FRACTAL WORLDWIDE is at it again on Ebay with an AXEFX 2 !!! $3,999

Status
Not open for further replies.
On a completely unrelated note R.D., I lived in Oconomowoc, WI for six weeks back in 2009. Lovely place. Seriously, a lot of beautiful natural spaces and really easy going people. I'd go there again for a relaxing long walks type vacation in a heartbeat.
 
I don't think that there is anything illegal here; some definite ethics grey areas though. But we're all big boys; if you don't want to buy from him then don't, it's simple. I see it as a guy who saw a business opportunity and is probably supplementing his income by a few hundred bucks each month by doing very little. And the big selling point that he seems to be capitolizing on is international sale issues and now availability. It's pretty smart if it works.

Now what pisses me off about it is that first he uses the company's name in his account which is misleading....not illegal, but scumbaggish. BUT what really irks me is that he is using clips from soundcloud in order to promote his item and I am most positive that he didn't get permission to use that media. Now since it's 'free' and on the internet there is probably little that could be done legally, but if those were my clips I'd replace all of my cuts with audio talking about how this guy is a dirtbag and see how long he keeps using it. Or even better record the crappiest sounding thing you can imagine. ;)
 
ALL of this could've been avoided with "pre-planning"? Candidly, what a joke statement that is.

The Cabbage Patch Kid effect is not a function of the product or its creators, its a well known human tendency to bull rush markets where there is scarcity.

To lay that aspect of human nature and its many nuances at Cliff's / Fractal's feet is absurd.
Click to expand...
I referenced this quote from someone else in a different thread: “Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it”

BTW – w/only 64 posts you probably haven’t been around long enough to know this …, but ….

Fractal HAD the historical data to know that this would definitely happen. In fact, every product roll-out experienced significant delays and wait times once the products were released.

In the case of the MFC-101 a waiting list was announced over a year before the unit was released. And initially it was ‘hinted’ at that the waitlisters would have first crack at purchasing. It wasn’t until the wait list grew to huge numbers that the story changed and the line-jumping for a premium was introduced …. People in the top 50 of the list waited in excess of six months to get their coupon to purchase ….

That’s how long it took for demand to wane and allow the waiting list to be honored.

So yeah, I’ll stand behind my statement that 99% of the hard-feelings could’ve been avoided with some additional pre-planning, and it has nothing to do with the Cabbage Patch Kid effect that you referenced ….

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it !


FPFL said:
On a completely unrelated note R.D., I lived in Oconomowoc, WI for six weeks back in 2009. Lovely place. Seriously, a lot of beautiful natural spaces and really easy going people. I'd go there again for a relaxing long walks type vacation in a heartbeat.
Click to expand...

Yeah I really love it, large enough to have a few amenities but still small town at heart. The Lakes really, REALLY enhance the effect too. I've lived there since 2002.

I was born 'n' raised in western MI, and this is as close to home as I've found anywhere in the upper mid-west ....
 
Last edited:
BK-Amps said:
It appears you are more bent out of shape with the posts than we are with the d-bag reseller fractalworldwide (he's a d-bag because he clearly lifted content from the fractal website and borderline misrepresents himself as an authorized retailer). If we wish to voice our opinion about it and you don't like it, then mind your own business! I personally don't care about the ad, but I do get irritated with curmudgeons polluting conversations as you did.
Click to expand...

again you as well as others seem to wind yourselves up unnecessarily when it really doesn't affect you does it? again too much time... i'm done.
 
shasha said:
I don't think that there is anything illegal here; some definite ethics grey areas though. But we're all big boys; if you don't want to buy from him then don't, it's simple. I see it as a guy who saw a business opportunity and is probably supplementing his income by a few hundred bucks each month by doing very little. And the big selling point that he seems to be capitolizing on is international sale issues and now availability. It's pretty smart if it works.

