FEAR FACTORY's Demanufacture sound in here!

I could be wrong, but I recall an interview from the times of yore... At one point, his amp was stolen while on tour. Dino went all over whatever town he was in and played a crapload of amps to find one that he liked. He ended up choosing a flextone III because it was "the fastest amp I've ever heard". That's when he started endorsing Line 6. I *thought* that was between Demanufacture and Obsolete.

Edit: I couldn't find the original article from when it happened, but here's a much later one where he talks about it happening in 1999. I guess that was on the Obsolete tour before Digimortal came out. http://www.sevenstring.org/forum/artist ... zares.html
 
animal said:
I don't know where you got the variac info from but dinos amp never had that ....I've even seen some of the clones he got done years ago on ebay and they didn't have anything like that on them here was a guy that got one
http://www.jemsite.com/forums/f30/i-jus ... -9078.html

It is fact that none of the clones were like the original. Otherwise Dino would not have sold them away. He considered the original a lost member of the band.

I am getting the variac info straight from the sound off obsolete.. That wreaks of a lowered amp operating voltage. it can be simulated in Guitar Rig 4 by lowering the variac knob on the 800 amp after hitting the input with bandpass Q filter or frown shaped EQ. Its just too bad that GR4 sounds very low quality and has too much artificial mids.

the only difference (which I have said a few times sorry to be broken record!) was switching to 7 string ibanez guitars and EMG 707s and downtuning.....different producer and maybe he did EQ the amp differently
for cabs I *thought* dino used mesa cabs
over and out till I post the interviews :lol:

You are forgetting the addition of additional gain stage - aside from the studio differences in processing this extra gain mod is the key difference on obsolete. Its a very unique type of distortion which had more definition than Demanufacture.. but too bad the mid overtones were not as big.

Demanufacture just sounded like that same 800 amp prior to the gain stage mod but perhaps with a distortion pedal before it, because thats what it sort of sounded like on Demanufacture, but the DM mids were fantastic.

The mod before Demanufacture was a different mod - i forget what it was, but i know for certain that it was not the extra gain mod like for Obsolete.
 
animal said:
hmm keep having to relogin to post :S

another guy did a thread on the obsolete tone but it kinda derailed :oops:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=21552

as far as I know the only difference between his setup was he switched from 6 string esp with EMG 81s (as seen in replica video) to the ibanez 7 strings with the 707 pickup

also he tuned down to A for some (if not all?) of the songs
I didnt like his tone near as much

keen to try the patch with an 81....big part of his sound ...many thanks to the OP!

Actually, for the recording of Obsolete, I think he was still using a Universe with DiMarzio Blaze pickups. IIRC, the custom baritones and 707s didn't come until a bit later.
 
Tom said:
animal said:
hmm keep having to relogin to post :S

another guy did a thread on the obsolete tone but it kinda derailed :oops:

viewtopic.php?f=25&t=21552

as far as I know the only difference between his setup was he switched from 6 string esp with EMG 81s (as seen in replica video) to the ibanez 7 strings with the 707 pickup

also he tuned down to A for some (if not all?) of the songs
I didnt like his tone near as much

keen to try the patch with an 81....big part of his sound ...many thanks to the OP!

Actually, for the recording of Obsolete, I think he was still using a Universe with DiMarzio Blaze pickups. IIRC, the custom baritones and 707s didn't come until a bit later.

Obsolete
no variacs or additional mods
http://www.pertout.com/FearFactory.htm

Tell me about your set-up. How do you get your most unique heavy-duty distortion sound?

DC: “Mine, it’s pretty simple. I created and developed the sound over the years, just years of experimenting with different amplifiers, different pedals and different modifications, till finally I found this modification that worked really well with what I wanted to do. I had a pre-amp built inside a Marshall JC-800 head, and I really liked the JC-800 head because it had this traditional Marshall sound that I liked. Like if you turn up to ten, you get this really full crunch. But you see, I didn’t wanna have to turn up to ten to get the sound, I wanted to turn up to two and still have the same sound, so I can practice in my house (chuckles). So I had this guy build my head for me, and it sounded amazing. So now I needed the right guitar, I went through all these guitars, all these pickups and so on, and so on. And now it’s evolved to a seven-string guitar, and the whole guitar is tuned down to A (Dino then questions my musical understanding). Every string is not A!”

