Friedman Master Volume

I don’t know if this adds to the discussion, but here goes: It’s been a long time ago, but I had a Dirty Shirley and played around with the tone stack. There’s a resistor/capacitor combination that sets the range of the tone stack, and the Dirty Shirley is set at 33K/500, which is part of what keeps the low end tight. The plexi values are 56K/250?, which makes it bassier and explains why the standard Superlead setting for a gainy tone is to have the bass really low or off. I think I’m remembering all of this correctly, but I’m sure somebody will let me know if not lol. If memory serves, I also tried 47K/500 which I believe was the SLO tonestack. When I was done, I went back to the original values, as it should be no surprise that Dave’s original circuit sounded best! I’d expect that this also depends a lot upon what cabinet you’re using. I had an oversized 212 with greenbacks in it.
 
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This thread has me excited to revisit the Friedmans later today. Modded Marshall sounds are something I’ve been really into lately, as I’m typically a 5150 or Recto guy. But my go-to is the Atomica. The Friedmans were always a little muddy or missing something when I tried them. Maybe this is the ticket.
 
With all of this talk of Friedmans and tonestack changes, have you guys tried the FAS Brown? I think it sounds like what your describing with your mods to these Friedmans.
 
I get that, but I don’t just mean the plexi tone stack. What does changing a tone stack in general do? Sorry for my confusion!! Lol!

It’s the pot values and tapers, as well as their centered frequencies. Cliff has said that some amp designs are very minor tweaks of famous designs, but centering the tonestack values around different frequencies. It’s a dramatic change to alter the tonestack.
 
With all of this talk of Friedmans and tonestack changes, have you guys tried the FAS Brown? I think it sounds like what your describing with your mods to these Friedmans.
Yes I did try the FAS Brown but that one does sound to flubby for my taste.
The Friedman is tighter an more raw and aggressive with the plexi tone stack.
 
I spent some time with these today and I finally got a tight and crushing modern metal tone out of this thing. BE C45 + Grinder boost at +21. 5153 red tone stack. Preamp low cut at 200 hz, master volume pushed a bit. Gain, treble and presence around 6-7. The negative feedback is a little lower than the others at stock settings so no changes there. Depth around 3 or 4. Try it with a 7 or 8 string.
 
I spent some time with these today and I finally got a tight and crushing modern metal tone out of this thing. BE C45 + Grinder boost at +21. 5153 red tone stack. Preamp low cut at 200 hz, master volume pushed a bit. Gain, treble and presence around 6-7. The negative feedback is a little lower than the others at stock settings so no changes there. Depth around 3 or 4. Try it with a 7 or 8 string.
Do you mind sharing the preset since you've basically listed most of the settings? :)

What cab?
 
Do you mind sharing the preset since you've basically listed most of the settings? :)

What cab?
I think I listed all of the settings actually haha. Everything else is stock settings. I use York Audio IRs but any Mesa cab with V30s should do the trick. The next time I’m at my computer I’ll see what I can do 🤙🏻
 
Just turned up the master to around 7-8 on my Friedman preset and DAMN. Love it. Thanks for the tip.

So glad it's something people are finding useful! I thought finally, there can't be an inherent design flaw, if you want to call it that, of it sounding weirdly dark. There's got to be a logic behind it. And I can only imagine how these things sound in the real world at a show! On all the models, for shits and giggles, I tried them with the MV at 10, and they all sounded good that way. I still backed off to between 6 and 8.5ish depending on the model and my tastes, but it tells me the real things are meant for big shows, and that they'll sound good until they deafen you. It also tells me I'll love to have a real one with lower wattage and drive the hell out of it!
 
Several years ago when I was shopping for real amps I tried the Friedman BE-50 Deluxe and the Runt 20. Both had that signature Friedman BE tone which to me is quite a hefty bottom end, but still remains tight. I see it as a modernized Superlead sound that is not as biting and thin plus it doesn't require the amp to be cranked to ungodly levels.

IMO these are not designed to be driven to powertube distortion but since there are no drawbacks doing that on Fractal, if it gives you the sound you like then that's the right sound. I have never found them to be dark sounding though.

But the amp that I took home was the Bogner Goldfinger 45 Superlead. It was more "old school" sounding compared to the Friedmans. Had it for several years and liked it a lot. It packed a lot into one amp and could be replicated in the Axe-Fx using the Super Reverb model for cleans and the 50W Plexi, JCM800 and Bogner Shiva models for overdrive.
 
@State of Epicicity I have been reading through this thread as time allowed and am excited to try this tonight.
Are there any factory cab you like with C 45 with the plexi tone stack?

It would be cool if you could do a quick summery of what you are using. Amp model, cabs, tone stack, any other crucial element so when the volume knob on the guitar is rolled down, good tone remains.

Thanks!!
 
Finally got a chance to upload the preset. Let me know what you guys think? Suggestions, etc.. Please take note that this preset shows LT Mix 7 as the cab, because I use 3rd party IRs and had to change them out. If you have these cabs, give them a try. In cab slot 1, I'm using YA FDMN Blend Mix 1 panned hard left 100% and in Cab 2, I'm using the OH Moabi LRG 121+88 panned hard right 100%.
 

