fractal then great
Music is all about personal opinion.

However, having just sold my second HX Stomp I personally find them to be some distance from Fractal, in another tier in fact, grainy and way more digital sounding

I find getting a tone I like in them is like cycling up hill. A struggle,

I personally just don't find them sounding anywhere near as natural or 'real' as Fractal, in fact I prefer Atomic's amp modelling over the Helix stuff.
I've spent ages getting a tone I'm halfway happy with only to fire up one of my Fractals and in seconds setup a preset that is so much easier to play through and more satisfying to my ears. and sounds so much better to me. Rather than a ballache

Again not a dig, just keen to hear what you thought was an awesome Helix tone.

Having compared them they're really not for me

Back on topic, I would actively encourage the OP to go down the Fractal route. If you're into Def Leppard you're literally using the same gear they do live - and having seen them every time they've played their hometown since 1992 the last tour had by far their best tones.
I've used my Fractals in classic rock, disco/funk/ top 40 band situations and the basic tones have been exceptional, often some of the best I've ever had, the effects fantastic and utter faultless reliability. Setup and break down in seconds and so much versatility and variety if you want to go exploring some of the lesser known amps and other options inside these units

Lots of subjective preference over here of course. If you find that Fractal delivers the tones you like easier then that's the right tool. I mostly get frustrated whenever I am not using FM3-Edit to program my FM3. Not because I can't get a good tone out of it but because the everyday usability is still a bit of a chore to me, though much less than it was for the Axe-Fx 2 which I used for years because it was the best thing on the market.

The clip I did isn't really even what I typically play as I'm more in the hard rock type tone camp, still higher gain but think more in the Gary Moore vein. I do dabble in metal and feel I have been able to get the Helix to deliver tones that I like for that style, with my guitars, for my output devices, at the volumes I use. I'm not trying to claim any tone or metal guru titles here.

I remember when I had the Axe-Fx 2 I downloaded Mark Day's presets because he had a great tone. What I found out was that the way he sets up his sound does not work for me at all. So what works for me and what works for someone else are not necessarily the same things.

 

[laxu]

Okay so I tried the preset, with your cabs and one of my IRs, not in parallel though.

First off let me say that it's a nice sounding tone, much better with the IR, and I like,e it, I'll tweak it a bit and use it I expect. I was surprised there was no distortion pedal!

Did it sound like,e your clip? Not exactly. I had to dial out a boomy bottom end, I notice you actually had 80khz boosted. The main difference though is on your clip, the distortion sounds really aggressive, mine wasn't really matching that.

So either my guitars are all anaemic, your IRs are doing that, or there's some voodoo going on during the recording. I like the distortion in the patch, its just not as good as yours was.

I am actually using a setup that is similar to how the Mesa Mark series works: You cut the low end more at the front end of the amp and then bring it back with the graphic EQ. This allows you to get cleaner, tighter distortion going and you bring back the low end later. So it's not really boosted lows.

I've never been a huge fan of the "overdrive in front of a high gain amp as boost/EQ" setup. I did have a low shelf block in front of the amp block to see if that would deliver something I liked but I decided not to use it after all. In any case using an overdrive to boost mids and cut lows is a staple trick for metal tones.

I can guarantee that there's no voodoo going on. I used the BKP Juggernaut in the bridge of my Skervesen, tuned 1/2 step down. No post EQ, all sound shaping is only inside Helix Native here and I feel the Focusrite instrument input isn't even as good as the Helix plus there's a bit more latency with plugins. The reverb is there mainly to add a bit of fullness and space with headphones and with the Altos you might turn it off or adjust the mix.

To me the most important parts are the graphic EQ settings and whatever is setup for cab sims. Different IRs can make a big difference. But if you are already using something like OwnHammer, York Audio or other good vendors then that shouldn't be a real problem as many make good IRs. My go-to mic setup when blending two IRs together is a Shure SM57 and Beyerdynamic M160 mics you find in pretty much every IR pack. The 57 brings the bite and the M160 brings the beef. Works great with any cabs in the Fractal IR library as well.

I find that running two cab or IR blocks in parallel is the way to go on Helix. The other alternative is to use a pre-mixed multi-mic IR that does it for you. Fractal offers a similar setup in a single cab block which makes it a bit easier to work with because you have all the settings on one screen and don't need to jump between blocks.