Yeah I know, I’m a keyboard-player, but I’m not that stupid.

DC: “(Laughs) And then I had this pickup specially built for me, because it had certain frequencies that I wanted. EMG is the name of the company, and they made a pickup called the ‘81’, which is an active pickup. But because it was a seven-string it had an extra coil, so you had to put extra wire on it, and in doing that it started to sound thin, so when they made the pickup for me, I got an ‘81’ and an ‘85’, and we put them both together. We made one pickup out of it, and that’s kind of what created my sound. It had the warmth and the thickness of the ‘85’, and it had the top-end frequencies that I wanted, the top end crunch basically, from the ‘81’. So the combination of the two worked really well for me, and that’s what kind of like developed my sound to now.”
 
animal said:
Tom said:
Obsolete
no variacs or additional mods
http://www.pertout.com/FearFactory.htm


LOL. Just because he doesnt state the variac mod does not mean it is not there. Dino doesn't reveal any of his tone secrets.

But I know the mod, I had my KK amp slightly modded, not only for an FX loop, but also in Variac - and it is closer to the obsolete tone when on the Mesa Cab and driven by the guitar into filter into amp.

You are not guaranteed to get all information from interviews, only partial info. You need to have the mods done yourself.

Just like Kerry King, he tells people about his basic setup, but he never discloses the values of the electronics in his actual guitar.

Dino will only tell you surface level info on his gear, but nothing that would share any of his tone secrets. Its in his personality. No wonder he only said its just a preamp modded for more gain in so many interviews... uhh buddy, do you know how many more variables than that it is to actually modify the guts of an amp? You are working with tons of values. Its not as simple as you are saying.

Anyways, if anyone is still trying an obsolete clone, try lowering the biasing on the tubes a bit and see what that does. My Axe arrives next week, or possibly sooner, depending on how much crack the border customs people are smoking, or if there is anything stuck up their ass to delay my Ultra.
 
all the interviews are here
I did have a couple more but cant find them but all along the same lines

states where he had other 800's done with the same mod but they never sounded the same as his main amp (these were the ones on ebay)

hope it clears up some things although I doubt it will for some cases ;)

http://img18.imageshack.us/i/p1010118k0.jpg/
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4091/p1010117dd.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/i/p1010116x.jpg/
http://img688.imageshack.us/i/p1010115i.jpg/
http://img593.imageshack.us/i/p10101140.jpg/
http://img148.imageshack.us/i/p1010113r.jpg/
http://img600.imageshack.us/i/p1010113d.jpg/
 
Look on the back cover of the Obsolete booklet and you will see the additional Bradshaw mod. Which was modded even further for more preamp gain. I also have every reason to believe there were all sorts of mods in the Bradshaw LA custom shop.

And its not very helpful when in one interview he says hes using mesa cabs and the other he says its marshall 1960 cabs. LOL! Same album era too.
 
dave2000, could you post the amp settings and eq's you used for the patch? I have a 5150/recto cab/sm57 in my office currently and i would like to attempt to recreate what you recorded as an experiment of live vs axe-fx etc.
 
animal said:
all the interviews are here
I did have a couple more but cant find them but all along the same lines

states where he had other 800's done with the same mod but they never sounded the same as his main amp (these were the ones on ebay)

hope it clears up some things although I doubt it will for some cases ;)

http://img18.imageshack.us/i/p1010118k0.jpg/
http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/4091/p1010117dd.jpg
http://img263.imageshack.us/i/p1010116x.jpg/
http://img688.imageshack.us/i/p1010115i.jpg/
http://img593.imageshack.us/i/p10101140.jpg/
http://img148.imageshack.us/i/p1010113r.jpg/
http://img600.imageshack.us/i/p1010113d.jpg/

Thank you so much for posting all those great interviews! Damn, I could have used all that info back in like '96 when I was obsessed with the Demanufacture tone! Would you be able to post the whole "Fear Factory Lesson?" Was that from Guitar World?
 
