AxeFx sighting... rigs for Linkin Park

Ben.Last said:
No. I'd be more cliche blaming those things. Want to know why attempts to address those things don't matter? Because the fans are the problem. People that are more intent on using the internet as a soap box to bitch and moan about how "horrible" a band is, just because they happen to not be a fan are the problem. In my experience, people that do that don't actually give a damn about music; they're more interested in using it to build up some kind of bs "street cred." Then they rejoice when they can hop on a site like Metalsucks (also part of the problem) and feel that there are other people out there that are just as petty and small minded as they are, which, obviously, indicates that that they're vindicated in their thinking. It's twisting music into some kind of status symbol, rather than viewing it as what it is, art.

It's not the end of the world at all. But, yes, you're a part of the problem.
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The amount of logical fallacies and historically inaccurate statements in your argument is stupendous, including:
  • It's the fan voicing an opinion about art and whether that art connects with him or her that is killing the music industry. Never mind other valid diagnosis offered by people in the business about problems with the music industry, nope it is passionate music fans voicing opinions that is killing it. /sarc
  • People in your experience that exhibit certain behaviors voice certain opinions, ergo everyone who voices a similar opinion must have those same certain behaviors.
  • Only certain individuals have the stamp of approval to offer a critique, others should just keep their mouths shut and pay money to support a system that encourages art that is not to a person's liking.
  • Fans or critics had to wait until the internet to develop a community of like minded people that share a certain opinion about an artist. I guess all those fanzines, Music magazines, conversations in school, clubs or coffee tables, or correspondence between people about art never existed prior to the internet. /sarc
  • Music was never ever a sort of status symbol. Yep those patrons of the classical and baroque composers just sponsored performances and works out of charity. /sarc Making a statement such as that status symbol argument smacks of being ignorant of music history.

Sheesh, lighten up.

If you are going to make an argument and assail someone's opinion, at least be logically consistent and have some historical support for your beliefs.

Otherwise, others will find no value in your statement except others who share the same logical fallacies and myopic historical view of things.
 
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dr bonkers said:
If you are going to make an argument and assail someone's opinion, at least be logically consistent and have some historical support for your beliefs.

Otherwise, others will find no value in your statement except others who share the same logical fallacies and myopic historical view of things.
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If you're going to make an attempt to assail someone's opinion, make sure you actually understand their opinion. Also, next time you start saying that you're going to point out logical fallacies, you may want to actually do so, because that's not a term that just means "I think you're wrong."

Again, since I guess I may not be making myself clear still:

Voice opinions. Opinions are awesome. I love opinions; even ones that I don't agree with.

Posting things like "Hi guys. I see you all talking about Band X. Well, Band X sucks and the members should all die of ass cancer," however, may be an opinion, but that is also being a cunty jerk. There is absolutely nothing of value in that "opinion."

As for my historical references. Yes, there have been fanzines, magazines, etc. for decades. There has, however, never been the level of group think that we've since the proliferation of the internet. By all means, point out where you saw the level of negativity and utter hatred that has become unavoidable on the internet (especially on message boards, comment threads, etc.)

I never said that music as a status symbol doesn't have historical precedent. I simply find the extent to which fans of rock and metal take part in treating it as such incredibly hypocritical to say the least. You say you're a fan of a genre that's left of center and about not giving a shit about status and all that pop bullshit? Try to act like it.
 
Ben.Last said:
I never said that music as a status symbol doesn't have historical precedent. I simply find the extent to which fans of rock and metal take part in treating it as such incredibly hypocritical to say the least. You say you're a fan of a genre that's left of center and about not giving a shit about status and all that pop bullshit? Try to act like it.
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You have to take the target demographic of that genre into consideration and take everything said/posted a full shaker of salt. Let's face it, we were all pretty "young, dumb, and full of cum" when we were all "18 to 20'somethings". I learned a long time ago, 30 to 35 is the minimum age range where I start taking anyone seriously. Frankly, I won't even join a band with anyone younger than that and don't even consider them for positions in projects I put together.

