FEAR FACTORY's Demanufacture sound in here!

DawnOfIniquity said:
Wow, tone freak you may be one of the strangest, craziest people I have ever seen on a forum. And that's really saying something!
Click to expand...

Explain how so? I only refuted incorrect information. And now you want to somehow classify the truth as crazy because you two are not happy with it for some odd reason.

If you believe I am crazy or strange, well then this makes you no different than those who considered the first people who discovered that the earth was not flat to also be crazy or strange - which therefore makes you the "TRULY" crazy one. LOL. Sorry to burst your bubble but I only tell it like it is.

You are not the kind of person even worth arguing with because you don't use common sense and logic.
Click to expand...

Oh really? Care to explain where I did not use common sense or logic? Care to back up your claims for a change? Otherwise thats just pure untrue garbage that you are spewing out of your mouth.

And you put words into people's mouths.
Click to expand...

Care to show where I did that? Don't make unsupported claims over and over. Dont just say it, prove it. otherwise you are coming across as a bigoted and arrogant member here.

And did I mention that you may be crazy?
Click to expand...

Based on nothing to support your claim. Oh, and did I mention you may likely be on crack? If not, then please swallow it hard and accept another truth.

Finally, if he did have his amp modded after Demanufacture and before Obsolete, by Bradshaw, with a variac, blah blah blah, who cares? His tone on Demanufacture was so much tighter, crunchier, and more defined anyways.
Click to expand...

Actually no it wasn't. Demanufacture just had better mids and just a darker room tone captured. But the distortion was whey more defined in Obsolete with alot more defined crunch. Because clearly - Dino was not yet satisfied with his distortion on Demanufacture - which is why he had the amp modded for more defined gain, and a different style of gain.

Demanufacture's distortion just sounded a like a Metal Zone pedal through a JCM800, so I would not be surprised if thats what actually was used for the distortion on Demanufacture because it was a pedal-like distortion. Obsolete had a more defined pre-amp tube gain and was no longer pedal-like.
 
Sorry, maybe I shouldn't have called you crazy. You need to chill out and relax though. (And post some damn concrete evidence about Dino's variac usage, haha)

But you are definitely not worth arguing with, so I will stop right here.
 
http://hugeracksinc.com/forum/viewtopic ... 6&start=15

CAE employees disputing the guitar geek article, as well as a band that toured with FF on Obsolete backing it up

http://acapella.harmony-central.com/sho ... st19486755


where did I said the colour of picks of changes the sound to? that was classic! maybe I can change my name to Eric Johnson, only I'm nowhere near as good :lol:

how come the info you said about the mod in the booklet suddenly vanished? you kinda brushed over that one

the funny thing is Dino has stated numerous times after the amp was stolen he went back to the guy that did the mod but he was no longer there....that counts out CAE and rings true with every interview he has given and the other amp techs and people that bought his spares off ebay etc (metalhead)

adios

BTW DOI, I totally agree about demanufacture having the better tone, i didnt like obsolete near as much but its all subjective anyway
 
Yeah, the color of the guitar pick changing the tone thing was hilarious! By the way, tone freak, that's what I meant when I said you put words into people's mouths. If you are going to argue your points, at least do so in an adult manner without twisting the facts around and then getting all hot and bothered and posting huge rants (although I'm sure there's some more coming now!)

I stand corrected about the mod probably being a clean boost or 808 style preamp boost. It looks like it was definitely an added 12ax7 tube gain stage, and probably very similar to the Jose mods. The other mods like an in-amp noise gate and effects loop (which we don't really care about anyways) came afterward. Unlike some people, I have no problem admitting when I am wrong though! ;)

Also, great info on that Australian Guitar interview. The amazing Demanufacture sound seems to also have come from quad tracking the guitars and also applying heavy EQ (which isn't too suprising).

Here's what changed the sound on Obsolete: Dino switched to Ibanez 7 strings with EMG 707s and a 0.050 string tuned to A instead of 6 string ESPs with EMG 81s with a 0.052 (or maybe 0.050?) tuned to B. He only double tracked the guitars on Obsolete - one hard left and hard right. And the producer definitely EQ'd them much differently once they were recorded. This is what accounts for the differences - end of story!
 
DawnOfIniquity said:
Yeah, the color of the guitar pick changing the tone thing was hilarious! By the way, tone freak, that's what I meant when I said you put words into people's mouths. If you are going to argue your points, at least do so in an adult manner without twisting the facts around and then getting all hot and bothered and posting huge rants (although I'm sure there's some more coming now!)

I stand corrected about the mod probably being a clean boost or 808 style preamp boost. It looks like it was definitely an added 12ax7 tube gain stage, and probably very similar to the Jose mods. The other mods like an in-amp noise gate and effects loop (which we don't really care about anyways) came afterward. Unlike some people, I have no problem admitting when I am wrong though! ;)

Also, great info on that Australian Guitar interview. The amazing Demanufacture sound seems to also have come from quad tracking the guitars and also applying heavy EQ (which isn't too suprising).

Here's what changed the sound on Obsolete: Dino switched to Ibanez 7 strings with EMG 707s and a 0.050 string tuned to A instead of 6 string ESPs with EMG 81s with a 0.052 (or maybe 0.050?) tuned to B. He only double tracked the guitars on Obsolete - one hard left and hard right. And the producer definitely EQ'd them much differently once they were recorded. This is what accounts for the differences - end of story!
Click to expand...


the metalhead mod was def 2 preamp tubes, bass boost and noise gate at the same time have a read of the guitar september 1995 link I posted (its right down the bottom of the mag) that one was a SOAB to find!!! I'm cleaning out now anyway :lol:

I think the fx loop was put in later as Dino started using some effects (chorus on securitron or something like that...it escapes me) this was the only other thing done to that head. I thought I had an interview where he might have mentioned this but I haven't found it....maybe I read it in a store

crazy thing is (I forgot this) colin richardson did SOANM (1992) as well! the tonal differences from that album to Demanufacture (1995) is quite a bit!
still the same amp and at that point guitar setup

but then you look at Necroticism > Heartwork which were recorded 1991/1993
same deal...... he really improved in production skills in that time
 
Anyways, Bradshaw mentioned something about a guy named Jose. I dont think this contradicts the premise... perhaps he worked for him or something at tht time.

i was not able to confirm variac on the obsolete mod, but i know for a fact that such a mod would make the distortion very symmetrical. perhaps even more so than the perfect obsolete gain. but i wish the obsolete record would have had the demanufacture mid tone.
 
animal said:
the metalhead mod was def 2 preamp tubes, bass boost and noise gate at the same time have a read of the guitar september 1995 link I posted (its right down the bottom of the mag) that one was a SOAB to find!!! I'm cleaning out now anyway :lol:
Click to expand...

Oh, I see. That little German man did a lot of stuff for $100! That's such a cool mod though, kind of similar to the Kerry King signature head they put out now.

animal said:
crazy thing is (I forgot this) colin richardson did SOANM (1992) as well! the tonal differences from that album to Demanufacture (1995) is quite a bit!
still the same amp and at that point guitar setup

but then you look at Necroticism > Heartwork which were recorded 1991/1993
same deal...... he really improved in production skills in that time
Click to expand...

Yeah, that guy developed some serious recording skills within a year or two! Necroticism and SOANM are not even on the same level, soundwise. I always loved the music on Necroticism and wished it had the same slick production as Heartwork.
 
Tone_Freak said:
Anyways, Bradshaw mentioned something about a guy named Jose. I dont think this contradicts the premise... perhaps he worked for him or something at tht time.

i was not able to confirm variac on the obsolete mod, but i know for a fact that such a mod would make the distortion very symmetrical. perhaps even more so than the perfect obsolete gain. but i wish the obsolete record would have had the demanufacture mid tone.
Click to expand...

I'm pretty sure Jose Arredondo did all his mod work by himself, but who knows? I'm no expert, and they certainly could have collaborated on stuff together. Or perhaps Bradshaw helped Dino fix his amp when it broke down (which sounded like it was quite a bit from the threads Animal linked). That would make a lot of sense, since the original guy that modded the amp was gone, Dino would have to take the amp somewhere in LA to get it fixed again.

Yeah, Demanufacture definitely had a nice midrange. It was scooped, but only certain mid frequencies are scooped, which allowed the guitar to still have some body and really cut through. If you like the Obsolete tone better, you probably like the more raw, open sound of just double tracking guitars instead of quad tracking. The quad tracking makes them sound thicker and like there's a chorus effect on them, but that will definitely take away from the organic rawness and make it sound more "produced."