Tone_Freak said:
animal said:
Tom said:
Obsolete
no variacs or additional mods
http://www.pertout.com/FearFactory.htm


LOL. Just because he doesnt state the variac mod does not mean it is not there. Dino doesn't reveal any of his tone secrets.

But I know the mod, I had my KK amp slightly modded, not only for an FX loop, but also in Variac - and it is closer to the obsolete tone when on the Mesa Cab and driven by the guitar into filter into amp.

You are not guaranteed to get all information from interviews, only partial info. You need to have the mods done yourself.

Just like Kerry King, he tells people about his basic setup, but he never discloses the values of the electronics in his actual guitar.

Dino will only tell you surface level info on his gear, but nothing that would share any of his tone secrets. Its in his personality. No wonder he only said its just a preamp modded for more gain in so many interviews... uhh buddy, do you know how many more variables than that it is to actually modify the guts of an amp? You are working with tons of values. Its not as simple as you are saying.

Anyways, if anyone is still trying an obsolete clone, try lowering the biasing on the tubes a bit and see what that does. My Axe arrives next week, or possibly sooner, depending on how much crack the border customs people are smoking, or if there is anything stuck up their ass to delay my Ultra.

I don't understand where you are getting this variac thing from? You think he is using it because you think you can hear it on the produced Obsolete album, or am I missing something? Even if he is using one, I doubt it would make that much of a difference. I have heard amp clips of marshalls with and without variacs back to back (Metroamp.com I believe), and if I remember correctly, all the variac did was make it sound slightly colder and spongier. It was very slight and I'm sure you could easily get the same sound and more by changing the damping, sag, bias voltage, and B+ parameters.

And it seems to me that Dino pretty much gave away ALL his tonal secrets in those interviews: his picks, strings, guitars, pickups, amp, cabinet, and speakers. I really don't think he knew anymore about his amp mods other than it being a big, ugly, badly soldered preamp circuit, otherwise he would have been able to get another JCM 800 modded to sound the same after it was stolen.

And I'm just going to guess here, but I bet the mod was just a boost (either a cleaner FET boost or a TS808-type overdrive) with some filtering going on to remove flubby bass before it hit the preamp circuit. I mean he only paid $80-100, so I doubt he had any extra preamp tubes installed or anything else that required serious modifications of the circuit board.
 
DawnOfIniquity said:
[

Thank you so much for posting all those great interviews! Damn, I could have used all that info back in like '96 when I was obsessed with the Demanufacture tone! Would you be able to post the whole "Fear Factory Lesson?" Was that from Guitar World?


yeah no problem! will do soon
I have some more that i havent been able to find yet
I think Dino had a column in guitar world for a bit as well




DawnOfIniquity said:
[

I don't understand where you are getting this variac thing from? You think he is using it because you think you can hear it on the produced Obsolete album, or am I missing something? Even if he is using one, I doubt it would make that much of a difference. I have heard amp clips of marshalls with and without variacs back to back (Metroamp.com I believe), and if I remember correctly, all the variac did was make it sound slightly colder and spongier. It was very slight and I'm sure you could easily get the same sound and more by changing the damping, sag, bias voltage, and B+ parameters.

And it seems to me that Dino pretty much gave away ALL his tonal secrets in those interviews: his picks, strings, guitars, pickups, amp, cabinet, and speakers. I really don't think he knew anymore about his amp mods other than it being a big, ugly, badly soldered preamp circuit, otherwise he would have been able to get another JCM 800 modded to sound the same after it was stolen.