That aside, you seem to have a problem letting things go. As you noted...it's an internet forum. It's not "real life". You won't change anyone's opinions or behaviors. Move on.
 
Ben.Last said:
If you're going to make an attempt to assail someone's opinion, make sure you actually understand their opinion. Also, next time you start saying that you're going to point out logical fallacies, you may want to actually do so, because that's not a term that just means "I think you're wrong."

Again, since I guess I may not be making myself clear still:

Voice opinions. Opinions are awesome. I love opinions; even ones that I don't agree with.

Posting things like "Hi guys. I see you all talking about Band X. Well, Band X sucks and the members should all die of ass cancer," however, may be an opinion, but that is also being a cunty jerk. There is absolutely nothing of value in that "opinion."

As for my historical references. Yes, there have been fanzines, magazines, etc. for decades. There has, however, never been the level of group think that we've since the proliferation of the internet. By all means, point out where you saw the level of negativity and utter hatred that has become unavoidable on the internet (especially on message boards, comment threads, etc.)

I never said that music as a status symbol doesn't have historical precedent. I simply find the extent to which fans of rock and metal take part in treating it as such incredibly hypocritical to say the least. You say you're a fan of a genre that's left of center and about not giving a shit about status and all that pop bullshit? Try to act like it.
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Another logical fallacy called the straw man argument or the weak man argument is what you have employed here, as that statement is not what the original poster who raised your ire posted and you know that. Also, my point about the consumption of art actually being part status symbol always was obviously lost on you.

For reference in the future:
Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The weak man | The Non Sequitur


I perfectly understood your arguments and they are logically and historically either pretty unsound or not accurate to reality.

It is always what is happening today that is 20 times worse than what was happening 10, 20, 50, or 300 years ago because in many cases either the person making such comments was either not present and aware at the time of such a situation unfolding/repeating or time tends to dull events and make them gauzy in recollection. This is also known as the "hell in a hand basket" phenomenon since the age of Socrates: http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=638184 .

Again, lighten up, Francis, unless you want to ironically fall prey to the negativity you say is the type killing the music industry, of course as long as it isn't you saying the critique or opinion.
 
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dr bonkers said:
Another logical fallacy called the straw man argument or the weak man argument is what you have employed here, as that statement is not what the original poster who raised your ire posted and you know that. Also, my point about the consumption of art actually being part status symbol always was obviously lost on you.

For reference in the future:
Straw man - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The weak man | The Non Sequitur


I perfectly understood your arguments and they are logically and historically either pretty unsound or not accurate to reality.

It is always what is happening today that is 20 times worse than what was happening 10, 20, 50, or 300 years ago because in many cases either the person making such comments was either not present and aware at the time of such a situation unfolding/repeating or time tends to dull events and make them gauzy in recollection. This is also known as the "hell in a hand basket" phenomenon since the age of Socrates: Straight Dope Message Board .

Again, lighten up, Francis, unless you want to ironically fall prey to the negativity you say is the type killing the music industry, of course as long as it isn't you saying the critique or opinion.
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You're misusing "straw man" here, actually. Straw man is not an argument where it's stated that someone's comments are indicative of something else. That's not a logical fallacy at all (it's actually just an inductive argument, really). A straw man would have been if I'd focused on his usage of the fact that the band uses turntables, for instance. Maybe implying that that meant that he was saying that every group that used turntables sucks. THAT would have been a straw man. Nice try though. However, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the entirety of your posts in response to me have, in fact, been actual straw man fallacies.

Also, it's only "hell in a hand basket" if there's no indication given of things actually having changed over the course of time. There is here. One would have to be a fool to imply that the proliferation of the internet hasn't altered the way that we approach music as fans.

Further, no, I got your point about status symbols. Then I pointed out the fault that I found in it.

