High end fizz...is this normal?

When I focus on it, it still sounds like an artifact to me. However, since then I've also paid greater attention to the sound my real tube amps make, and I have realized they also have this same characteristic (sort of a rasp or ragged edge on the tone), I just hadn't noticed before. So as Cliff indicated, I guess this is by design.
Excellent observation. I've noticed the same things in people's reaction to pick attack on the Axe-FX. Some folks think that's an artifact. But "real" amps do the same thing.

I think part of the problem is that the Axe-FX produces good tone at low volumes. Tube amps don't, so folks are used to hearing tube amps at higher volume, where these "artifacts" are perceived as "part of the loud." They're not used to hearing the same tonal character at lower volume, so they hear it as artificial.
 
Excellent observation. I've noticed the same things in people's reaction to pick attack on the Axe-FX. Some folks think that's an artifact. But "real" amps do the same thing.

I think part of the problem is that the Axe-FX produces good tone at low volumes. Tube amps don't, so folks are used to hearing tube amps at higher volume, where these "artifacts" are perceived as "part of the loud." They're not used to hearing the same tonal character at lower volume, so they hear it as artificial.

Finally someone who "gets it".
 
Man, I knew there was something wrong with my Axe-Fx II! My Axe-Fx II does not have any of the fizz my old GT-8 did. Cliff, do you have any suggestions as to how I can get my Axe-Fx II to also produce this fizz? Maybe you could add it in to a future firmware release for those of us who are missing out on it.

Sorry for the sarcasm, I couldn't resist, but seriously, I think the incredible accuracy of the 3.0x firmware has really brought out the highs and lows that were previously hidden/muffled before. To me, the 3.0x firmware seems to be much more dynamic and I found that I had to lower the input level of my Instr In, it still tickles the red but just barely. That made a big difference in the sound of the amp models to my ear, especially with the high gain models, which were sounding too compressed before I lowered the value. Also, I'm sure you all know this, but playing with high volume and especially high gain (even at low volume) really brings out the imperfections in your guitar. Subtleties like fret buzz, spring buzz, knob crackle, out of tune strings, and incorrect intonations are magnified and much more noticeable. I'm not saying that any of these are the cause of the issues described in this thread, just mentioning that due to the clarity of the new firmware it's possible that you may be noticing things that you did not before. And, these things could produce sounds that could be perceived as being digital artifacts.

Some suggestions...
  • Make sure you're on the latest versions of the firmware, presets, USB driver and Axe-Edit.
  • If using Axe-Edit and the 3.04 firmware, after selecting a preset, make sure that the Power Tube Hardness is set to 4.250 and the Triode Hardness is set to 3.500. These are the correct default values for all amps and should reduce some harshness and possible fizz.
  • Pick a favorite high gain preset (I used FAS Modern and Das Metal) and adjust the Instr In up and down in small increments until it sounds "right" to your ears. Then check that setting against a few other presets (another high gain one, a medium gain one and a clean one). Try to find the setting where different gain structures all sound good (for me it's at 54.1).
  • Try resetting your Axe-Fx II.
  • I know I don't need to say this but I will for the record. Always tune your guitar every time before you play. Slight changes in temperature and humidity can easily throw it out of tune.
  • Check your guitar setup regularly. Again, slight changes in temperature and humidity, especially this time of year, can impact your neck and cause fret buzzes and throw off the intonation.
  • Low action + high pickup height = high maintenance. If you're running this setup (like I am) you're prone to get neck and pickup noise, if you’re OK with this and know what you're doing then fine. If not, you may want to try lowering your pickup height a bit or raising your action.
Some questions for those of you with the "fizzies"...
  • Is your Axe-Fx II connected via USB when you hear the fizz?
  • Do you hear the fizz when not using headphones?
  • What is your signal chain? Are you FRFR, going through a cab, or running direct to a PC, mixer, recording device?
  • Are the global settings correct for your signal chain (i.e. power amp and cab sims)?
  • Have you modified the global EQs?
  • Do you experience fizz on high gain, medium gain, or clean presets or some combination of the three?
  • Does the fizz go away if you lower the volume on your guitar?
  • Does the fizz go away if you lower the gain on the amp model?
  • Do you hear the fizz if you mute the strings and play hard percussively?
Good luck! Please take this post positively; I really am trying to help you out.
 
