FEAR FACTORY's Demanufacture sound in here!

[DawnOfIniquity]

That video brings back some memories! I got my 1st 7 string back in '97, and the seventh heaven video came with it (on VHS)! I went through quite a few Marshall heads back then, always wondering why mine didn't sound like Dino's from the video. I didn't know anything about mods and noise gates back then.

 

[Trem]

the clip sounds incredibly exact, nice job man, i'll have to dl and check it out.

 

[Sidivan]

Have you guys seen this yet? It's from the last part of the Ibanez 7th Heaven video. Dino's starts playing at about 1:33. You get to here his legendary Marshall head in action! God it sounds great even just mic'd up directly for a video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOLJLcYYsQM

1:38 "A lot of riffs that I play are really syncopated with the drums."

I do not think that means what you think it means.

 

[Tone_Freak]

He's using the Fixed Edge bridges on his guitars now. They sort of look like floating tremolos, but they are actually bridges fixed directly to the body with no routing for springs.

Are you talking about like the ones on the slipknot MTMs. Dino only uses that bridge for 8 strings. But not for his 7s. He still has the Floyd Rose 7 or some FR licenced 7 string bridge (prolly an edge but the FR licenced Edge) with a block at the back for his 7s. He always has been doing that for as long as I can remember. Look at the pic i attached - new guitar and hes still doing the same thing. That is not the same bridge you are referring to. This is either an FR or Ibanez FR that goes to the back through the massive hole in the guitar.

The shitty thing is...they ONLY make the 7 string version for Dino. I know other Ibanez endorsees can't even get them.

I know I had the exact same bridge in the exact same configuration on my previous 7 string. So I am not sure what you are referring to. Its just a stripped down floyd rose without the springs at the back.

Back in Fear Factory days though, he did indeed just have them blocked, probably just a big chunk of wood.

Its actually a chunk of brass.

It's all worth it for locked strings that don't go out of tune though. Or if you actually use the whammy bar like I do.

It is never worth routing a hole or that big through your guitar since it sucks a massive portion of the tone out of your guitar, not to mention one which takes for ever to globally change the tuning of to even a half or whole step down or back up. (when in floating mode) - and forget about spontaneously having to change your tuning anything past a whole step if jamming with a band in whey different tuning - that requires a long and irritating setup.

I beat the crap out of my whammy bar all day. But it is not part of a floyd rose system. All my 3 Ibanez's have $400 dollar kahler bridges in them, and my 4th guitar is a Jeff Hanneman JH 600 - also with a Kahler.

Even though many of my favorite guitar players who I grew up listening to religiously use a floyd, I cannot use such an impossibly irrational system in any guitar. I prefer the same systems as Kerry King and Jeff Hanneman. Because not even the best floyd roses stay in tune after whaling away on the whammy bar. Dimebag had the highest end floyds in his instruments and his techs always complained about tuning and intonation issues after his solo whammy displays which he went off on by himself in many shows as well as during damage plan. .

As I said, I would never touch a Floyd Rose or any FR licence bridge not even with a ten foot pole. Not to mention all the horrid spring noise that you have to find ways to dampen - which then could potentially mess with tuning by about 5 cents... depending on what dampening materials you choose to use.

I can't wait till the new Kahler 2 system comes out - apparently there has been 10 years worth of research and engineering that has gone into it, and its coming out in 2011. But even the normal current Kahlers are light years beyond any FLoyd Rose.

 

[DawnOfIniquity]

Are you talking about like the ones on the slipknot MTMs. Dino only uses that bridge for 8 strings. But not for his 7s. He still has the Floyd Rose 7 or some FR licenced 7 string bridge (prolly an edge but the FR licenced Edge) with a block at the back for his 7s. He always has been doing that for as long as I can remember. Look at the pic i attached - new guitar and hes still doing the same thing. That is not the same bridge you are referring to. This is either an FR or Ibanez FR that goes to the back through the massive hole in the guitar.

No, he has had the FIXED EDGE bridge like on the MTMs custom made in a 7 string version. Check this link for a picture: http://7-string.com/pix/cache/image...Ibanez_Dino_Cazares_LA_Custom_Cazares_7_4.jpg

They must have stopped custom making them for him since he has a regular blocked Lo Pro on his new Demanufacture guitar you posted.