So, really, the only thing that's unsound and inaccurate here is your understanding of logic fallacies and reason. Things don't become fallacies just because you don't agree with them.

And, again, I'm plenty light here. I don't know how many times I have to say that. Are some of you just incapable of having a discussion with someone that you disagree with, leading you to assume that another person doing so must be mad as hell if he's doing so???? As for your implication about my negativity related to the opinions of others, I will, again (seems I'm having to do a lot of things repeatedly here) point to the fact that I didn't take issue at all with the fact that the guy doesn't like Linkin Park.
 
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EJ James said:
That aside, you seem to have a problem letting things go. As you noted...it's an internet forum. It's not "real life". You won't change anyone's opinions or behaviors. Move on.
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I understand what you're saying. It isn't that I have a problem letting things go, or that I expect anyone to actually have an epiphany related to anything I'm saying, it just doesn't actually take much to have a conversation with people (even people that I don't see eye to eye with).
 
Haha was the original comment really that offensive to warrant all this effort? I say play you're guitar more (hey you, put that turntable down) or go solve world hunger. :D
 
+1. Humor and (really serious) music should have nothing in common. That's a fact. So please, stop all the humor here. Come on, it's for music's sake. Stay true.










HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAAAHAAHAHAHAHA......
 
funkstation777 said:
+1. Humor and (really serious) music should have nothing in common. That's a fact. So please, stop all the humor here. Come on, it's for music's sake. Stay true.












HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAHAAAHAAHAHAHAHA......
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Tell that to the Meatmen.

Why is it so hard for people who do not like a band to simply avoid threads about said band? When the OP shared the picture I highly doubt he expected this to become a referendum on the quality of Linkin Park. And FWIW, even if they do suck (voicing no opinion), they are making more money than you will ever make, doing what they love, so who's the pathetic one?
 
Ben.Last said:
You're misusing "straw man" here, actually. Straw man is not an argument where it's stated that someone's comments are indicative of something else. That's not a logical fallacy at all (it's actually just an inductive argument, really). A straw man would have been if I'd focused on his usage of the fact that the band uses turntables, for instance. Maybe implying that that meant that he was saying that every group that used turntables sucks. THAT would have been a straw man. Nice try though. However, I'd be remiss if I didn't point out that the entirety of your posts in response to me have, in fact, been actual straw man fallacies.
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So tell me then, where did someone wish ass cancer on Linkin Park in their criticisms, that conjured your diatribe that criticism is killing the music business?

Do tell!

That part of your hyperbole, for starters, is a straw man.

I only replied to your hyperbole by pointing out where your arguments were deficient. By definition, that's not a straw man.

Nice try though, as it sounds like you have knowledge of the tools of discourse, but this is not your finest thread in employing them based on the counterarguments you are receiving from many in this thread.
 
dr bonkers said:
So tell me then, where did someone wish ass cancer on Linkin Park in their criticisms, that conjured your diatribe that criticism is killing the music business?

Do tell!

That part of your hyperbole, for starters, is a straw man.

I only replied to your hyperbole by pointing out where your arguments were deficient. By definition, that's not a straw man.

Nice try though, as it sounds like you have knowledge of the tools of discourse, but this is not your finest thread in employing them based on the counterarguments you are receiving from many in this thread.
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That's still not a straw man. I've used hyperbole, sure, and that was intentional, and mostly used for levity. I did not imply anywhere that his comment was as bad as wishing ass cancer on them, which would have, potentially, been capable of being considered a straw man argument.

Your attempts to point out the "deficiencies" in my argument are, in turn, totally misconstruing my point. THAT is a straw man. You may be doing it by accident, but you're still doing it.
 
Interrobang Studios - I'm My Own Mascot

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If you attach the AXE to turntable and spin it in reverse, it says "Paul Died of Ass Cancer". At least that's what some people hear.
 
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