Friedman Master Volume

@State of Epicicity Thanks SO much for all that detail, I really appreciate it!
I plan to give these a listen this weekend. Interesting thought on how an IR may or may not work similar guitars.
It's something I can keep in mind when building my presets. May be really good with one guitar, not so much with another.
Just as physical cabs don’t work well with every amp or guitar, it’s the same with virtual ones. Part of the fun is piecing together the stuff that works.
 
@State of Epicicity Thanks SO much for all that detail, I really appreciate it!
I plan to give these a listen this weekend. Interesting thought on how an IR may or may not work similar guitars.
It's something I can keep in mind when building my presets. May be really good with one guitar, not so much with another.

Take it with a grain of salt; it's just my theory. :) But I do find it to be the case for me! No problem on the info. This is stuff I've been completely and totally obsessing over for years, ever since I read this Paul Gilbert interview talking about using just a single channel on an amp live, and using his volume knob for everything. I thought, hell you could probably take that even further if you really focus on your wiring. With this setup and these types of tones the way I dial them in, I can get cool country / rock type tones with the bridge in parallel with the volume and tone really really low. There are all sorts of ways you can go with it. I don't play anything really country, but I love getting those tones for my own weirdness.
 
Just as physical cabs don’t work well with every amp or guitar, it’s the same with virtual ones. Part of the fun is piecing together the stuff that works.

Yes, I think this is the case. I think every subtle difference in guitars, pickups, picks, technique, bridges, what have you, is amplified (no pun intended) in a final tone, to where the small difference between two guitars or two players is the difference between an awesome tone for JimBob and a terrible tone for JamesBob. And you're so right that this is the fun part! When you find that magical IR that gels with your guitar, it's like the world opens up for you! That's one reason I love movable mic plugins, and capturing IRs from them. You can quickly and easily move around graphically till it sounds right, like an assistant engineer or a robot (in the case of Eric Valentine, e.g.) would do with the real thing. Then, with that IR, all of a sudden all the amps come alive, and you can start going from there.
 
@scottp I forgot to mention, since you wanted to know about the cab I'm using, that recently I've been stuck on the 4x12 Recto Slant Speaker Impedance Curve, so I have that set up as the global default. For me it works really well with that Factory 2 #723 Mark Day IR. Of course YMMV!
 
So I haven't really read this thread but figured out that it is saying dime the Friedman master volume. I have never liked the Friedman amps so I tried this last night and it worked. They really came alive. The BE 2010 was my favorite. Now I am going to have to read this thread through and through to see what other great tips I can find.

I'm curious, the BEs, HBEs, Smallbox and two Dirty Shirleys are the only Friedmans in the Fractal, correct? Actually this trick worked on a few more of my favorite amps.
 
So I haven't really read this thread but figured out that it is saying dime the Friedman master volume. I have never liked the Friedman amps so I tried this last night and it worked. They really came alive. The BE 2010 was my favorite. Now I am going to have to read this thread through and through to see what other great tips I can find.

I'm curious, the BEs, HBEs, Smallbox and two Dirty Shirleys are the only Friedmans in the Fractal, correct? Actually this trick worked on a few more of my favorite amps.

Awesome! Glad this worked well for you.

I did try this with some unintuitive selections (setting MV between 6 and 9), like the 5150 Lead Channel, the various VH4 models (included the Das Metall approximation), the Savages, the Eneergyball, and others. The one brand that didn’t seem to work at all was Splawn! Something about the Splawns just utterly requires either a lower MV, an OD to change the tone entirely, or mods to the amp itself.
 
Yes, I think this is the case. I think every subtle difference in guitars, pickups, picks, technique, bridges, what have you, is amplified (no pun intended) in a final tone, to where the small difference between two guitars or two players is the difference between an awesome tone for JimBob and a terrible tone for JamesBob. And you're so right that this is the fun part! When you find that magical IR that gels with your guitar, it's like the world opens up for you! That's one reason I love movable mic plugins, and capturing IRs from them. You can quickly and easily move around graphically till it sounds right, like an assistant engineer or a robot (in the case of Eric Valentine, e.g.) would do with the real thing. Then, with that IR, all of a sudden all the amps come alive, and you can start going from there.
I’m a big fan of Wall Of Sound (two-notes). I have about 250 cabs from their collection and find even with movable mics, some cabs just work better with some amps and guitar combinations. I currently own 4 physical cabs and know which sound good with which amps.
 