From what I remember a common complaint about the Altos is excess low end so if they have any kind of low end shaping tools of their own, it might be a good idea to try if those can solve the problem. I find that my Genelec studio monitors can also be a bit boomy if room correction is not applied or if I don't use the switches the monitors offer for tailoring them to their positioning.

What you should be looking for here is clarity in the low end rather than having a lot of low end. I usually figure this out by playing the lowest string and then adjusting amp bass, cab low cuts etc until it gets too thin, then turn it up just a bit to make it full but not loose or boomy. I find this works with pretty much anything from pedals to modelers to real amps, regardless of music genre.

Another thing you could try is feeding higher level signal into the Altos. I have heard some others mention this with some FRFR systems where feeding a hotter signal from the modeler helped the output system perform better. So turn up the Helix and combat the extra volume from the Altos instead.

I dialed the tones with my headphones pretty loud. You can try how the sound changes if you play the clip above at low volume and then gradually turn up the volume. On my setup the most noticeable difference is the midrange becoming much more prominent, probably Fletcher-Munson curve in effect.

If you still feel you are not getting anywhere, give Fractal a try and see if that works better for what you are looking for.

 

[Paulzx]

I am actually using a setup that is similar to how the Mesa Mark series works: You cut the low end more at the front end of the amp and then bring it back with the graphic EQ. This allows you to get cleaner, tighter distortion going and you bring back the low end later. So it's not really boosted lows.

I've never been a huge fan of the "overdrive in front of a high gain amp as boost/EQ" setup. I did have a low shelf block in front of the amp block to see if that would deliver something I liked but I decided not to use it after all. In any case using an overdrive to boost mids and cut lows is a staple trick for metal tones.

I can guarantee that there's no voodoo going on. I used the BKP Juggernaut in the bridge of my Skervesen, tuned 1/2 step down. No post EQ, all sound shaping is only inside Helix Native here and I feel the Focusrite instrument input isn't even as good as the Helix plus there's a bit more latency with plugins. The reverb is there mainly to add a bit of fullness and space with headphones and with the Altos you might turn it off or adjust the mix.

To me the most important parts are the graphic EQ settings and whatever is setup for cab sims. Different IRs can make a big difference. But if you are already using something like OwnHammer, York Audio or other good vendors then that shouldn't be a real problem as many make good IRs. My go-to mic setup when blending two IRs together is a Shure SM57 and Beyerdynamic M160 mics you find in pretty much every IR pack. The 57 brings the bite and the M160 brings the beef. Works great with any cabs in the Fractal IR library as well.

I find that running two cab or IR blocks in parallel is the way to go on Helix. The other alternative is to use a pre-mixed multi-mic IR that does it for you. Fractal offers a similar setup in a single cab block which makes it a bit easier to work with because you have all the settings on one screen and don't need to jump between blocks.

From what I remember a common complaint about the Altos is excess low end so if they have any kind of low end shaping tools of their own, it might be a good idea to try if those can solve the problem. I find that my Genelec studio monitors can also be a bit boomy if room correction is not applied or if I don't use the switches the monitors offer for tailoring them to their positioning.

What you should be looking for here is clarity in the low end rather than having a lot of low end. I usually figure this out by playing the lowest string and then adjusting amp bass, cab low cuts etc until it gets too thin, then turn it up just a bit to make it full but not loose or boomy. I find this works with pretty much anything from pedals to modelers to real amps, regardless of music genre.

Another thing you could try is feeding higher level signal into the Altos. I have heard some others mention this with some FRFR systems where feeding a hotter signal from the modeler helped the output system perform better. So turn up the Helix and combat the extra volume from the Altos instead.

I dialed the tones with my headphones pretty loud. You can try how the sound changes if you play the clip above at low volume and then gradually turn up the volume. On my setup the most noticeable difference is the midrange becoming much more prominent, probably Fletcher-Munson curve in effect.

If you still feel you are not getting anywhere, give Fractal a try and see if that works better for what you are looking for.

I think it's inevitable I will try an fm3, there are none on ebay used so I'll try a new one on a return policy, just so I can send it back if needed. It will be an interesting comparison for me.