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@Darrin66 and @Variable
Thanks for chiming in about this. This totally seems like a perfect amp if you don’t mind using an attenuator. I’m sure it starts getting uncomfortable by the time the tone really starts filling out. Man am I glad we’re in the age of modelers!
The BE50 is loud AF. I only use it through my PS2 direct these days, but when I had a space to hook it up to my Friedman 4x12, it was insane. I usually ran it between 3 and 5 on the MV. Very musical though even when it was giving me tinnitus.
 
@State of Epicicity I have been reading through this thread as time allowed and am excited to try this tonight.
Are there any factory cab you like with C 45 with the plexi tone stack?

It would be cool if you could do a quick summery of what you are using. Amp model, cabs, tone stack, any other crucial element so when the volume knob on the guitar is rolled down, good tone remains.

Thanks!!

In general, if you're looking for tones that clean up well with a single amp channel, the key I've found is to use an amp that's a little bright at low MV, but gets thick & juicy in a good way with the MV very very high. The gold standard is a Plexi, or a Plexi with an OD, like the Tube Driver 3-Knob, OC11, OCD HP, or 1981 DRV; set the drive to a low gain setting and higher level setting; also set the tone to a darker setting for better tones when you roll back. I can get a great range of tones this way with my guitar's control panel, without doing anything with the Axe-FX III. But with the BE-100, it's basically a better version of a Plexi with a great OD in front of it, so it idealizes that big time. I've actually found that the 5150 Crunch with very high MV is very good for this too! Not quite as versatile, but very kick ass.

With all the Friedmans (with or without the Plexi tone stack) my favorite cab for the moment is Factory Bank 2 #723, with Smoothing on 8.00. The caveat here is, to me, you really have to match an IR to your guitar, not to an amp. So many times I try other people’s presets (OPP, Yeah, You know me), compare to videos of them playing, and the exact same thing sounds like crap on my guitar, and I think it has to do with the IR, because once I swap whatever they have with one suited to my guitar, their presets sound great. All that to say, it may sound like crap for you. My guitar is really bright, and this factory IR balances well with it. If you use your LP, it may be too muffled or something.

For models, my favorite is the BE C45 right now, but they were all just shades of awesome to me. I mean, the HBE V3 is a freakin' monster. The thing about the C45 to me is that it's the best for versatility, with my guitar, anyway. I was able to roll back the volume and get all sorts of goodness. I'll run my bridge pickup with the volume on 10 and the tone rolled back (with my .015µF cap) to 6 or so, and it's great for high gain stuff, then I'll switch to my neck humbucker split to the outer coil, with the volume and tone (in '50s wiring with a .010µF cap) at something 0.5 each, and it's warm clean stuff that's beautiful. Then you increase the volume and tone together for blues and rock on the neck. I've attached my presets for the BE C45 stock and with the Plexi tonestack, although I think your guitar might have to have a tonal signature closer to mine to sound good; might take some tweaking.

I played with every Friedman model in the Axe, and the only one I couldn't gel with was the Dirty Shirley 2, but maybe that would still be cool later if I revisit it. As you can see with the included preset, I'm running the C45 with Gain at 10, Bass at 2.15, Mid at 9.00, Treble at 7.81, and MV at 8.33. Presence and Depth at 0, to maximize the body of the mids! On the Small Box I ran Gain at 10, Bass at 4.48, Mid at 6.85, Treble at 6.21, MV at 9.19, and Presence at 4.45. That tone has some ass to it; it's awesome!

But of course, your ears may tell you something better with your guitar; this just worked for me.
 

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@scottp If you're looking for general ways to stay on one channel on your amp and really exploit your volume and tone knobs on the guitar, I've attached a preset I made that I really like using that principal, with the Bluesbreaker pedal and a Plexi. I made it before I discovered high MV Friedmans haha.

And the key here I think for that way of thinking is in your guitar's wiring. Just to summarize my way: I have two humbuckers, each with two mini-switches, giving me North Split / South Split / Parallel / Series for each pickup,

Series - Parallel - North Split - South Split.png

each going into its own set of tone and volume knobs, like a LP, except I have modern LP wiring for the bridge (with a .010µF tone cap), to keep it fatter when rolling back, and 50s wiring on the neck (with a .015µF tone cap), to keep it bright and beautiful as I roll back. Really works well for me. I've also unbalanced the coils on my neck and lowered the whole thing for brightness and less output, and screwed down the coils on the bridge and raised it for fatness and more output. Here's how it looks:

Control Panel Layout.jpeg

To me the ultimate for what you're talking about, with versatility in rolling back your guitar knobs, is an HSS configuration. With my axe, I end up using the Neck outer coil split quite a bit, which is an okay compromise. I also get a fantastic quack with the neck outer and bridge inner combined. This "all tones in one channel" has been somewhat of an obsession with me, but I'm slowly getting out of it now, just interested in the myriad character of tone available in the Axe-FX III.
 

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@State of Epicicity Thanks SO much for all that detail, I really appreciate it!
I plan to give these a listen this weekend. Interesting thought on how an IR may or may not work similar guitars.
It's something I can keep in mind when building my presets. May be really good with one guitar, not so much with another.
 
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