I’m a big fan of Wall Of Sound (two-notes). I have about 250 cabs from their collection and find even with movable mics, some cabs just work better with some amps and guitar combinations. I currently own 4 physical cabs and know which sound good with which amps.

Yeah, their cabs really sound great to me overall. Right now I think it might be ideal to have one of their hardware units for the cab section, because capturing IRs from WoS sounds different than the software itself, telling me there is more going on than just a standard static IR. TH-U by Overload is another great one, and the most flexible one I've seen. They have, for each mic and cab, a regular and remastered version of the mic, as well as a ReSpire version, which adds girth to the low end, and finally an angled version. With any of these captures, I tend to shorten the length of the IR anyway, and I still will apply Smoothing if it helps.
 
Yeah, their cabs really sound great to me overall. Right now I think it might be ideal to have one of their hardware units for the cab section, because capturing IRs from WoS sounds different than the software itself, telling me there is more going on than just a standard static IR.

By the way, I've been using a sine wave in Reaper plus ReaVerb or Voxengo DeConvolver to capture. I was messaged by someone who doesn't hear a difference with their captures from WoS and WoS itself, and they are using the IR capture utility in the Axe-FX III, so that might be my problem. I'm going to try that next.
 
By the way, I've been using a sine wave in Reaper plus ReaVerb or Voxengo DeConvolver to capture. I was messaged by someone who doesn't hear a difference with their captures from WoS and WoS itself, and they are using the IR capture utility in the Axe-FX III, so that might be my problem. I'm going to try that next.
WoS is just IRs. Voxengo DeConvolver is error-prone. It works but you gotta be careful when using it. The built-in IR Capture utility in the Axe-Fx is pretty much bullet-proof.
 
WoS is just IRs. Voxengo DeConvolver is error-prone. It works but you gotta be careful when using it. The built-in IR Capture utility in the Axe-Fx is pretty much bullet-proof.

Yeah, it's funny; I realized after that person messaged me that, for capturing movable mic IRs I've been doing the equivalent of playing freeware guitar amp plugins when I have the Axe-FX III sitting right in front of me. I played various amp plugins for years, always feeling really off and weird, with unnatural response and feel. Then the Axe-FX III changed my life as a player. I had felt like a utility is a utility; it can't be that easy to mess up. I guess no matter what, designers in audio have wildly different levels of understanding. You were mentioning something else recently about a Voxengo plugin, maybe an FFT analyzer, that their methods were not based on sound or nuanced understanding, so this makes sense to me. This makes me want to revisit all the cab presets I've captured before! Thanks so much.
 
Before I entered the modeling world, I had the Friedman JJ Jr, then the kemper stage then the fm3, now fm9. it was a great amp! Even at gigs, I don’t remember turning the master volume all the way up or very high. Is that because it was only a 20watt amp? i never fully jived with the fractal Friedman models, so I’m definitely going to try your tips later today. I also wonder how the turned up master volume and plexi tone stack would sound with the Big Hair amp model. That will be cool to try
 
Before I entered the modeling world, I had the Friedman JJ Jr, then the kemper stage then the fm3, now fm9. it was a great amp! Even at gigs, I don’t remember turning the master volume all the way up or very high. Is that because it was only a 20watt amp? i never fully jived with the fractal Friedman models, so I’m definitely going to try your tips later today. I also wonder how the turned up master volume and plexi tone stack would sound with the Big Hair amp model. That will be cool to try

Oh, cool to know those sounded good at lower MVs. I love this idea to try the Big Hair that way. I think the Big Hair is the other of Cliff's 800 mods, so it's cool to think of a beefy 800 with a Plexi tone stack. That's going on my to do list. :)
 
Oh, cool to know those sounded good at lower MVs. I love this idea to try the Big Hair that way. I think the Big Hair is the other of Cliff's 800 mods, so it's cool to think of a beefy 800 with a Plexi tone stack. That's going on my to do list. :)
Yes! Let me know how you make out! I’m going to try as well. I’d also be interested to hear if you’re able to clean it up well. Right now I have a control switch switching between the brit 800 and big hair because I can’t seem to clean up the big hair and idk if it’s me or just the nature of that amp model
 
Yes! Let me know how you make out! I’m going to try as well. I’d also be interested to hear if you’re able to clean it up well. Right now I have a control switch switching between the brit 800 and big hair because I can’t seem to clean up the big hair and idk if it’s me or just the nature of that amp model

Clean up is a tricky thing. I think you've got to be working with power amp distortion. And I think you've got to work with an amp that starts out thin at low volumes but gets beefy (in a good way) as the MV goes up. Like, when I first got the Axe-FX III, I was stuck on the Dirty Shirley for a long time. I would dime the MV, and, if I remember correctly, I would run the gain lower, but with a big boost in the preamp section. I messed with the BMT controls until I got something that sounded awesome with the guitar volume dimed and rolled back. I've gotten some good 800 presets before that worked fine for cleanup, but still I prefer Plexis.