I'm intrigued with your high gain preset though because had I ever managed to get a similar aggressive distortion, that would have solved a lot of my issues, but I never have. My Helix already runs volume high, Altos are turned down. The difference can only be in the IRs or the actual speakers? I can't really work out where it's lacking this end

 

[ben ifin]

My experience of Helix gain tones (again after listening to them at least once a week
for 5 years, and having owned one briefly;y myself) is that they are grainy. There is a
certain granular quality to the Helix that I could never get rid of. Fractal (and even Kemper)
have a much smoother and more natural (less artificial) nature to the clipping and breakup
you get with gained up tones.

Exactly, the sound of the break up is a characteristic I've never really liked on the Helix. I'm going to try the Archetype patch that laxu posted, to see if it's really much different from my own presets

^^^ This is really interesting and where I think the Helix and FM3 differ.

The following is based on solely my personal experience - so here goes.

Prior to going digital I ran a Mesa Boogie MK3 Purple Strip then a Vox AC30 then a HW Vox AC30 then a [Ceriatone Clone of a ] Matchless DC 30 - these were all run through my real 2 x 12 Celestion closed Back Cab

In all these I would run the Master fairly open and the whole amp quite loud.

Without fail or exception, they all exhibited a very grainy / granular driven sound - which was awesome as (1) that's what Master Volume Driven Tube Amps do and sound like and (2) they cut though the live sounds beautifully.

I think Line 6 gets this "grainy'ness" down pat ...... Cygnus has more of it but not like the L6 ... but certainly more than Ares ever did <= and I for one am really glad they are "ugly'ing up" there tones / modelling

In my years of playing / experience and to my ears .... there is nothing smooth / natural / non-artificial about the tone and sound of the clipping and breakup of a gained up Tube amp.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "grainy'ness" is "accurate" .... and if you want you can dial it out by dropping the MV and hitting the front end with a bosst / drive pedal to "smooth out" / "saturate-away" this grainy'ness.

2 x Serious but well intentioned questions

=> have you ever stood in front of a real Marshall 4 x 12 that's cranked up and with your ears in line with the Cab ? What you hear is anything but smoothness - its so gritty and grainy you could "grate cheese with it"

=> have you ever used any real Tube amp that's cranked and angled the speaker cab so it hits you in the ears and not the back of your knee's ? - again what you hear is anything but smoothness.

Great cranked Tube amps - regardless of brand have a healthy degree of "ugly" in their sound on their absolute unprocessed own - this is what makes them so awesome for live / recording.

A smooth / non-grainy cranked Tube tone is simply not going to cut through either a live or recorded mix.

Please listen to any stems of EVH or ACDC etc.... and their raw/pure amp tones are as grainy and ugly as f$$k .... but man do they sound awesome when in the live/studio band mix

This is where L6 is at and where I think Cygnus is heading more and more.

Regardless of the above - and no criticism intended - , I sense you have already "decided" / "talked yourself" into wanting or believing that the Fractal will give you what you "want to hear" so I say go for it and try it out

My only caveat is don't sell your Helix until you have properly A/B tested them with the same IR's etc.... at loud / live volumes and then make your decision.

All the best,
Ben

PS: BTW .... I dont think the Alto TS10 is doing you any favors and my prediction is that Helix or FM3 are both going to sound pretty ordinary through it

 

[la szum]

^^^ This is really interesting and where I think the Helix and FM3 differ.

The following is based on solely my personal experience - so here goes.

Prior to going digital I ran a Mesa Boogie MK3 Purple Strip then a Vox AC30 then a HW Vox AC30 then a [Ceriatone Clone of a ] Matchless DC 30 - these were all run through my real 2 x 12 Celestion closed Back Cab

In all these I would run the Master fairly open and the whole amp quite loud.

Without fail or exception, they all exhibited a very grainy / granular driven sound - which was awesome as (1) that's what Master Volume Driven Tube Amps do and sound like and (2) they cut though the live sounds beautifully.

I think Line 6 gets this "grainy'ness" down pat ...... Cygnus has more of it but not like the L6 ... but certainly more than Ares ever did.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that the "grainy'ness" is "accurate" .... and if you want you can dial it out by dropping the MV and hitting the front end with a bosst / drive pedal to "smooth out" / "saturate-away" this grainy'ness.