And I'm just going to guess here, but I bet the mod was just a boost (either a cleaner FET boost or a TS808-type overdrive) with some filtering going on to remove flubby bass before it hit the preamp circuit. I mean he only paid $80-100, so I doubt he had any extra preamp tubes installed or anything else that required serious modifications of the circuit board.

there is no variac or anything like that :roll: there may have been an effects loop added but thats it!
Dinos story does change a little but why would anyone take the 'perfect' head and do more mods to it? especially from another person who didnt even touch the original amp! why wouldnt he do it on one of the clones as a test than potientially ruin his no1 amp??!?

I'm not going to debate this anymore with TF its pointless ...its one thing to read something or just 'hear' it and imagine its on an album


SOANM = modded marshall, 6 string, not 100% sure if Dino was using EMGS but pretty sure he was

Demanufature= modded marshall, 6 string ESP + EMGS he mentions turning up the mids
not to mention colin richardson producing! (carcass-heartwork,machine head BME! some of the best guitar tones in heavy music)

Obsolete= modded marshall 7 string EMG 707 plus tuned down to A he mentions change in sound from that guitar, less mids plus Rhys producing
 
animal said:
yeah no problem! will do soon
I have some more that i havent been able to find yet
I think Dino had a column in guitar world for a bit as well

Cool, I'm looking forward to it!

Also, I had no idea the same producer of Demanufacture did Heartwork. That's the other guitar tone I was really into back in that mid 90's era. That guy knew how to get some of the best metal tones ever recorded!
 
DawnOfIniquity said:
animal said:
yeah no problem! will do soon
I have some more that i havent been able to find yet
I think Dino had a column in guitar world for a bit as well

Cool, I'm looking forward to it!

Also, I had no idea the same producer of Demanufacture did Heartwork. That's the other guitar tone I was really into back in that mid 90's era. That guy knew how to get some of the best metal tones ever recorded!
Colin Richardson is da' Man! He did some friends of mine CD years ago, and I have the original Pro Tools sessions of each tune. Pretty cool watching how he rides the faders and his choices of plugins. (Of course he had awesome outboard gear too). :D



:geek: M :ugeek:
 
to the guys looking for eq info , just upload the patch on your axe-edit and look
thats the best way as there is eq on the amp , drive & filters as well

I'll post up the lesson tomorrow as well as the back cover of obsolete which makes zero mention of any bradshaw mod :roll: (at least the cd I have lol)

still aint had a chance to try the patch yet :shock:
 
animal said:
I don't understand where you are getting this variac thing from? You think he is using it because you think you can hear it on the produced Obsolete album, or am I missing something?

Its basic synthesis theory. I am so close to the obsolete tone with a 5150 - after advanced tweaking. I am brutally close, and the only possible parameter that can alter the waveform to the exact definition is a variac. Its just a tiny little tweak and the Axe needs it badly. The amp is already so tight with my other mods and pre-input filtering that there is nothing else concievable other than a variac that can do the obsolete mod.

Even if he is using one, I doubt it would make that much of a difference.

Its a difference in gain definition. Quite noticeable with no variac mod.

I have heard amp clips of marshalls with and without variacs back to back (Metroamp.com I believe), and if I remember correctly, all the variac did was make it sound slightly colder and spongier. It was very slight and I'm sure you could easily get the same sound and more by changing the damping, sag, bias voltage, and B+ parameters.


I tried all of it. All of it helps a bit in subtle ways, but its mostly to take out flub on the low end. And that is also done prior to the amp with filters. But in the Axe FX I am awfully close with a 5150 and that last variac mod its all thats needed. And I have been able to come close without Don Petersens EQ staging as i never got the ptch off him yet. But Now i need his patch for the matched impulsing. And the final step will be the variac. Its only a tsmall adjustment from like 12 o'clock to prolly 10:30.