Now what pisses me off about it is that first he uses the company's name in his account which is misleading....not illegal, but scumbaggish. BUT what really irks me is that he is using clips from soundcloud in order to promote his item and I am most positive that he didn't get permission to use that media. Now since it's 'free' and on the internet there is probably little that could be done legally, but if those were my clips I'd replace all of my cuts with audio talking about how this guy is a dirtbag and see how long he keeps using it. Or even better record the crappiest sounding thing you can imagine. ;)
Click to expand...
I guess it depends on the definition of illegal. It is certainly violating eBay policies - which [I assume] are founded on legal briefs - and the seller's eBay name is using a trademarked company name, along with copying entire contents of the product verbiage from FAS web site, and... Mr. Petrucci might not be happy at having his [probably pre-approved] Fractal "pic" used for 3rd party sales, plus the inferred "we" - as in Fractal - in the ad, plus..... OTOT- I'm sure there's probably more, but the seller is clearly in legal "grey areas", if not over the line. The seller has been shutdown before (about 2 months ago) for doing exactly this with the $2500 Ultras..

Certainly have no issues with the free enterprise aspect of it, but it should not be done while masquerading as the OEM!
However, change up the ad, make it VERY clear that you are NOT Fractal, that Warranty is not transferable, etc. and if someone is dumb enough to pay the asking price.. so be it!
 
geamala said:
again you as well as others seem to wind yourselves up unnecessarily when it really doesn't affect you does it? again too much time... i'm done.
Click to expand...

Perhaps they are, but based on your posts you're winding yourself up (unnecessarily?) over their comments that... wait for it... doesn't affect you.

Maybe you all have too much time on your hands.
 
Gotta love this... :roll

Q: are you affiliated with fractal audio systems the company, or is your name just coincidental? does the warranty transfer with this unit? thanks Jun-22-11

A: Hello and thank you for your interest. Unfortunately we are not affiliated with Fractal Audio (as much as we would love to be) and the warranty is not transferable (as much as we wish it could). If this is a concern, feel free to utilize the other channels to purchase this item which provide a warranty. However, Fractal Audio Systems places an incredible amount of emphasis on the quality of the AXE-FX. It goes through rigorous testing an is evaluated and assembled by people in the United States. The likely-hood of you having any problems with these units is rare. The owner of Fractal Audio Systems is a great man. In addition, all of our feedback on eBay for these units has been positive and no one has had any issues arise. Currently with the volume of our sales being low, we are able to "check in" with our customers after awhile to see how they like the item. It's our way of providing the best customer service we possibly can. If you have any other questions, feel free to ask us. We'd love to help you out. Thank you once again for your interest and have a great day!
Click to expand...
 
s0c9 said:
I guess it depends on the definition of illegal. It is certainly violating eBay policies - which [I assume] are founded on legal briefs - and the seller's eBay name is using a trademarked company name, along with copying entire contents of the product verbiage from FAS web site, and... Mr. Petrucci might not be happy at having his [probably pre-approved] Fractal "pic" used for 3rd party sales, plus the inferred "we" - as in Fractal - in the ad, plus..... OTOT- I'm sure there's probably more, but the seller is clearly in legal "grey areas", if not over the line. The seller has been shutdown before (about 2 months ago) for doing exactly this with the $2500 Ultras..

Certainly have no issues with the free enterprise aspect of it, but it should not be done while masquerading as the OEM!
However, change up the ad, make it VERY clear that you are NOT Fractal, that Warranty is not transferable, etc. and if someone is dumb enough to pay the asking price.. so be it!
Click to expand...
Forgot about the picture of Petrucci. Great point.
 
R.D. said:


I referenced this quote from someone else in a different thread: “Those who don’t learn from history are doomed to repeat it”

BTW – w/only 64 posts you probably haven’t been around long enough to know this …, but ….

Fractal HAD the historical data to know that this would definitely happen. In fact, every product roll-out experienced significant delays and wait times once the products were released.

In the case of the MFC-101 a waiting list was announced over a year before the unit was released. And initially it was ‘hinted’ at that the waitlisters would have first crack at purchasing. It wasn’t until the wait list grew to huge numbers that the story changed and the line-jumping for a premium was introduced …. People in the top 50 of the list waited in excess of six months to get their coupon to purchase ….