It is never worth routing a hole or that big through your guitar since it sucks a massive portion of the tone out of your guitar

You are trying to pass off your opinion as fact. I personally love the Ibanez Lo Pro tremolo system. Mine stays in tune perfectly for a LONG time. There are a lot of tricks to making them play great that you probably don't know about (check ibanezrules.com for details). Also the "tone loss" is subjective. It does take away a little bit of lows and low mids from your tone and add more high mids and highs. In my case, I like that. It makes the guitar cut through better and stay tighter when using high gain.

You love to argue don't you?

 

[DawnOfIniquity]

Have you guys seen this yet? It's from the last part of the Ibanez 7th Heaven video. Dino's starts playing at about 1:33. You get to here his legendary Marshall head in action! God it sounds great even just mic'd up directly for a video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOLJLcYYsQM

1:38 "A lot of riffs that I play are really syncopated with the drums."

I do not think that means what you think it means.

I think it means exactly what he said: the double bass drum usually follows the guitar rhythm exactly (syncopated). What do you think it means?

 

[Tone_Freak]

No, he has had the FIXED EDGE bridge like on the MTMs custom made in a 7 string version.

They must have stopped custom making them for him since he has a regular blocked Lo Pro on his new Demanufacture guitar you posted.

Uhh, I am not sure whos guitar that is. lol. But even if it is then the Edge fixed on 7s must be a new thing he is doing. - probabily because it allows more of the mid resonance of the wood tone to cut through with alot more punch.

You are trying to pass off your opinion as fact. I personally love the Ibanez Lo Pro tremolo system. Mine stays in tune perfectly for a LONG time. There are a lot of tricks to making them play great that you probably don't know about (check ibanezrules.com for details). Also the "tone loss" is subjective. It does take away a little bit of lows and low mids from your tone and add more high mids and highs. In my case, I like that. It makes the guitar cut through better and stay tighter when using high gain.

Ya I checked that tech info out. Yikes!

The more of the wood tone resonating thing is not my opinion.

Im simply talking about the tone of the wood. Anyone can filter out lows and "flub" before the input, all guitars produce that - regardless of bridge - but doing that with either a kahler or fixed bridge where the strings have more of a closer link to the body of the guitar via a bridge with more direct body coverage - allows a very good sounding frequency range of some choice of the wood tone to resonate through for punchier mids. So you filter out low flub part of the wood tone's frequency if you want tight punch and still let the tone of the guitar come through. So actually the mids after this sort of filtering cut through more defined and add character. All you do is just make sure you take out the flub either with an eq or filter before the input. A fixed wah on low intensity works too. But a portion of the wood tone amazingly rings through tight.

And this is probabily why Dino has started to use the edge fixed as you are claiming with a picture posted of a guitar claimed to be Dino's. Because the edge fixed have more contact with the body of the guitar, at least alot more than egdes - which even if blocked - have to be layed up against a brass piece which dislocates it from the wood significantly - although still better tone than a full floating setup.

But the belief that a floyd has more highs than a Kahler is a myth. If you want extremely brilliant highs, you can change your rollers to stainless steel ones on the kahler and you'll get a ton more brilliance.

You love to argue don't you?

Actually I despise it. I prefer debating civilized. Its unfortunate if anyone would not percieve it that way.

 

[Sidivan]

Have you guys seen this yet? It's from the last part of the Ibanez 7th Heaven video. Dino's starts playing at about 1:33. You get to here his legendary Marshall head in action! God it sounds great even just mic'd up directly for a video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOLJLcYYsQM

1:38 "A lot of riffs that I play are really syncopated with the drums."

I do not think that means what you think it means.

I think it means exactly what he said: the double bass drum usually follows the guitar rhythm exactly (syncopated). What do you think it means?

That's my point exactly. Syncopation has nothing to do whether you're "sync'd up" with the bass drum. Syncopation means there are accents on the riff where they are not expected. A 1-drop reggae beat, for instance, is a syncopated rhythm.

 

[DawnOfIniquity]

No, he has had the FIXED EDGE bridge like on the MTMs custom made in a 7 string version.

They must have stopped custom making them for him since he has a regular blocked Lo Pro on his new Demanufacture guitar you posted.

Uhh, I am not sure whos guitar that is. lol. But even if it is then the Edge fixed on 7s must be a new thing he is doing. - probabily because it allows more of the mid resonance of the wood tone to cut through with alot more punch.

What do you mean you don't know who's guitar that is? I told you it was Dino's, you don't believe me? Here is a link of the page it came from. It has pictures of him using it.

http://7-string.com/7.pl?direct=7-String_Guitars/Ibanez_Dino_Cazares_LACS_Cazares_7

He's been using the fixed edge 7's for awhile, but obviously Ibanez is not making those bridges for him anymore. Like I said they won't even make them for other Ibanez endorsees who wanted them (Bulb).

The more of the wood tone resonating thing is not my opinion.

It's your opinion that it doesn't sound as good.

I have 2 Ibanez RG seven strings, both basswood. One has a Lo Pro tremolo, the other has a fixed bridge. I prefer the tone of the tremolo equipped guitar, less wood or not. I recognize it as my opinion however. You should do the same.

 

[DawnOfIniquity]

That's my point exactly. Syncopation has nothing to do whether you're "sync'd up" with the bass drum. Syncopation means there are accents on the riff where they are not expected. A 1-drop reggae beat, for instance, is a syncopated rhythm.

Yeah, that's the correct definition of syncopation, but a lot of people use it (perhaps incorrectly), as two instruments following each other closely. That's most likely what he meant.

 

[animal]

[
No, he has had the FIXED EDGE bridge like on the MTMs custom made in a 7 string version. Check this link for a picture: http://7-string.com/pix/cache/image...Ibanez_Dino_Cazares_LA_Custom_Cazares_7_4.jpg

They must have stopped custom making them for him since he has a regular blocked Lo Pro on his new Demanufacture guitar you posted.

yup thats the one I was talking about, I think he was using this somewhere after obsolete

I've always love the feel of those trems on the palm , much more than the typical les paul fixed bridge but I don't like the floating

I remember as well one of his guitars wasn't fixed cause he was bouncing on the trem to the "aye aye aye aye" chant that they do live in martyr

 

[DawnOfIniquity]

Yeah the original Lo Pro Edge feels great on the palm during palm muting. It's smooth without any annoying parts sticking up and grinding into your palm. When they are set up right, they play amazing and stay and in tune great too.

I mean look at Steve Vai...if he can do all those ridiculous whammy bar antics and still stay in tune, you know it's good!

 

[animal]

Yeah the original Lo Pro Edge feels great on the palm during palm muting. It's smooth without any annoying parts sticking up and grinding into your palm. When they are set up right, they play amazing and stay and in tune great too.

I mean look at Steve Vai...if he can do all those ridiculous whammy bar antics and still stay in tune, you know it's good!

I never had any tuning probs with mine and i did some pretty extreme shit!

the tremol-no is a great thing to have with the lo pros......check them out if you havent seen them
http://www.tremol-no.com/

 

[Tone_Freak]

Yeah the original Lo Pro Edge feels great on the palm during palm muting. It's smooth without any annoying parts sticking up and grinding into your palm. When they are set up right, they play amazing and stay and in tune great too.

I mean look at Steve Vai...if he can do all those ridiculous whammy bar antics and still stay in tune, you know it's good!

I never had any tuning probs with mine and i did some pretty extreme shit!

the tremol-no is a great thing to have with the lo pros......check them out if you havent seen them
http://www.tremol-no.com/

That tremol-no device reduces flutter time significantly.

Try palm muting with a bit more pressure on a floating bridge. :lol:

 

[Tone_Freak]

What do you mean you don't know who's guitar that is? I told you it was Dino's, you don't believe me? Here is a link of the page it came from. It has pictures of him using it.

So he uses both. Whooopie dooo!

He's been using the fixed edge 7's for awhile, but obviously Ibanez is not making those bridges for him anymore. Like I said they won't even make them for other Ibanez endorsees who wanted them (Bulb).

Then he still uses full blocked FR licences in addition to the new fixed edge ones. What do you think he is doing, throwing all his previous guitars in the garbage? :lol:

And these new fixed edge ones grant my point even further about the need for more wood tone to resonate as there is more means of transferring the bodies' tone to cut through more. So in the end my main point is granted.

It's your opinion that it doesn't sound as good.

Actually I think the bridges with the most body transferring are a bit too much of the wood tone, and the floating bridges don't transfer enough. The edge fixed - seems more ideal, but for whammy bridges, I prefer the exact tone transfer of a Kahler which is perfectly in between. Not too much and not too little. As the saddles are right up against the raisers all part of the bridge which has massive contact and coverage on the body.

I'll have to look into the edge fixed again, I had one on my MTM 2 but the next day it came off and on went a kahler.