And it seems to me that Dino pretty much gave away ALL his tonal secrets in those interviews: his picks, strings, guitars, pickups, amp, cabinet, and speakers. I really don't think he knew anymore about his amp mods other than it being a big, ugly, badly soldered preamp circuit, otherwise he would have been able to get another JCM 800 modded to sound the same after it was stolen.

sorry, its not in his character. Also, as you saw he switched his cab story.

And I'm just going to guess here, but I bet the mod was just a boost (either a cleaner FET boost or a TS808-type overdrive) with some filtering going on to remove flubby bass before it hit the preamp circuit.

If you are honestly claiming he got that distortion from a drive style pedal then you have a severe misconception and misunderstanding about the nature of the tube preamp gain and crunch he had going on with the addition of another one or two 12AX7 gain stages.

I mean he only paid $80-100, so I doubt he had any extra preamp tubes installed or anything else that required serious modifications of the circuit board.

He only paid that amount for the first mod. But not the Bradshaw one as per the back of the Obsolete booklet. The bradshaw one was the massive mod. Are you even reading that booklet? The mod was so huge and took so long that it even made it to the obsolete booklet! LOL. It is common knowledge that there was millions of mods to that amp for obsolete and forward until it was stolen - so therefore you are the first person ever to have a new belief about that amp. And an incomplete belief rejecting all the clear evidence.

there is no variac or anything like that :roll: there may have been an effects loop added but thats it!

I know basic tone sculpting, and even with a 5150 or high gain amp. that has to be lowered. Or perhaps the amp already came with a lower operating voltage. But the fact remains that the setting was not at equilibrium. it was lower than a normal amp. I already know this stuff. You think I am making it up? I learned about it from an amp modder who told me the effect of what a slight lowering does to the gain definition, and he did it to my KK 800 head and now its an exact replica of the Cazares head. Since you clearly have no idea how a variac operates on distortion, it is a waste of time trying to reason with you as you are clearly bigoted towards rejecting an idea which I can prove has that effect on the sound. You reject the concept with no experience with the mod and you behave this way based on no reason.

Dinos story does change a little but why would anyone take the 'perfect' head and do more mods to it?

It wasn't perfect, it was perferct after the final Bradshaw mod. Clearly you have not researched this, and you continue to fail to open the back of the obsolete booklet, rejecting that clear evidence available in any record store.

especially from another person who didnt even touch the original amp! why wouldnt he do it on one of the clones as a test than potientially ruin his no1 amp??!?

It became his no. 1 amp at the recording of obsolete after the final mod to bring it to perfection.

I'm not going to debate this anymore with TF its pointless ...its one thing to read something or just 'hear' it and imagine its on an album.

Reading it in the obsolete booklet is not imagining it. Therefore you are the first to make up an incomplete story about that amp as if you are living before the obsolete modification to it. I have not seen a bigger display of arrogance on the entire internet to such an unambiguous fact, even proven for you in the actual album - making your position doubly hilarious.

Obsolete= modded marshall 7 string EMG 707 plus tuned down to A he mentions change in sound from that guitar, less mids plus Rhys producing

Dont forget to mention the Custom Electronics Bradshaw shop as the mod for that album to that amp in the Obsolete booklet. How many times do you want that repeated for you?
 
Tone_Freak said:
He only paid that amount for the first mod. But not the Bradshaw one as per the back of the Obsolete booklet. The bradshaw one was the massive mod. Are you even reading that booklet? The mod was so huge and took so long that it even made it to the obsolete booklet! LOL. It is common knowledge that there was millions of mods to that amp for obsolete and forward until it was stolen - so therefore you are the first person ever to have a new belief about that amp. And an incomplete belief rejecting all the clear evidence.
.

http://img839.imageshack.us/i/booki.jpg/
zero mention of this mod buddy have a look for yourself , the rest of the booklet is all lyrics
and since its apparently common knowledge...i've post about 4 interviews now ...surely you can find one piece of information online to prove us all wrong but I guess Dino hid the info down in Area 51

btw people occasionally switch cabs and picks strings things like this...this isnt a big consipracy