That’s how long it took for demand to wane and allow the waiting list to be honored.

So yeah, I’ll stand behind my statement that 99% of the hard-feelings could’ve been avoided with some additional pre-planning, and it has nothing to do with the Cabbage Patch Kid effect that you referenced ….

That’s my story and I’m sticking to it !
Click to expand...

You just have to be kidding with this. Going after my number of posts? Ridiculously unrelated. I've been on this forum for years, but you missed that.

I'm guessing you want to just ignore that a small businessman can't afford the risk of the big pre-sale stock of supply...
Its among the biggest problem a small business faces from a cash flow stand point. Even this ignores the complication of a limited team to build the units in the first place and what taking them off making the thing you can sell means.
We saw Cliff do this a little bit, in retrospect its obvious what it was, but that time is dangerous to a business. Like kryptonite dangerous in this not very liquid economy.

The net of all this, even if you very much believed a flood of sales was coming, would you literally bet your mortgage on it or, say, the stability of the company? Do you think "a little pre-planning" explains this? Its a meaningless statement IME.
Armchair quarterbacking and nothing more. Your point has been entirely tautology so far aka "it is true b/c I say its true". Put some meat on those bones or call it a day.
 
btw, the cabbage patch effect is people paying a premium for a non life and death thing b/c it is scare and in high demand. I'd say that's a good fit for anything Fractal makes. It also alludes to the hysteria of hype that people are prone to. Also, pretty related.

you keep starting at the wait list like its the definition of evil - the point of a business is not to avoid a wait list, a lot of mature businesses have wait lists and charge extra to queue jumpers. Even tried to buy a high end watch? The wealthy and impatient pay extra b/c there are only so many approved swiss folks making watches in 2011. no one questions that the way cliff gets questioned here.
 
Last edited:
( Member since Sept ‘08 ) You’re right .., I did miss that. But that makes your comments even more surprising frankly …? You were here through the MFC release ( was it any different than this ? ), I certainly don’t think so …. Maybe different only because the entire profile of Fractal Audio as a company is that much higher, so the responses are by gross number greater ?

And I disagree with your ‘risk’ comments. I have in the past, and know many MANY other small manufacturers that actually USE a waiting list as part of their business plan. They use it to justify to a bank the needs for financing ( ie; expansion, raw materials, or just cash flow ) …. So we’re 180* out of phase on that !

Check out HRI and see how Faustine handled it with the release of their Phantom ( Attenuator ). Now, don’t mistake me as saying it’s somehow easy ( I’m not saying it’s easy at all ! ). There’s definitely growing pains ( Tim Gregorie ) knows that first hand. But he worked through it admirably.

That’s one example for you …. Can you give me an example of a “boutique” music gear manufacturer other than Fractal that’s handled their ‘wait’ list this way ? If there’s one, I don’t know about it. And your Swiss watch example only holds water because there’s a parallel to their place as the premier type of watch to own. I’ll give you that.

But then you’ll also have to acknowledge that the way certain things are handled create expectations within a certain market niche’. To me that means how other ‘gear’ manufacturers conduct themselves means more than how manufactures in other segments do …. If people are questioning Fractal maybe it’s because they’re operating with a strategy that is just that far out of step with what other companies in this market segment are doing ?

And sure I’m armchair quarterbacking, after a fashion so are you ! But I’m able to point to specific examples on how other companies ( within this market segment ) have managed roughly the same situations and not created this level of animosity. Are you ?

Oh .., and I completely understood your Cabbage Patch analogy …. But at the same time, I discount the comparison because the Cabbage Patch phenomena happened right from the initial product introduction. They had no warning prior to that what was going to happen in the marketplace. Fractal, on the other hand, has had the benefit of 3 previous product releases to see how demand spiked, and customers reacted to their response to the increased demand. So your comparison isn’t valid in my opinion.