2 x Serious but well intentioned questions

=> have you ever stood in front of a real Marshall 4 x 12 that's cranked up and with your ears in line with the Cab ? What you hear is anything but smoothness - its so gritty and grainy you could "grate cheese with it"

=> have you ever used any real Tube amp that's cranked and angled the speaker cab so it hits you in the ears and not the back of your knee's ? - again what you hear is anything but smoothness.

Great cranked Tube amps - regardless of brand have a healthy degree of "ugly" in their sound on their absolute unprocessed own - this is what makes them so awesome for live / recording.

A smooth / non-grainy cranked Tube tone is simply not going to cut through either a live or recorded mix.

Listen to any stems of EVH or ACDC etc.... and their raw/pure amp tones are as grainy and ugly as f$$k .... but man do they sound awesome when in the live/studio band mix

This is where L6 is at and where I think Cygnus is heading more and more.

Regardless of the above, I sense you have already "decided" / "talked yourself" into wanting or believing that the Fractal will give you what you "want to hear" so I say go for it and try it out

My only caveat is don't sell your Helix until you have properly A/B tested them with the same IR's etc.... at loud / live volumes and then make your decision.

All the best,
Ben

PS: BTW .... I dont think the Alto TS10 is doing you any favors and my prediction is that Helix or FM3 are both going to sound pretty ordinary through it

That's a lot to try and digest.

 

[ben ifin]

That's a lot to try and digest.

Yeah ... sorry for the long post - its a bad habit

All the best,
Ben

 

[FractalAudio]

Personally I find the distortion in the Helix unnaturally grainy and scratchy and strangely disembodied from the notes. I do not agree that real amps sound like that.

 

[rsvette12]

Sorry but the Fractal AXE III blows away the Helix - I had one adios - the difference is incredible and made me a ton better guitar player

 

[la szum]

Yeah ... sorry for the long post - its a bad habit

All the best,
Ben

Thanks for taking the time.

It's late on Sunday and I am whooped. I didn't mean to come across as short or dismissive.

I stand by my perceptions/experiences about all of this, and I know you do, too. Thank goodness
for choices and options, eh?

 

[Budda]

Here's the archon lead and bright, factory preset in FW 16.05 with a PRS McCarty 594 (10-46, ultex jazz III because someone might care one day)

 

[ben ifin]

Personally I find the distortion in the Helix unnaturally grainy and scratchy and strangely disembodied from the notes. I do not agree that real amps sound like that.

%110 totally respect your opinion and views - I guess we just hear things differently

All the best,
Ben

Thanks for taking the time.

It's late on Sunday and I am whooped. I didn't mean to come across as short or dismissive.

I stand by my perceptions/experiences about all of this, and I know you do, too. Thank goodness
for choices and options, eh?

Not at all - all good

All the best,
Ben

 

[ak301]

Personally I find the distortion in the Helix unnaturally grainy and scratchy and strangely disembodied from the notes. I do not agree that real amps sound like that.

A guy posted a video comparing A Helix, QC, Fractal and a Kemper recently and as the gain went up what you describe became more and more apparent to me.

The Helix just didn't sound as good as its peers to me for these reasons

 

[Paulzx]

2 x Serious but well intentioned questions

=> have you ever stood in front of a real Marshall 4 x 12 that's cranked up and with your ears in line with the Cab ? What you hear is anything but smoothness - its so gritty and grainy you could "grate cheese with it"

=> have you ever used any real Tube amp that's cranked and angled the speaker cab so it hits you in the ears and not the back of your knee's ? - again what you hear is anything but smoothness.



All the best,
Ben

PS: BTW .... I dont think the Alto TS10 is doing you any favors and my prediction is that Helix or FM3 are both going to sound pretty ordinary through it

Hi Ben,

That's a fair point, I think it might just be the way some of us are explaining this stuff. Of course I love I love an ugly crackling Angus Young guitar as much as anyone else, along with the grainy-ness or whatever we want to call it.

