High end fizz...is this normal?

chancefx said:
Yesterday, before posting the plexi (again, poor discernment on my part by using the plexi as an example), other users said they hear what I hear on my clips from the top boost and Mr Z.
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If you're looking to the Plexi, top boost and Mr Z for a certain sound and not coming up satisfied - I'd bet you'd have some fun with the Wrecker 1. Play with your guitar's volume, keep turning it down and see what happens.
 
Scott Peterson said:
... that those with buzzy high gain tones *might* have drive settings too high, master volumes too low (or too high) and other such issues if you getting buzzy high gain tones. Start from scratch, ...
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In addition to this, I'd like to contribute an observation I already made with former firmware updates, also with the Ultra: when upgrading to a new firmware that changes major aspects of amp modeling, it is likely that - depending on your settings - internal structures of the advanced amp parameters become corrupted and you get unpredictable results. I heard random artefacts in my amp sounds, a ring modulator type of fizz especially when you drive gainy amps low, and things like that. I consider this to be normal and unavoidable because of the changes in advanced amp parameters. So it is essential that you reset the advanced amp parameters to default after such a firmware upgrade, imho. It is in the release notes though, so just sayin'...

Best regards
Friedlieb
 
In this case with the Marshall and ac30 (I don't own a dr z), the distortion characteristic seem to be similar to the originals. Changing to a cab that does not accentuate those frequencies works wonders.
 
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I have had alot of trouble lately after going fr and tube amp/cab mixture. I thought it might be a phase issue,but it's not. I'll keep at the eq troubleshooting for now.
 
Someone described the fizz as...tearing of paper, then take the top frequencies and paste them on top of the guitar tone. That is what I hear on a lot of the "clean" amps that are pushed a little bit with higher gain. Bright Plexi, Dr Z etc...

It is NOT a pleasing artifact. It is NOT in the real amplifiers tone circuit. It IS a digital artifact. It IS part of the Axe Fx sound. I just dial down the treble a bit and try to live with it.

Using power amp/guitar cab tames a lot of the high fizzle as well. I liked FRFR but I just can't get along with the crossover point between 1.5-3k for the tweeter. Thats's where I think the guitar attack and a lot of the "whole" of guitar punch comes from.
 
sonofmickel said:
Someone described the fizz as...tearing of paper, then take the top frequencies and paste them on top of the guitar tone. That is what I hear on a lot of the "clean" amps that are pushed a little bit with higher gain. Bright Plexi, Dr Z etc...

It is NOT a pleasing artifact. It is NOT in the real amplifiers tone circuit. It IS a digital artifact. It IS part of the Axe Fx sound. I just dial down the treble a bit and try to live with it.

Using power amp/guitar cab tames a lot of the high fizzle as well. I liked FRFR but I just can't get along with the crossover point between 1.5-3k for the tweeter. Thats's where I think the guitar attack and a lot of the "whole" of guitar punch comes from.
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I disagree wholeheartedly and completely. I've done exhaustive comparisons with real amps and the distortion spectra matches objectively (measured) and subjectively (listening tests).
 
I agree wholeheartedly and completely that the distortion spectra matches at a microscopic level.

What others, and myself are hearing is a "splat" of white noise that sits on top of the notes. It sounds like the upper frequencies of paper being torn. I can hear the fundamental tone of the amp and it sounds fine(spectacular). But there is this "thing" on top, a white noise, paper tear thing that seems unnatural to the original amps. I have turned up the treble on a real AC 15 and it does not have the paper tear thing going on. I have my global EQ with low pass on the top two frequencies, 8k is at -1 or something and it helps for most of the amps. I cannot deny that the artifact is there, I just can't.
 
i had fizz problems to,but after lowering my transformer match it seemed to go away,
i also found out that my line6 g30 relay was giving me problems with the high end,
i had to put it in cable mode to simulate an 30ft cable,that fixed the rest of my issue´s,
i still wonder why i need to lower this transformer match all the time,maybe a Leprechaun
is living in there or something :)
 
I know exactly what the OP is talking about. When I first got the AxeII back in the summer, I noticed the same thing, and I posted a thread (which includes a clip) about it:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-discussion/38357-getting-buzzing-noise-help-suggestions-needed.html#post524671

That was back with firmware 1.01, and in 1.02 that preset didn't do that anymore. I'm currently running 2.0c (haven't had time to retweak with 3.04), and that characteristic is there to a greater or lesser extent for several amp models.