Brings me back around to my original point. Did they learn anything from having gone through it before ? Either it worked for them and they liked it ? Or it didn’t and the approach changed in the next go around ? You tell me what’s happened so far ?
 
Interestingly enough as much of a douche-bag that he is, how did he get one in the first place? Just lucky enough to get in on the web store at the perfect time? ;)
 
R.D.

The Cabbage Patch phenom lasted longer than the initial run or it wouldn't have been so very profitable... back in 1983. They ran it into the ground by doing too many runs but it spanned more than just a holiday rush. I saw the lines myself, the ads in the paper and the rest.
You may not be old enough to recall that it happened again... the same way with beanie babies and lasted longer than one or two runs, which was when the "cabbage patch kid" expression really caught on.

And respectfully, I ask that you recognize the back peddling. Your old quote is still here "all with a little pre-planning" is = to easy or it would've been "a lot of pre-planning", no? Candidly, that was what set me off.

Last, I can think of boutique manufacturers that have handled it worse than Fractal actually, at least as far as the kids on this forum would understand it. Have you dealt with some of the small brand amp or guitar makers. Many are wonderful people but some will take half your money in advance and sit on it for months with an opaque finish date. "Quality cannot be rushed" and "pay to get on the build list" is just accepted. How does that stack up against just a wait but no commitment? I think that's easy. No risk to you, mr. consumer.

I'm not trying to get a Master's again here, just calling out that its impossible and candidly a little haughty to say its "a little pre-planning to do it differently" on the tiny data you and I have. All new and small businesses don't start in the same place and knowing that there will be demand does not solve all problems at face value. I'm just not buying the premise or that b/c someone else made some customer's happier for a music product, faster they are a better model. Not that simple. The risks and needs can be very different and likely were/are even though both are music related. The boxes have different parts and the talent pool to assemble them is likely different too.

Respectfully, out.

-P
 
I just can't understand how people get so frickin' worked up over this as if it was a cure for cancer or even worse that somehow Cliff is somehow holding out because he's either lazy, stupid, or demented.

I don't know, perhaps I'm in the minority here since I've never considered owning a Cabbage patch kid, an iPhone, a beanie baby or whatever else the must have thing was at the time. I suppose that may be why I don't see the big hairy-ass deal here to have to have it right this damn second.

And let me re-iterate that if he was to sit back and stock pile these things that you would STILL be waiting for him to build it before you could buy it. The only difference is that you wouldn't have known about it. Actually the other difference is that he would have probably been sold out of Ultras and wouldn't have any income at all since he wouldn't have any stock of anything to sell. That's a recipe for disaster.
 
@ FPFL ...,

We’re evidently looking at different things …. I definitely remember the initial RUSH to buy Cabbage Patch Dolls, and for that matter, Ty’s Beanies too. But in west MI ( and Detroit ), I certainly DO NOT remember anything more than a one day ( actually, more like one afternoon ) rush for any of the subsequent releases. Maybe it went down differently where you grew up, but not in the areas that I’m familiar with …. Either the company adjusted their supply, or the furvor died some, most likely it was a little of both !

And I’m not back peddling at all …. I still stand by my original statement.

And your comments about "other" manufacturers is purely anecdotal. I gave a specific example, you gave merely platitudes. Be specific, or I can’t take you seriously.

You can call me out on whatever you choose, but until you give me something I can examine other than your theories I stand by what I’m saying ….
 
Last edited:
shasha said:
I suppose that may be why I don't see the big hairy-ass deal here to have to have it right this damn second.
Click to expand...

Not sure if that was directed to me or not, but if it was ..., then you've totally missed the point I was trying to make. If it wasn't, then accept my apology and ignore me ! TX -
 
"4 out of 5 dentists surveyed recommend Colgate toothpaste". False advertising? Misleading? Lies? Grey Area?
It's all hype to sell a product and make money. What's the problem? America is the worldwide leader of this. He's also smart enough to add fine print disclaimers.
This guy is just using "grey area methods" to sell a product and make a buck without holding a gun to anyones head or without running a ponzi scheme. More power to him.
As American as apple pie!!
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom