Matrix FRFR 1x12 Coaxial solution!

Jay Mitchell cannot disclose any information regarding the sourcing or manufacturing of his CLR.

Regarding quality of Chinese made stuff... yes they are shady, but I don't think very many people out there design better coaxial drivers than Frazier, and if someone did, it certainly would not be a commercially available off the shelf part. That's just how stuff works in industry. Quality is one thing, design is another thing. The CLRs are very well designed, and as long as specs are met, quality should not be an issue regardless of where it's made.
 
... Unless I am wrong, the USA has a Country Of Origin marking requirement?

Whatever, you might be right, maybe it doesn't matter wahts inside to you. To me it does.
 
Last edited:
CrazyTrainer said:
... Unless I am wrong, the USA has a Country Of Origin marking requirement?

Whatever, you might be right, maybe it doesn't matter wahts inside to you. To me it does.
Click to expand...

If the US has this requirement, why does Celestion sell Chinese speakers not marked as such? I could be wrong, but my understanding is that only the golds & blues are not Chinese.

Also, as someone who imports boatloads (literally) of Chinese goods for my company, I can say that, unless you have absolute control over your production facilities (rare unless you are Nike or Apple), anything goes over there! You can sign a contract with one factory and they will subcontract to another (who will then subcontract to a 3rd...). I've seen every kind of tweaked deal. Don't get me wrong. There is fabulous stuff coming out of China (anybody tried one of Suhr's Rasmus guitars?). But, even Suhr does final assembly/ setup/ Plek/QC in US. it is a minefield if you don't have feet on the ground over there 24/7. If you are buying Chinese product (or anything in Asia), you need to be certain that manufacturers have vetted their supply chains completely. I work with Nike, Disney... You should see what they have in place to assure quality.
 
krcassid said:
If the US has this requirement, why does Celestion sell Chinese speakers not marked as such? I could be wrong, but my understanding is that only the golds & blues are not Chinese.

Also, as someone who imports boatloads (literally) of Chinese goods for my company, I can say that, unless you have absolute control over your production facilities (rare unless you are Nike or Apple), anything goes over there! You can sign a contract with one factory and they will subcontract to another (who will then subcontract to a 3rd...). I've seen every kind of tweaked deal. Don't get me wrong. There is fabulous stuff coming out of China (anybody tried one of Suhr's Rasmus guitars?). But, even Suhr does final assembly/ setup/ Plek/QC in US. it is a minefield if you don't have feet on the ground over there 24/7. If you are buying Chinese product (or anything in Asia), you need to be certain that manufacturers have vetted their supply chains completely. I work with Nike, Disney... You should see what they have in place to assure quality.
Click to expand...


I don't know what kind of stuff you work with. In electronics we contract a specific manufacturer and the product stays with them. I visited the factory for one of my products and checked out their manufacturing facilities. The electronics is made and assembled right there, nothing tricky about it. They work with us to make sure they can do what we ask and so we understand what they're capable of. Even Apple makes their products in China.
 
qingcong said:
I don't know what kind of stuff you work with. In electronics we contract a specific manufacturer and the product stays with them. I visited the factory for one of my products and checked out their manufacturing facilities. The electronics is made and assembled right there, nothing tricky about it. They work with us to make sure they can do what we ask and so we understand what they're capable of. Even Apple makes their products in China.
Click to expand...

As stated. There is wonderful stuff made over there. I am not anti-China in any way. I import goods of many kinds from Asia monthly. But, it is all a question of relationships. If you have a great factory you can trust, you are golden. I work with Nike, Apple & Disney. They trust NOBODY and have people on the gound (or contract for same) 24/7 to make sure everthing is done to spec.

My comments were meant to say: if you have a manufacturer with good import experience and strong relationships in the country they are doing biz with, China is a fantastic resource. On the other hand, if somebody outsources production overseas without extremely tight controls, be careful. All of this is OT anyway. It does not appear that any of the products under discussion are (to our knowledge) slated for manufacture in Aisa. And, if they are, and are handled correctly, they can be well made.
 
krcassid said:
All of this is OT anyway. It does not appear that any of the products under discussion are (to our knowledge) slated for manufacture in Aisa. And, if they are, and are handled correctly, they can be well made.
Click to expand...


Yeah agreed. The country of manufacture for these products is unknown anyways and doesn't make a difference to the end user, as long as it works as it should.
 
I'm very interested in the Matrix offering because it will likely use a Class AB MOSFET power amp as opposed to a Class D power amp. I do not like the sound of Class D power amps.

If this thing works as well as the reports, it will be a killer product and an excellent match to the Axe-Fx.
 
qingcong said:
I don't know what kind of stuff you work with. In electronics we contract a specific manufacturer and the product stays with them. I visited the factory for one of my products and checked out their manufacturing facilities. The electronics is made and assembled right there, nothing tricky about it. They work with us to make sure they can do what we ask and so we understand what they're capable of. Even Apple makes their products in China.
Click to expand...

True, and they mark their products, as required by US law as made in China.
 