I'm an electrician BTW which makes me understand a variac quite well :lol:




here is the full interview/lesson as well
http://img574.imageshack.us/i/33960356.jpg/
http://img338.imageshack.us/i/30872417.jpg/
http://img202.imageshack.us/i/29210147.jpg/
 
animal said:
and since its apparently common knowledge...i've post about 4 interviews now ...surely you can find one piece of information online to prove us all wrong but I guess Dino hid the info down in Area 51

Online there is tons of sources. Here is one link. Its right in the picture, right below the cabs is the stated info - scanned from a guitar magazine. The only error in this picture is in the spelling on Custom Audio Electronics as they wrote "Custon" instead of "Custom".

http://guitargeek.com/rigview/534/

What part about that do you not understand? I even gave Custom Audio Electronics a telephone ring a year back and spoke to Bob directly. He corroborated the fact that his company did in fact do extensive work on the preamp section of that amp and was also modded for a tube based effects loop. The phone number is available on the Custom Audio page. Bob would be happy to answer any questions anyone might have about the very extensive and very complicated preamp mod done to the Cazares amp you speak of as heard on obsolete.

So according to your unproven assertions, now even the corroborating Bob Bradshaw would have to be classified as a liar, in addition to this corroborating common internet knowledge with the scanned setup of dino from a guitar magazine inserted into Guitar Geeks. So now I guess you are also going to conclude that this is also wrong based on your faulty premise.

So then the only other alternative here is that I guess you would want me to believe that the Guitar Geeks website happened to just guess out of thin air that the amp was taken in to that shop to be modded - somehow magically matching my exact same guess? :lol:

Those are some odds you have there of someone guessing the same thing you believe I happened to make up out of thin air. I guess with your reasoning anything is possible. With your reasoning and logic, I guess its also possible that a 747 plane crash would somehow re-assemble itself into a car.

Sorry, but that simply does not work here, nor anywhere else in the real world.

btw people occasionally switch cabs and picks strings things like this...this isnt a big consipracy

Wow you really are something, so now the change in the color of a guitar pick can produce as drastic of a change in tone as would the change of an entire guitar cabinet with guitar speakers sounding nothing like the speakers in the other cabinet? Interesting! Keep going - at this point you are not no longer an irritant but more just a source of whacky entertainment, and instead of me being irritated, I now actually feel very sorry for you, yet remain hungry to listen to more of your outrageous absurdities.

And you are making up conspiracy theories, not me, because you just cannot accept the fact of the bradshaw amp mod and now you even have to resort to believing that area 51 would have to be involved. This is how beliefs of pure quackery are born - according to your bankrupt reasoning which has no regard for any evidence whatsoever. No matter how irrefutable.

I'm an electrician BTW which makes me understand a variac quite well :lol:

Based on your belief about the color of picks making as equal of a sound change on tone as does switches to different cabinets with different speakers, I have every valid reason the world to maintain an extreme skepticism about your claims to any knowledge of what a variable ac does to the sound of distortion, and I remain equally skeptical of your claims to any electrical knowledge.

Based on this, no normal person would allow you into their home to work on their electrical related matters.

In addition, the sound of the distortion on obsolete proves this additional modded preamp section with tons more preamp gain of a particular smooth kind. This is the greatest piece of evidence out of them all.
 
Wow, tone freak you may be one of the strangest, craziest people I have ever seen on a forum. And that's really saying something! You are not the kind of person even worth arguing with because you don't use common sense and logic. And you put words into people's mouths. And did I mention that you may be crazy?

Finally, if he did have his amp modded after Demanufacture and before Obsolete, by Bradshaw, with a variac, blah blah blah, who cares? His tone on Demanufacture was so much tighter, crunchier, and more defined anyways. His tone went downhill after that album and has never been as good. IMO of course.
 
Animal, thanks for posting the rest of that Guitar World article. Great stuff! Dino is hilarious..."Rich pussies, I'm playing riffs, not leads!"
 
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