That's the way a Plexi is supposed to sound. That's due to the cathode follower. That raspiness helps it cut through in a mix.

Yea I have to start listening to my tone tone dialed in a mix, every time I dial in a tone without a band context it utterly sucks when I start tracking and I end up cutting lows and boosting highs. I had this old clip I did and it was kind of scratchy and crunchy in the highs and kind of biting and I was sure that tone was inferior to my new preset, so I tracked the new tone and listened back and to my shock the old scratchy tone sat really well and was clear and the new tone was tubby and undefined. I'm starting to get my head around the idea of designing guitar sounds for a band perspective rather then a solo rocking by myself situation, they're not the same. I just need to keep reminding myself that I can't beat the system there are some universal guitar truths that are unavoidable, and although the AxeFx can do many things traditional guitar amps can't, it cannot change the frequency spectrum that makes guitars sing, lol. Well Happy Holidays and tweakins' all!
 
I give up.

LOL.. I feel for you my brother but you wanted an evolving system and by your genius we have one. Merry Christmas to you! After which though, get back to that keyboard and get rid of that fizz and make me want to sell my tube amps :razz. Or not, it's pretty great the way it is.
 
Sounds just like the tube overtones and/or natural tube "fizz" that I hear on my;
Suhr Badger 18w w/ Eminence Red Fang 12", Matchless Chieftain and Bogner Shiva. They all have it because they are all tube amps.

I wonder, not meaning to sound judgmental or insulting, but, when is the last time you actually played an actual tube amp in an otherwise quiet setting where you can hear the tubes doing what tubes do without a band hiding the normal tube fizz that tube amps all have? I hear nothing but tube goodness. If you don't like that sound, you probably don't like tube amps. Try the SS JC120 and take it from there, add fake overdrive, distortion etc. before long it can sound artificial, which, no disrespect intended, is what you seem to be craving. Or understand that even the "fizz" that you are hearing is a 100% digital recreation (good and what you consider as bad) which is so accurate, that it even has the true and accurate fizz of any and all of my real, and world class tube amps. (Some of the ones you paid over $2,400.00 to recreate instantaneously)

Good job Factual - "NAILED IT" to the point that guys are now actually complaining that it doesn't sound artificial anymore. "Dude, it's not pristine", and AMEN for that. It's accurately tube sounding now. There is nothing wrong here my friend...
 
i give up ,

i will accept the fizzFX,i love it to death no matter what
i accept that tubes amps also suffer from this Fizz´y ness

Will i stop searching for a fizz free setup ??? no never,
Why ??? because im a different kind of purist
Do i love transistor amps ??? Hell no
Do i love Fractal ??? Hell Yes , they make impossible,possible

best regards
 
I give up.
oh man... I can only imagine how this feels... first people complained for years about any modeller not sounding accurate enough, missing the mojo of tube amps, the anomalies of tubes etc...and when finally someone cracks those "secrets" they can't deal with the real thing... kinda funny actually.

a lot of this is psychology actually. there's still a black box in front of the user producing those tones, so it's easier to question if everything's the way it's supposed to be while if you play a tube amp, no matter how fizzy or not, it's taken for what it is...
 
I've read this thread with interest over the past couple of days and it looks like I was in the wrong in my contribution to this conversation. Many hard core tone aficionados are satisfied with the accuracy of the amp emulation...and although tone is subjective, there is little arguing with what an amp "sounds" like. The answer to the question posed in title of this thread "High end fizz....is this normal?" appears to be yes.

I didn't think of it before originally posting, but the question I'm most interested in asking is "High end fizz.....is there a way to dial it back?". I reckon that's a different thread entirely.

I'm happy the amps are emulated well. Thanks, Cliff!
 