I wouldn't mind having the variac option in the Axe though. The more options the better.
 
anyways, i apologize to dawnh of iniquity too.... for previous retaliations... its all water under a bridge... if we can let bygones be bygones...

perhaps it was just a good amp with simple gain mods.

the KK head is sick on the same cab... bu i think the difference is that the Cazares head already had the pre-filtering process already built into it or something... for tight bass. for the KK head, you have to insert a filter or an upside down V shaped EQ filtering mid boost around 500K, or a Q-zone.... but the problem with the Q-zone (essentially a fixed wah effect) is that you need to roll back on the tone knob a bit on the guitar... otherwise its whey too nasal.... but on the cazares head was so perfect, that i guess the Dino forever got into the habit of not using tone knobs since i never see his guitars having one.

the curve of the tone knob, i admit, is a phenomenon i still fail to fully grasp. but i know that it balances out the mids on the KK head with the whole mid boosted before the input type resonant mid punch idea... so therefore i always need tone knobs on all my guitars.

guys just bug cliff about that variac. I know it does something cool. its a different definition... its almost like a synthesizer effect... but all this other stuff about eliminating farting flub - before all this acts on the signal - is absolutely key.

the idea for my album is that i would like to use an expression pedal to vary variac settings - normal setting when palm mute machine gun riffing, and a bit lowered variac with the pedal for chords... foot constantly on it. but who knows, I might be wrong... because it seems the effect that lowering tube biasing is having on the ultra is not quite the same as tube biasing was in Guitar Rig 3/4. Perhaps tehe idea in Guitar Rig was the biasing of preamp tubes and not poweramp ones. Again, I am not 100% sure on anything.

Does anyone know of other mods which the axe does not have tweakability in that could potentially have an effect on the waveform of the distortion?
 
I finally got a chance to try the patch with this great receipe

schecter 7 string flying V > EMG 707TW> flat battery>crackly cable>axe-fx>cheap hifi speakers :lol:

sounded very good for this horrible combo! I've been away for so long I dunno where half my stuff is!

thanks again to the OP!!!

makes me wonder if Dino has ever checked out the axe-fx?!?!?!
 
Wait, i completely missed the hellbeast and metal amp - apparently the metal amp is a hot rodded british amp according to the manual. And the hellbeast is quite possibly the KK amp.

Because even without a variac I am almost nailing it... so i think i need to buy a ton of impulses until i get the right mic placement.
 
animal said:
oh I *think* this is the last interview I have to (its a good one!)
exactly the same as the what the cameron guy said in the previous post link

he mentions why demanufature and obsolete sound different tone wise ;)


http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1536/p1010148i.jpg
Click to expand...

Were Dino's Ibanez 7 strings 25.5" scale? I'm guessing his ESP's were 25.5" scale. If so, his tension comments in that article don't make much sense.
 
animal said:
oh I *think* this is the last interview I have to (its a good one!)
exactly the same as the what the cameron guy said in the previous post link

he mentions why demanufature and obsolete sound different tone wise ;)


http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1536/p1010148i.jpg
Click to expand...

Oh so now there is more support for the idea that Dinos amps had the altered Variac setting because look here! In that article, Dino says the following:

"I met a few people aling the way that showed me awesome things about tones. One of them was Eddie Van Halen. I was searching for the tone that was on their first record for a long time."

And in my other thread called "Request: VARIAC on amp models", member barhrecords on page 3 of that thread - knew exactly what I was talking about, as he said its this mysterious thing that Van Halen had going, and that Van Halen talked about using a variac on the first Van Halen album. And then he posted the following link:

http://mr5150.vhvault.com/evh-brown-sound.html

(And the thread was: viewtopic.php?f=29&t=4407&start=20 )
 
Dave2000 said:
Thanks dudes!