When I focus on it, it still sounds like an artifact to me. However, since then I've also paid greater attention to the sound my real tube amps make, and I have realized they also have this same characteristic (sort of a rasp or ragged edge on the tone), I just hadn't noticed before. So as Cliff indicated, I guess this is by design.

When I'm playing live and not "micro-listening", I don't perceive this as part of the sound, even if it's there, so I'm not terribly concerned about it. If this is normal for amps with "cathode followers" (forgive me, I know next to nothing about amp circuits), is there a way to tweak the advanced parameters to reduce or eliminate the effect of the cathode follower?
 
Yea if there was a way to dial out the fizz or rasp or whatever you want to call it, that would be amazing. I agree it's in real amps but I still would love to get rid of it.
 
rsf1977 said:
Yea if there was a way to dial out the fizz or rasp or whatever you want to call it, that would be amazing. I agree it's in real amps but I still would love to get rid of it.
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So we are actually talking about improving the amp designs in the axe
to be without the flaws of the originals,
sounds very very interesting to me
 
Fizz, exactly. The new firmware definitely shows fizz across the board in the high gain stuff. Needs to be addressed for sure. Has been bothering me lately.
 
melodisk said:
So we are actually talking about improving the amp designs in the axe
to be without the flaws of the originals,
sounds very very interesting to me
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Well "improving" is a subjective term. A lot of guys out there would say the original amps are the ultimate tone to measure everything against and I can understand that. But I'm not an amp purist I don't really care about the way things have been done in the past so much. So I understand why many guys love the tone of amps with the cathode follower sound because that's what they like, and there's nothing wrong with that at all. I'm just wondering if there's a way to have it both ways so it appeals to all the camps. That's a mountain of a statement in itself, but you never know what's possible until you ask for it. I'm a high gain guy and the "fizz" seems to be an aspect I'd love to dial back a bit.
 
I agree with that it would be great to be able to roll back the cathode follower sound (if that is indeed the cause of the high end "fizz" in my Axefx II). I noticed the fizzy sound immediately when I first played high gain patches on my AxeII (fizz which wasn't present in my Ultra) and tried in vain to dial it out. Perhaps my ears are not experienced enough to appreciate the "truest" sound of all these great amps which have been modeled (I certainly haven't played all the models personally).

I try to approach my tone on the AxeFxII as "what a mic'ed cab will sound like" as opposed to "what a cab sounds like in the room".
If I mic'ed up a cab to record a guitar track, I would try to mic it in a way to minimize or avoid capturing that fizz (even if it is present in the actual amp). Honestly, it makes the amp sound less "real" to my ears...like a digital artifact (sorry)..

I don't feel entitled to a "remedy" from Cliff regarding this. I'm only entitled to my opinion, and I definitely preferred not having the high end fizz (irrespective of whether it is accurate to the amp or not). This isn't a subtle feature of the guitar tone, so I'm sure it's not as simple as adding a "fizz" knob to the parameters.

I'm a long time fractal fan (all the way from firmware 1.0 on the Ultra) writing from a place of gratitude and respect for how far the AxeFx has come towards modeling real amps. I just want to offer my feedback and echo some of the sentiments I share with other users. I can live with the fizz if I have to, but I think it's worth considering that its added realism may detract from what some users want in tone.
 
I'm not sure if this is the same I'm hearing with the II, but there IS a kind of fizz that wasn't there in the Ultra, but to me that's actually a BIG improvement as that IS there with any good tube amp I've played and it actually gives it another dimension and 3d-effect.
 
melodisk said:
So we are actually talking about improving the amp designs in the axe
to be without the flaws of the originals,
sounds very very interesting to me
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Well if high end detail bothers you roll off some of the transformers high frequency. Add some room to the speaker and call it a day. As for "improving"...really!?!?!?!?! Not to go into a lengthy diatribe but the idea is for an amp to actually have some dynamic response so when you roll down the guitar's volume it sounds alight clean. Listen to any AC/DC song that high end fizz is right there. It's what comes out of a speaker and IMO belongs.
 
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