I have 2 Ibanez RG seven strings, both basswood. One has a Lo Pro tremolo, the other has a fixed bridge. I prefer the tone of the tremolo equipped guitar, less wood or not. I recognize it as my opinion however. You should do the same.

Sure, I have an opinion that the tone of a Kahler bridge is light years ahead of all of the above.

 

[DawnOfIniquity]

What do you mean you don't know who's guitar that is? I told you it was Dino's, you don't believe me? Here is a link of the page it came from. It has pictures of him using it.

So he uses both. Whooopie dooo!

You are so sure that I am wrong about the fixed edge 7's existence, and when I show you the evidence you come back with this very mature response...great job! :lol:

He's been using the fixed edge 7's for awhile, but obviously Ibanez is not making those bridges for him anymore. Like I said they won't even make them for other Ibanez endorsees who wanted them (Bulb).

Then he still uses full blocked FR licences in addition to the new fixed edge ones. What do you think he is doing, throwing all his previous guitars in the garbage? :lol:

What are you even talking about? I never implied he is throwing away his previous guitars. That doesn't even make sense...the Demanufacture guitar you posted shows he is using the old blocked tremolos again. Of course he is still using his old guitars. :roll:

And these new fixed edge ones grant my point even further about the need for more wood tone to resonate as there is more means of transferring the bodies' tone to cut through more. So in the end my main point is granted.

No it doesn't. It looks like Ibanez and Dino stopped using them. If anything it shows evidence of the exact opposite. Dino either liked the old "tone sucking" ones better, or the difference was negligible enough for them to stop making them and go back to the old way.

 

[fremen]

so we are now discussing the sound difference between a fly's fart after drinking O+ blood and O- blood. Epic thread is epic.

:mrgreen:

 

[aaronv84]

hey dave hows the obsolete tone coming??

 

[Tone_Freak]

You are so sure that I am wrong about the fixed edge 7's existence, and when I show you the evidence you come back with this very mature response...great job! :lol:

I always knew it existed. I even had one. I already knew Dino used them on 8's. I never saw him live with a fixed edge on a 7. Maybe its just one of his practice guitars. I see nothing of any benefit for you to go on about this in the manner which you are proceeding.

What are you even talking about? I never implied he is throwing away his previous guitars. That doesn't even make sense...the Demanufacture guitar you posted shows he is using the old blocked tremolos again. Of course he is still using his old guitars.

The point i was trying to make was that the guitar I posted is still the main setup for 7's, regardless if I believe the other ones sound different (but perhaps still a bit too much body fattness ringing through even for my preference), so my point was that Kahlers have the best balance of about half that body tone still ringing through - just enough, which is why it might interest Dino to try one out in fixed mode if he is going back and forth to home in on his sweetspot. A kahler could be the sweetspot for him and he might not even be aware!

And it is also very convenient - seeing as how the Kahler to fixed adjustment can be done in a second with an allen key, unlike the massive and long surgery required to turn an FR into fixed mode.

No it doesn't. It looks like Ibanez and Dino stopped using them. If anything it shows evidence of the exact opposite. Dino either liked the old "tone sucking" ones better, or the difference was negligible enough for them to stop making them and go back to the old way.

If you believe Ibanez no longer makes the fixed edge bridges, then you are severely misinformed. And the evidence is the fixed edge bridges do allow a transfer of more of the bodies tone through.

Whether Dino likes the older setup, or the newer one is irrelevant to the point of how these bridges actually sound. And even if Dino liked the older ones better - that alone has not caused Ibanez to stop Ibanez Fixed bridges as you mistakenly believe.

And just to clarify - a blocked FR is not as tone sucking as a floating FR as there is much more of a direct and larger surface area contact with the solid piece. A floating one is extremely detached for the most part from the body and extremely tone sucking. So thats the type of FRs I was referring to as tone-sucking, not Dinos. The way Dino blocks it actually sounds ok.

 

[DawnOfIniquity]

If you believe Ibanez no longer makes the fixed edge bridges, then you are severely misinformed.

I know they still make fixed edge bridges for 6 and 8 strings. I meant that they stopped making the custom 7 string ones. As far as I know, Dino is the only guitarist they made them for, and they are not available to the public. I know because I called Ibanez a couple years back to try to get one.

Anyways, just drop it. I think we got all the useful info we could possibly get on the subject of Dino's Marshall amp. Now we are just bickering about unrelated shit.