Well it's probably the same approach as everyone else is doing.
First i try to come as close as possible with just amp and a cab, the i load the first eq.
Then i take a part from the original track en extract that in mono (just the left channel - very important)
Then i record my piece as close as possible to the original, extract that in mono and open both parts in Har-Bal *harmonic-balancer, that's an offline EQ program that's build for mastering but analyses audio in a very specific way. It let's me see an average eq curve.
Then i go to the eq in the axe-fx editor and change what needs to be changed, save that and go back to cubase.
Record the part again, extract that open it in Har-Bal and see what needs to be changed.
I do this several times until the curve matches the original. U can do this with voxengo curve EQ but Har-bal is extremely accurate (it's a separate program, not a plugin)

That is how i did it, this is probably a good way to to make impulses with the corrected eq curve.
But i still have to figure out how to do that in this way.

Gr,

Dave
Click to expand...



just wondering if you ever heard Resistancia on the digipack of Demanufacture? That has the cleanest sample of just dinos guitar alone in the start
bodyhammers got the synth just creeping in ...not sure if that would mess with the EQ in har-bal

I'm loving this patch! I'm gonna try to do a comparison with Resistancia
 
Chad said:
animal said:
oh I *think* this is the last interview I have to (its a good one!)
exactly the same as the what the cameron guy said in the previous post link

he mentions why demanufature and obsolete sound different tone wise ;)


http://img87.imageshack.us/img87/1536/p1010148i.jpg
Click to expand...

Were Dino's Ibanez 7 strings 25.5" scale? I'm guessing his ESP's were 25.5" scale. If so, his tension comments in that article don't make much sense.
Click to expand...

for obsolete it was 25.5" ..I never really understood that either...I'm not sure if he was blocking the trems at that point but I remember he was saying it was in the way the tech set it up (springs in the back!??!?!)

he used the baritones later on , for digimortal I *think*

I know one of his low pro edges was one of the first I saw that had been turned into a fixed bridge with two big screws and one at the rear
 
animal said:
he was blocking the trems....

the way the tech set it up... (springs in the back!??!?!) ...low pro edges...

...had been turned into a fixed bridge with two big screws and one at the rear
Click to expand...

among the many reasons why I would never buy a DC7... if Dino ever got a signature ibanez -

Who in their right mind would route a giant tone-sucking hole through the body or a guitar? I prefer a bridge with a tiny little cavity no deeper or larger than an eraser.

why go through all that hectic struggle in the cavity to insert a block to lock the bridge when I can just turn a tiny hex adjuster for instant fixed mode.

and why should i have to adjust the action of the entire bridge when I can just adjust one saddle any of 6 possible directions?

In essence, this is among about 20 other reasons that I would never touch a floyd rose with a ten foot pole, even if there was a DC7 Signature.
 
Tone_Freak said:
animal said:
he was blocking the trems....

the way the tech set it up... (springs in the back!??!?!) ...low pro edges...

...had been turned into a fixed bridge with two big screws and one at the rear
Click to expand...

among the many reasons why I would never buy a DC7... if Dino ever got a signature ibanez -

Who in their right mind would route a giant tone-sucking hole through the body or a guitar? I prefer a bridge with a tiny little cavity no deeper or larger than an eraser.

why go through all that hectic struggle in the cavity to insert a block to lock the bridge when I can just turn a tiny hex adjuster for instant fixed mode.

and why should i have to adjust the action of the entire bridge when I can just adjust one saddle any of 6 possible directions?

In essence, this is among about 20 other reasons that I would never touch a floyd rose with a ten foot pole, even if there was a DC7 Signature.
Click to expand...

He's using the Fixed Edge bridges on his guitars now. They sort of look like floating tremolos, but they are actually bridges fixed directly to the body with no routing for springs. The shitty thing is...they ONLY make the 7 string version for Dino. I know other Ibanez endorsees can't even get them. Back in Fear Factory days though, he did indeed just have them blocked, probably just a big chunk of wood.

It's all worth it for locked strings that don't go out of tune though. Or if you actually use the whammy bar like I do.
 
DawnOfIniquity said:
Have you guys seen this yet? It's from the last part of the Ibanez 7th Heaven video. Dino's starts playing at about 1:33. You get to here his legendary Marshall head in action! God it sounds great even just mic'd up directly for a video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uOLJLcYYsQM
Click to expand...


yeah I always wanted to get that video!!!

I was just thinking the other day there DVD digital __something__ might have some studio footage on there ...
theres live footage of the amp for sure...I've got it somewhere.,.....

theres the linchpin ep that has a little studio footage of digimortal sadly not 'the' amp.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom