High end fizz...is this normal?

[grape]

Just for additional reference you can hear the fizz in most of the presets in the following clip. I understand that this also happens in the real world and think it's great that the Axe reflects this quality. However, my opinion is that I'd like an "off" switch for it b/c I don't like how it sounds (real or not) in lower gain sounds.

3.02 by plum-55 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

9:13 : 012 USA Clean : You can hear it at the lower gain portion of the clip
9:29 : you can hear it clearly at this point
11:30 : Recto Orange : you can hear it all over this clip but it's not bad as it is in lower gain amps.

 

[jon]

Great demo there grape! it's actually the lower gain stuff that would benefit from something like this - with the heavier stuff you WANT some of that fizz to give that 'cutting' aggressive sound like van halen. I know most of the forum here is into heavy stuff, but I'm into clean and mild crunch, and I'd like to be able to dial it back a smidgen.

In my mixes I normally cut out some of the 'fizzy' frequencies, even when I record with real amps. It's an annoying kind of thing for me, but it's a part of real amp sounds. I am still in awe that we can do things with the axe that might not be possible with a real amp....

 

[Boogieman]

I am interested in this; not so much in an, "I want this feature," but rather, "I am wanting to know more please!"

Is this referring to "AB2" (type?) operation? Crossover distortion? I ask because you say "turn off." With an amp, wouldn't (unwanted) grid conduction be *dealt with* via redesign/modification of one or more component(s) (values)? Or am I considering a more severe consequence of, say, "*overpowering* grid blocking" (grid clamp).. which I suppose might be when grid conduction clips? Is the (sometimes) desired "grid conduction" you are referring to the very *early* (possibly) pleasant onset of grid clamp (even harmonics)? Or am I overthinking, and this is (simply?) toggling coupling on/off?

(sorry for my terminology brain farting.. or "neuro-grid blocking" (lol!).. it has been a year or so since I have needed to tap this information so deeply... thank you for making me dig! Wish I had the wealth of knowledge you do)

I don't have the motivation to read this entire thread, but I think this is what is being discussed. It may well get back to the "knock" that Cliff was discussing finally identifying/modeling.

Blocking Distortion

Interesting reading anyway for folks not familiar with Aiken's excellent site.

Boogie

 

[grape]

it's actually the lower gain stuff that would benefit from something like this - with the heavier stuff you WANT some of that fizz to give that 'cutting' aggressive sound like van halen.

I'm not as familiar with high gain and hadn't really noticed it in all of the AxeFX II recordings b/c it's more 'constant' and less obvious. Can someone share some examples of a real amp that has this same paper shredding sound in it? For example does an AC30TB have it? I haven't noticed it in a real amp and I don't have an AC30 handy anymore/yet again (I want it to create IRs). By the way, the only time this sound has bothered me is when it sounds like digital artifact and is too exposed. Other than that it definitely adds a subtle quality to the sound which if dialed out completely may not be desirable.

 

[urowinner]

I have added a parameter that lets you turn off "grid conduction" which is the primary contributor of "fizz". Note that many of those classic rock tones, i.e. EVH, rely on fizz to get that cutting sound.

Thank you, Cliff! I really appreciate your willingness to listen to our opinions and make modifications based on our suggestions. Your customer support is one of the key things that make Fractal a great company and the AxeFx a great product. Much appreciated...

 

[Rex]

I have added a parameter that lets you turn off "grid conduction" which is the primary contributor of "fizz". Note that many of those classic rock tones, i.e. EVH, rely on fizz to get that cutting sound.

Wow. Toss around an idea for a few days, and Cliff implements it, whether he personally thinks it's a good idea or not. Seriously, where else are you gonna find that?

 

[rsf1977]

Good news, man it feels the Axefx II firmware is moving forward at warp speed

 

[Audiounity]

I've always noticed that my Mesa's (when running 6L6's as opposed to EL34's,)can get fizzy very easily and that is part of the Mesa sound. In a band context it does help to cut however. I ordered my Axe II this friday and look forward to entering the realm with you all.
Happy Holidays

 

[nikki-k]

I don't have the motivation to read this entire thread, but I think this is what is being discussed. It may well get back to the "knock" that Cliff was discussing finally identifying/modeling.

Blocking Distortion

Interesting reading anyway for folks not familiar with Aiken's excellent site.

Boogie

Whoa! That is a goldmine of information! I must add that to the thread about understanding amps!
I wonder if he has ever authored/published a book? If not, he should absolutely consider it. I would devour it, and keep it on shelf #1

 

[javajunkie]

Has any one tried turning the transformer match down to see if it the fizz some are taking about lessens.

I made a sound that exemplified the fizz ****I think***** many are talking about (sometimes I think we get talking about different things). I went through every existing poweramp parameter. I found turning the transformer match down minimizes the fizz (paper crinkling distortion).

Try, it can't hurt.

 

[sprint]

I have added a parameter that lets you turn off "grid conduction" which is the primary contributor of "fizz". Note that many of those classic rock tones, i.e. EVH, rely on fizz to get that cutting sound.

Again - thanks - response to customers' wishes is just awesome with this product (even when customers' wishes may be headed in two directions at the same time!! -.

Anyway - Interesting thread. Is Radley still active on this board? Would love to hear his comments on this.

 

[melodisk]

Has any one tried turning the transformer match down to see if it the fizz some are taking about lessens.

I made a sound that exemplified the fizz ****I think***** many are talking about (sometimes I think we get talking about different things). I went through every existing poweramp parameter. I found turning the transformer match down minimizes the fizz (paper crinkling distortion).

Try, it can't hurt.

Yes it really helps a lot,and could easily be where the fizz can be dialed out,
just a bit anoying to dial it out all the time,when you just want to choose an amp and rock away,
i suppose its all good when combined with the band,making a good blend and cutting true the mix
but at bedroom level it´s not my cup of tea,also in some situations in my studio i really dont like it.
i also use the transformer match to dial out fizz from my line 6 relay,also using cable simulation,strange stuff sometimes,
the good thing is that everything is possible with the viking axe

Best regards

A great Dane

 

[guitarzpt]

With all respect for Mr. Cliff that has done a hell of a job with AXE-FX I and II, I think that the problem is not the high-end fizz being there. Its just that it kinda sounds the same through most of the amps. Kind of like a sonic AXE-FX signature.

But I'm sure it will be sorted out in the future.

 

[kerrlehr]

Just for additional reference you can hear the fizz in most of the presets in the following clip. I understand that this also happens in the real world and think it's great that the Axe reflects this quality. However, my opinion is that I'd like an "off" switch for it b/c I don't like how it sounds (real or not) in lower gain sounds.

3.02 by plum-55 on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

9:13 : 012 USA Clean : You can hear it at the lower gain portion of the clip
9:29 : you can hear it clearly at this point
11:30 : Recto Orange : you can hear it all over this clip but it's not bad as it is in lower gain amps.

OK - The challenge to "Record it" was made repeatedly through this thread, including by Cliff. YOU DELIVERED! I am biased, and honestly, not in the favor of the "Fizz" crowd so far.... BUT, I honestly do hear it with out a doubt. I would be ignorant to claim otherwise. What I hear can be described as this; Imagine laying a 4x12 cabinet on the ground speakers faced straight up. (OK on some bricks so the thing could be plugged in) Then take a splash of sand and drop it on the cones of each speaker. Then play while listening and looking. Hearing with the visual assistance of the sand. You can barely hear the sand particles dancing around on top of each cone. You can look and literally see the sand lightly dancing on the speakers jumping maybe 2" or so like those little football players on our old vibration football games. It is very light, but it is there. The plexi's were not as strong as perhaps the USA 13 where it was pretty pronounced. In no case a deal killer, but in almost every clip in the series, it was faintly audible. I m hearing sand though, not tearing paper.

Thanks for helping to put a face to the audio picture. Hmmmmmmm.... I do hear that on my tube amps too to varying extents. But as I listen, I do hear the absolutely identical sound in varying amounts on all of the clips you posted. I am still scratching my head and on the fence on this one. Going to watch and learn from here. Beyond my pay grade.

 

[chris]

hopefully when people start using the realism reduction, i mean grid conduction parameter, there won't be tons of threads then stating "my guitar doesn't cut through the mix" or "my guitar sounds dead and lifeless" or "why doesn't the axe-fx come with a banana."

 

[LostInSpace]

hopefully when people start using the realism reduction, i mean grid conduction parameter, there won't be tons of threads then stating "my guitar doesn't cut through the mix" or "my guitar sounds dead and lifeless" or "why doesn't the axe-fx come with a banana."

Not to start a philosophical discussion, but I want to note that if you want to look at it like that, many or all of the advanced parameters can be viewed as "realism reduction", because the real amps have fixed values for these things, and when you adjust, you're moving away from the "real amp" values. For me, in the end who cares? It's all about tonal flexibility, and the Axe is awesome in this regard and continues to become even more so.

 

[luke]

Is this new feature in 3.04 or in the future?

 

[chris]

Not to start a philosophical discussion, but I want to note that if you want to look at it like that, many or all of the advanced parameters can be viewed as "realism reduction", because the real amps have fixed values for these things, and when you adjust, you're moving away from the "real amp" values. For me, in the end who cares? It's all about tonal flexibility, and the Axe is awesome in this regard and continues to become even more so.

agreed.

 

[nikki-k]

Has any one tried turning the transformer match down to see if it the fizz some are taking about lessens.

I made a sound that exemplified the fizz ****I think***** many are talking about (sometimes I think we get talking about different things). I went through every existing poweramp parameter. I found turning the transformer match down minimizes the fizz (paper crinkling distortion).

Try, it can't hurt.

I also played with Transformer HF a bit (with and without this, as well as Transformer LF). Transformer construction.. and I have made a (huge? obvious?) assumption that the Xformer section is for the OT, and only the OT.. varies; change the windings, construction, materials, etc and (arguably, I suppose) drastic changes with tone occur. Since we do not have the ability to swap actual OTs in our virtual amps, tailoring these parameters to provide a broad, "pseudo" change can be pretty effective! Consider the bandwidth and construction of an old, vintage OT on, say, a Plexi; now swap in a a "cleaner," broader bandwidth OT (such as a Hammond). Yeah, I strayed from the point.. which was... "What Java said, plus check the other Xformer parameters as well."

 

[barhrecords]

I recommend starting with the Edit -> Amp -> Spkr -> Hi Freq, Hi Q and Hi Res parameters before going to the Transformer parameters. The Amp -> Spkr page will really get you there once you have a cab sim in the ballpark.

Richard