Im sure no one wants to offend Cliff,
but we should all be able to speak our minds in here right ?
i will find a routine for removing the fizz on all my presets,no problem
i accept the fact that im part of a small group of different ears,i can live with that easily.
 
Just let it blend in - Try it - It worked for all of your favorites

I've read this thread with interest over the past couple of days and it looks like I was in the wrong in my contribution to this conversation. Many hard core tone aficionados are satisfied with the accuracy of the amp emulation...and although tone is subjective, there is little arguing with what an amp "sounds" like. The answer to the question posed in title of this thread "High end fizz....is this normal?" appears to be yes.

I didn't think of it before originally posting, but the question I'm most interested in asking is "High end fizz.....is there a way to dial it back?". I reckon that's a different thread entirely.

I'm happy the amps are emulated well. Thanks, Cliff!

I personally think this is a case of tunnel vision hearing. The key here is that you now have true and accurate emulations of the very amplifiers, cabinets, mic's, mic placement etc. <minus all of the sonic physics of rooms, reflections etc. which they had to deal with in the past>.

In your growth as a musician, you heard players, songs, tones which for what ever reason, you made a soulful connection with, that somehow caused you to become a musician. A serious one at that if you were willing to plop down the hard earned cash for an AXE II, and likely invest 100's or even 1,000's of hours refining your playing, learning, exploring, playing gigs etc.

You need to know that this so called "high end fizz" was sitting right there in the mix of most all of the players who you love to hear. The difference here is, that now you sit here in a room hearing only yourself. That so called fizz is there, you are focusing on it like a fly in the room. I challenge you to remove your focus from that so called "artifact" and try just accepting it for a bit, so that your mind can once again focus on your playing. Try recording some tracks, drop them into a mix, lay down some bass if you have one, some drum tracks, pan layers, just do what recording entails. Watch it blend and ultimately meld into its place in the overall mix.

I have a great level of confidence, that the old "Fizz" will have become long gone at this time. It very well may actually diminish your sound quality if you remove freq. ranges which are core to the overall sound being produced by your full spectrum being recorded. This all applies equally if you simply go and rehearse, or gig with your band.

Some may believe they know better than guys like, say; Jimi, Eric, SRV, Slash and so on and so forth, and you may have no choice but to go ahead and "Dial It Back" and over purify your tone. But if you want the pieces of the tones that turned you on to playing in the first place, and which concertedly make up your own sound, trust in history a little bit and just play your heart out.

This has been in the tracks you have loved, and I strongly suspect, when dropped into your mix, it will prove as a non-issue just as it did theirs. Have an open mind and keep your focus on your playing.

These are my opinions and may differ from yours. IMHO they are correct - Nobody is right, or wrong when it come to your sound. Feel free to ignor us (It won't hurt our feelings) if you believe you have a new sound - Go with what you want, not what we say - Just consider our experience (as well as the many historic music who too, had "High end Fizz" in their tones) as you craft your personal sound.

God Bless, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all! PEACE
 
I personally think this is a case of tunnel vision hearing. The key here is that you now have true and accurate emulations of the very amplifiers, cabinets, mic's, mic placement etc. <minus all of the sonic physics of rooms, reflections etc. which they had to deal with in the past>.

In your growth as a musician, you heard players, songs, tones which for what ever reason, you made a soulful connection with, that somehow caused you to become a musician. A serious one at that if you were willing to plop down the hard earned cash for an AXE II, and likely invest 100's or even 1,000's of hours refining your playing, learning, exploring, playing gigs etc.

You need to know that this so called "high end fizz" was sitting right there in the mix of most all of the players who you love to hear. The difference here is, that now you sit here in a room hearing only yourself. That so called fizz is there, you are focusing on it like a fly in the room. I challenge you to remove your focus from that so called "artifact" and try just accepting it for a bit, so that your mind can once again focus on your playing. Try recording some tracks, drop them into a mix, lay down some bass if you have one, some drum tracks, pan layers, just do what recording entails. Watch it blend and ultimately meld into its place in the overall mix.

I have a great level of confidence, that the old "Fizz" will have become long gone at this time. It very well may actually diminish your sound quality if you remove freq. ranges which are core to the overall sound being produced by your full spectrum being recorded. This all applies equally if you simply go and rehearse, or gig with your band.

Some may believe they know better than guys like, say; Jimi, Eric, SRV, Slash and so on and so forth, and you may have no choice but to go ahead and "Dial It Back" and over purify your tone. But if you want the pieces of the tones that turned you on to playing in the first place, and which concertedly make up your own sound, trust in history a little bit and just play your heart out.

This has been in the tracks you have loved, and I strongly suspect, when dropped into your mix, it will prove as a non-issue just as it did theirs. Have an open mind and keep your focus on your playing.

These are my opinions and may differ from yours. IMHO they are correct - Nobody is right, or wrong when it come to your sound. Feel free to ignor us (It won't hurt our feelings) if you believe you have a new sound - Go with what you want, not what we say - Just consider our experience (as well as the many historic music who too, had "High end Fizz" in their tones) as you craft your personal sound.

God Bless, Merry Christmas and Happy Holidays to you all! PEACE

+10

Perfect!

Bill
 
I'll record some "fizz" in a few days here.

The fizz is in AC15 and other "clean" amps especially when dirt box is turned on.
 
... It very well may actually diminish your sound quality if you remove freq. ranges which are core to the overall sound being produced by your full spectrum being recorded. This all applies equally if you simply go and rehearse, or gig with your band.

This. I've tried EQing out fizz before. It doesn't sound good. FWIW, my tube amp makes high end fizz also... more so than its Axe Fx equivalent. The tunnel vision hearing thing is true also, it's all too easy to pick out a frequency and be like "what is that??"

Bias plays a significant part in this. We're taught that tube amps sound good. We've also been taught that modellers can only try to sound like a tube amp. So, when we're listening critically to a piece of gear that is claiming to be an almost flawless digital replication of a tube amp, and we hear something we don't like, we automatically assume that it doesn't sound like a tube amp. The thought that, perhaps, the characteristics that we don't like are those of a tube amp never crosses our minds.

Makes you wonder if we may one day have dirt sounds beyond those which are produced by tube amps. Not that tube tones might be replaced, but that different sounds might be invented based on tube characteristics. One can only speculate.
 
Makes you wonder if we may one day have dirt sounds beyond those which are produced by tube amps. Not that tube tones might be replaced, but that different sounds might be invented based on tube characteristics. One can only speculate.
This. The search for tone doesn't end with tube amps or tube amp emulation. Historically, our tones have been limited to what tube circuits and cabs can produce. Tube tones are being nailed as we speak. The tone envelope will be pushed beyond those limits.

We already have a taste of that with the Mid Resonance speaker parameters in the amp block. These parameters can enhance your tone, but nothing like them exists in "real" tube amps. As the manual puts it, this allows "'hyper-realistic' tones" that no physical amp can produce.
 
I like where this thread is going

This. The search for tone doesn't end with tube amps or tube amp emulation. Historically, our tones have been limited to what tube circuits and cabs can produce. Tube tones are being nailed as we speak. The tone envelope will be pushed beyond those limits.

We already have a taste of that with the Mid Resonance speaker parameters in the amp block. These parameters can enhance your tone, but nothing like them exists in "real" tube amps. As the manual puts it, this allows "'hyper-realistic' tones" that no physical amp can produce.

I Wrote in my prior post the following:
if you believe you have a new sound - Go with what you want, not what we say - Just consider our experience (as well as the many historic music who too, had "High end Fizz" in their tones) as you craft your personal sound.

I too believe that new sounds are coming, and greatly via means such as AXE FX II - This is exactly why I took time to challenge our younger, newer players to hear our experience, yet follow their dream sound. I believe that the next tones are truly coming around the corner. We may be witnessing just this in threads such as this one.

I am so curious to see where this all leads. I suppose that it is like salt and pepper, not too much of anything, and a pinch of something that nobody else has tried so far..... The means to do just this is looking us in the eyes via the AXE FX II - Please push this box to it's limit guys!
 
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