Here's the other thing I do when I set up my guitar for best cleanup (how come I just heard Casey Affleck say, "I only used it for cleanup"?), I always set it so when my bridge volume is dimed, I have the tone rolled back to avoid a single-coil-like pick attack that just doesn't work. Then I make sure that with the volume really really low on the neck, that I can get a good mild breakup tone that I can use for clean-style arpeggios, even classical style playing. Once those extremes are met, I can get anything else easily. I can ramp up the neck volume for blues, rock, or metal, just being very careful with where I set my tone knob for each. I've learned I want the tone knob as low as possible, and it keeps everything sounding natural.

And this works for me because I have individual tone and volume controls per pickup, like a Les Paul. Without that kind of control panel layout, I think using a footswitch is the only way to go.

The caveats to my single channel approach are the potential for signal to noise ratio problems if you are playing in a place with shitty power and you just can't fight the noise level (and I don't mean 60 cycle hum, but just general other electrical noise), maybe the inability to hear the nuance of your own tone if the live mix you're hearing isn't helpful in your monitor or IEMs, and a lack of diversity in the character of your tones. But these are not necessarily going to happen of course; it's just my prepare-for-the-worst thought process.

I looked through my presets just now, and the only one I have with any kind of 800 is with Cliff's 800 Mod. I haven't tried it any time recently, I created it with FW 20.03, and I don't even remember what it sounded like, but I know it was meant to clean up well. Maybe it would sound okay on your axe, so I've attached it here, if it might help at all.
 

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@Jipps0525 More thoughts: for your current switching, you might try a Multiplexer or Mixer instead of Control Switch to get it gapless.

Also, I forgot to mention that, with the way I set it, when I roll back my volume knob I'll move up the tone close to or at 10 to get JTM45 type tones.

One thing I loose with my approach is the ability for a good quack. That may not be important to you, but I just can't get a tone that's clean enough for that but still gainy enough in general for everything else.
 
Before I entered the modeling world, I had the Friedman JJ Jr, then the kemper stage then the fm3, now fm9. it was a great amp! Even at gigs, I don’t remember turning the master volume all the way up or very high. Is that because it was only a 20watt amp? i never fully jived with the fractal Friedman models, so I’m definitely going to try your tips later today. I also wonder how the turned up master volume and plexi tone stack would sound with the Big Hair amp model. That will be cool to try
I tried the Big Hair last night.. I like what I heard with the Master Cranked but I think I had to add the eternal love in front to take out some of the boom.
 
I tried the Big Hair last night.. I like what I heard with the Master Cranked but I think I had to add the eternal love in front to take out some of the boom.
What cab were you using? That amp usually gives me more fizz that can be hard to unhear. Any boom for me usually is a product of a certain cab
 
@Jipps0525 More thoughts: for your current switching, you might try a Multiplexer or Mixer instead of Control Switch to get it gapless.

Also, I forgot to mention that, with the way I set it, when I roll back my volume knob I'll move up the tone close to or at 10 to get JTM45 type tones.

One thing I loose with my approach is the ability for a good quack. That may not be important to you, but I just can't get a tone that's clean enough for that but still gainy enough in general for everything else.
Another reason why I love my Variax. I can do all sorts of guitar models and pickup changes with a click! I can go from
Hot humbucker to strat in neck position which can greatly change the way an amp on edge of breakup sounds
 
Finally got a chance to upload the preset. Let me know what you guys think? Suggestions, etc.. Please take note that this preset shows LT Mix 7 as the cab, because I use 3rd party IRs and had to change them out. If you have these cabs, give them a try. In cab slot 1, I'm using YA FDMN Blend Mix 1 panned hard left 100% and in Cab 2, I'm using the OH Moabi LRG 121+88 panned hard right 100%.
Anyone get a chance to try this? I’m curious how it compares with some of your presets.
 
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