My main point in the beginning though about being unhappy with the Helix distortion, wasn't regarding that, it was regarding the fact that it never sounded overdriven enough to me, when I dial up the gain or distortion pedal, sure it get's overdriven, but boomy and fizzy, I just can't get a high gain that I'm really happy with. My perception of the Fractal gear, is that I'm going to get something satisfying out of the box, whereas Helix, too much constant tweaking - which happens because fundamentally, you're not happy with the tone.

Yes I know I would have to tweak the Fractal to taste etc, but if you've got good tones to start out with, it's going to be so much easier.
I watched Leon Todd's video on just the preset high gain patches in the FM9 - blimey if my guitars sounded like that I would be happy lol,
but they don't really, I can't get the aggression from the Helix.

I really appreciate all the opinions here, it has opened my eyes to a few things. I still think Fractal inevitably is the way to go, my favourite bands seem to have gone that way - guys who have guitar tones I would love to get close to. I have also realised that some guys on here seem to have had better results out of the Helix than I have, but I can't replicate those either so who knows!

I am concerned about my Alto speakers no as per Ben's comment above, it may be time to change those, I'm not really expecting a night and day difference though just from that

 

[Budda]

You can hear the difference between IR's in laxu's clip, I'd expect at least some degree of change between monitors as well.

 

[Paulzx]

You can hear the difference between IR's in laxu's clip, I'd expect at least some degree of change between monitors as well.

yeah but even with my own IR's it still wasn't as aggressive as the distortion he was getting. This is exactly what I mean, I can cycle through all of my marshall/mesa type IR's and it will sound okay, but not as aggressive as his, my Helix sound is lacking a bit in that regard.

 

[Paulzx]

Ask and you shall receive!

I used Helix Native instead of the Helix Floor but that's not going to change anything, I made sure to only run what the Helix Floor is capable of doing.

Signal chain is: Skervesen Shoggie 8 -> Focusrite Scarlett 6i6 2nd gen -> Helix Native -> Sennheiser HD6XX headphones.

Preset is:

Hard Gate -> Archetype Lead (PRS Archon OD ch) -> Cali EQ (Mesa graphic EQ) -> 2x 1024 sample IR or 2x stock cab blocks in parallel -> A tiny bit of room reverb.

I cannot give you the IRs because they are commercial. You will have to buy ML Sound Labs MIKKO and the Classified and Essentials cab packs for that. I used a 4x12 Sound City cab with Fane speakers and that was used in parallel with an oversize 4x12 Mesa Rectifier cab with V30s.

But attached is a preset that uses the stock cabs (4x12 Sololead EM and 4x12 Cali) and I tried to dial it to something similar but it ended up being a bit different sound that I think works just fine. It's harder to dial out fizziness out of the Helix stock cabs which is why I recommend using 3rd party IRs instead, just too much work to get the stock cabs to play nice when you could simply load a different IR file that does it all for you. In any case, the preset is identical to the one with IRs except the stock cabs are used with their settings tailored to something I liked.

For those without a Helix, here's a sloppy clip. First with IRs and 2nd with stock cabs. YMMV depending on what you use to listen to the track and as always, louder sounds better! Listening to it at low volume it sounds actually a bit fizzy to my ears but gets better if you crank the volume.

can you do me a favour and re-post both clips but recorded as it sounds coming out of your speakers rather than captured through the PC? I know it will be rough but I want to see if you're still getting that really aggressive distortion from the speakers themselves via the Helix.

If it is, then I seriously need to change my speakers and get those same IR's because I've never had anything as good as those clips - as I said, your preset is good when I use it, just not as good as your recorded version, and I want to get to the bottom of this.

Even if I do get an FM3, I don't want to be hamstrung with this same issue from the get go.

 

[Budda]

yeah but even with my own IR's it still wasn't as aggressive as the distortion he was getting. This is exactly what I mean, I can cycle through all of my marshall/mesa type IR's and it will sound okay, but not as aggressive as his, my Helix sound is lacking a bit in that regard.

Hit your local store this week and buy some yamaha HS5's or equivalent (known decent setup). See what that changes. Return them if the difference is negligible/funds need it. Better still, rent if you're able.

 

[Paulzx]

Hit your local store this week and buy some yamaha HS5's or equivalent (known decent setup). See what that changes. Return them if the difference is negligible/funds need it. Better still, rent if you're able.

Good suggestion Budda, I'm going to look into this.