Last edited:
FractalAudio said:
I'm very interested in the Matrix offering because it will likely use a Class AB MOSFET power amp as opposed to a Class D power amp. I do not like the sound of Class D power amps.

If this thing works as well as the reports, it will be a killer product and an excellent match to the Axe-Fx.
Click to expand...


Passive CLR + Matrix GT or GM is also a possibility.
 
krcassid said:
... I could be wrong, but my understanding is that only the golds & blues are not Chinese....
Click to expand...

Not trying to beat a dead horse here, but just for the record, yes you're wrong. My brand new Mesa Recto 4x12 came with British made Vintage 30s. Made in Ipswitch, to be exact. :)
 
Ned Flanders said:
You can infer from this post that JM's products are USA-made: Matrix FRFR vs. Atomic CLR - Page 2 - The Gear Page
Click to expand...

Hmm ... well, is the CLR a JM product or a JM *design* that Atomic build?

I just had a good read through the Atomic site, if you go and look over the Mesa or Fender, Peavey sites theres lots of "Proudly made in the USA" "Handbuilt in California" "American made amplifiers" etc. Same applies to Marshall and other quality European makes. Matrix clearly state they are British Made. Looking on the Atomic site, I don't see that, and looking through the manuals, the back panels don't appear to have "Made in the USA" on them either.


I may be wrong, but if they were American made, they would be shouting that loud and proud. From that I might infer that Atomic are not made in the USA. Its a stronger indication than the very thin implication in JM's post, and he is NOT Atomic, he's Frazier.

"qingcong" may well be right, maybe people don't mind where stuff is made, and yes Apple produce some great products in China. I do expect people to be up front and straight about the country of origin so I can make an informed choice. I would expect to pay a premium price for a USA made or quality European piece of kit. If I ended up paying premium price for something dressed up as USA made that turned out to be Chinese, that would upset me.
 
Last edited:
My recollection (which might be mistaken) was that prior Atomic stuff (Reactor, FRatomic) was made in China. While I like buying stuff made in the US and EU, having something made in China doesn't really bother me. Country of manufacture is no guaranty of quality and I get the economic drivers of offshore manufacturing.
 
aleclee said:
My recollection (which might be mistaken) was that prior Atomic stuff (Reactor, FRatomic) was made in China. While I like buying stuff made in the US and EU, having something made in China doesn't really bother me. Country of manufacture is no guaranty of quality and I get the economic drivers of offshore manufacturing.
Click to expand...

Thats fair enough, but those "economic drivers of offshore manufacturing" should be reflected in the price. and I like I said, I expect them to be clear and up-front about where its coming from.

Quality is one of the factors, the other is spares availability. If I buy a quality bit of European or American made kit, there is a good chance that 10 or 20 years down the line it will still be going strong. If the manufacturer goes belly-up (how many times has that happened in the music industry?) with a quality off-the-shelf driver, I'll be able to get a recone or diapragm without problem. If it contains some Chinese driver that was "made using a secret blend of carbon fiber, vinyl ester resin, wolf spit, and bat boogers" the chances of getting that are slim to zero.

Basically, I expect to pay a fair bit less for Chinese made stuff, and I expect them to be up front about the country of manufacture.
 
"CrazyTrainer" clearly has an agenda. He has 6 posts all directed at trying to create some sort of controversy that doesn't exist. As far as "smelling a rat", I think he just caught a waft of himself. His posting style and motivation remind me of a well known shill that hasn't been around these parts for a while.

Atomic has never made any attempt to conceal that it currently assembles its products in China - on the contrary it has been completely open about it. It's marked on our products and shipping boxes.

The high quality parts used to make Atomic products are sourced from all over the world including the US and Europe. The CLR Series is being made to a very high standard at the same contract manufacturer we've used for years. I routinely go over there to personally supervise production and I'm always impressed with the detail, quality and care that goes into the manufacturing of our products. The value of the CLR series is going to be second to none. To imply that all Chinese made products are "cheap" or "tricky" is simply ridiculous and a lame attempt to smear Atomic's nearly 10 year reputation for quality and service.

On a positive note, I'm really excited to start sharing more details of the CLR series and its rollout in the coming weeks. I think you guys are going to love 'em. Stay tuned.

-TK
 
Thanks for clearing that up Tom.

My next major purchase will almost certainly be an FRFR wedge, thats my only "agenda", nothing more, and this is my first visit to this forum, so you are mistaken.

I'm a guitarist, I've played for 30 years and just about got the hang of it now, although some would disagree on that point ;) and I love playing and love the way the market is giving us really great new products to play with. If I look back to my first amp (a Vox AC30) and some home-made effects pedals, its completely changed now. The only thing I wish they would sell is faster fingers and/or small boxes of musical ability .. but I live in hope.

I'm sure the CLR is a fine product, and I look forward to hearing it, I've been lucky enough to hear the Matrix wedges, I would like to hear the CLR before making a choice though. Any clues as to (roughly) when we can expect to see them in Europe?

Thanks for taking the time to respond.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom