Axe-Fx II Firmware 18.10 Released

Rezarc SP said:
The Placebo effect is very powerful with audio....

Anyway, our perceptions of audio are very malleable, and external influences can really mess with your ear.
Click to expand...


This is why I'm going to stop updating FW's once we get into FW19 or FW20 (or whenever the AX8 is released). Reason is - if G3 is as good as we all think it is, and it's as accurate as we all say it is, there will be no more 'refining' required to amp modeling. I think we're close to that point right now. If so, the next step is to update effects and/or distortion pedals, which I'm not as concerned about.

I want my tone to be influenced by how it sounds, not by a placebo effect that is constantly being put into effect by updating FW's or reading hype on the forum. I'm not saying the hype isn't justified, I'm just saying that it effects how we perceive our tone, and it's a never ending cycle. The fact is, if FW updates stopped right now, I'd be satisfied.
 
JRod4928 said:
This is why I'm going to stop updating FW's once we get into FW19 or FW20 (or whenever the AX8 is released). Reason is - if G3 is as good as we all think it is, and it's as accurate as we all say it is, there will be no more 'refining' required to amp modeling. I think we're close to that point right now. If so, the next step is to update effects and/or distortion pedals, which I'm not as concerned about.

I want my tone to be influenced by how it sounds, not by a placebo effect that is constantly being put into effect by updating FW's or reading hype on the forum. I'm not saying the hype isn't justified, I'm just saying that it effects how we perceive our tone, and it's a never ending cycle. The fact is, if FW updates stopped right now, I'd be satisfied.
Click to expand...
This. I think the point of diminishing returns from tinkering with the amp block has been reached. But then again, what do I know about amps?

The major Firmware updates always had some other fluff beyond improvements to amp modelling. Sometimes we get new block algorithms (like the recent additions of the studio verb) or just some new amps to try out. Or we get some improvements to performance that frees up some CPU (like stereo URs). Point is: it still makes sense upgrading even if you're satisfied with your tone already.

Come to think about it: it's amazing that Fractal reached the point already in which we - as the users - actually discuss if it still makes sense to improve sound of the amp sims further. Who would have expected that 10 years ago?
 
JRod4928 said:
This is why I'm going to stop updating FW's once we get into FW19 or FW20 (or whenever the AX8 is released). Reason is - if G3 is as good as we all think it is, and it's as accurate as we all say it is, there will be no more 'refining' required to amp modeling. I think we're close to that point right now. If so, the next step is to update effects and/or distortion pedals, which I'm not as concerned about.

I want my tone to be influenced by how it sounds, not by a placebo effect that is constantly being put into effect by updating FW's or reading hype on the forum. I'm not saying the hype isn't justified, I'm just saying that it effects how we perceive our tone, and it's a never ending cycle. The fact is, if FW updates stopped right now, I'd be satisfied.
Click to expand...

i'm sure Cliff will always find things he wants to improve on. it's not a placebo effect, it's the Cliff affect....I want it every time, lol...
 
jlynnb1 said:
i'm sure Cliff will always find things he wants to improve on. it's not a placebo effect, it's the Cliff affect....I want it every time, lol...
Click to expand...

Cliff definitely makes improvements and those improvements are not placebo... I'm not saying he's tricking us. I'm saying that we trick ourselves. I'd rather spend my time playing than tweaking everytime a new minor FW release comes out. It's a rabbit hole. Maybe I'd jump from FW18 to FW20 to FW25, but I don't see the need to do every single update... unless it's a bug fix or a revolutionary update like UltraRes or G3. YMMV
 
JRod4928 said:
Cliff definitely makes improvements and those improvements are not placebo... I'm not saying he's tricking us. I'm saying that we trick ourselves. I'd rather spend my time playing than tweaking everytime a new minor FW release comes out. It's a rabbit hole. Maybe I'd jump from FW18 to FW20 to FW25, but I don't see the need to do every single update... unless it's a bug fix or a revolutionary update like UltraRes or G3. YMMV
Click to expand...

yeah but I rarely feel the need to retweak anything. just seems to be more of a sweetening thing. I honestly didn't even need to retweak after G3.
 
jlynnb1 said:
yeah but I rarely feel the need to retweak anything. just seems to be more of a sweetening thing. I honestly didn't even need to retweak after G3.
Click to expand...

If that continues to be the case, that's awesome. Like I mentioned before, if G3 is the real deal, long term, there shouldn't be any more major amp modeling updates and amp modeling should translate well from one FW to the next... unless Cliff incorporates mixing/matching pre-amp and power-amp models, or a 'create your own amp' function where you pick your own amp components or something crazy like that, lol.
 
i feel like the people who have to do a massive retweaking are those that go into the deep parameters and do things to achieve whatever tone they are looking for. I've personally never felt the need to do so, so when those things get changed it doesn't affect me. i can see why those that deal with such things would be wary of all the updates, though...
 
jlynnb1 said:
i feel like the people who have to do a massive retweaking are those that go into the deep parameters and do things to achieve whatever tone they are looking for. I've personally never felt the need to do so, so when those things get changed it doesn't affect me. i can see why those that deal with such things would be wary of all the updates, though...
Click to expand...

I can't notice any difference even tweaking most of those advanced parameters a lot of times..... Its cool they are there and all, but I just don't hear it.

Bad ears, or unsophisticated tonal palette I guess. Same with real world amps; I had a buddy who would spend all this time swapping tube brands, adjusting bias etc and I just didn't hear it. $10 EHX preamp tube sounded just like a $50 NOS RCA preamp tube to me.... Chinese made speaker vs English speaker ? Again nope. 10 foot cable for 15 foot cable ? Nope....

Again, not saying the difference isn't there, but its seldom one I can pick out, which sometimes makes me feel in the minority, at least based upon user forum responses, but as for overall Axe users, I'd guess I'm actually in the majority. After all, what percentage of overall Axe owners regularly participate here and dissect each now FW update ? 1% maybe ?
 
JRod4928 said:
Cliff definitely makes improvements and those improvements are not placebo... I'm not saying he's tricking us. I'm saying that we trick ourselves. I'd rather spend my time playing than tweaking everytime a new minor FW release comes out. It's a rabbit hole. Maybe I'd jump from FW18 to FW20 to FW25, but I don't see the need to do every single update... unless it's a bug fix or a revolutionary update like UltraRes or G3. YMMV
Click to expand...

I've been gradually moving to operate this way too. I used to pounce on every release and every .0x update but I've learned to relax and take my time.

I love gear but my music time is not unlimited. I'm trying to put MUSIC first within the time I can spare for music. Not always easy, these toys are just so distractingly fun.
 
lqdsnddist said:
I can't notice any difference even tweaking most of those advanced parameters a lot of times..... Its cool they are there and all, but I just don't hear it.

Bad ears, or unsophisticated tonal palette I guess. Same with real world amps; I had a buddy who would spend all this time swapping tube brands, adjusting bias etc and I just didn't hear it. $10 EHX preamp tube sounded just like a $50 NOS RCA preamp tube to me.... Chinese made speaker vs English speaker ? Again nope. 10 foot cable for 15 foot cable ? Nope....

Again, not saying the difference isn't there, but its seldom one I can pick out, which sometimes makes me feel in the minority, at least based upon user forum responses, but as for overall Axe users, I'd guess I'm actually in the majority. After all, what percentage of overall Axe owners regularly participate here and dissect each now FW update ? 1% maybe ?
Click to expand...

i also feel that some hear what they want to hear sometimes...for good or bad.
 
jlynnb1 said:
i feel like the people who have to do a massive retweaking are those that go into the deep parameters and do things to achieve whatever tone they are looking for. I've personally never felt the need to do so, so when those things get changed it doesn't affect me. i can see why those that deal with such things would be wary of all the updates, though...
Click to expand...

I don't agree. I don't have a lot experience to go into deep editing but i always have to tweak the presets after updates..
Remember the first time of F18, everybody discussed the global tone change of the presets(a little darker).
Sometimes some amp models' volumes changes dramatically, so everybody have to change all the presets that contains these amp blocks..

To sum up, i love updates and all the new things Cliff do to that awesome black box, i hope they keep doing that updates..But, i have to tweak my existing presets all the time, i really don't like that..Sometimes i think i don't have enough time to play that i spend all of it by tweaking to turn back to my tone that i love... So i don't have the energy to follow every update.
 
Last edited:
I welcome subtle refinements to the amp modeling. But I also can no longer notice them when they are released incrementally. I would have to hold off on several firmware updates, and then update all at once to hope to notice the improvement. His models have become that good. New features and improvements to the effects are now my main motivators for firmware updates.
 
Normally, I never have to tweak. But after 18 I had to adjust Crunch/Neg Fdbk/Trans Match per Cliff's suggestions... otherwise it was too stiff sounding.

This was mostly for playing live; I didn't notice it as much in my headphones but through our monitors it was pretty dramatic.
 
CHSTD said:
I don't agree. I don't have a lot experience to go into deep editing but i always have to tweak the presets after updates..
Remember the first time of F18, everybody discussed the global tone change of the presets(a little darker).
Click to expand...

18s not a good example at all, it was a fundamental shift and affected many core default values across all amps. Folks are discussing incremental point releases in this context. 18 was a major release among major releases, so much so that Cliff even changed his 'technology' moniker from G2->G3.

As for the point releases it is like weight lifting or any other training, small, incremental gains, over time, produce dramatic results. But on any given point release, I do not expect to necessarily notice anything significant, I often just reset the amp and go. Major tweaks are the exception rather than the rule on non-deep edits.
 
I'm glad that most of the forum appears to be in agreement that as far as amp modeling goes the axe fx has pretty much hit it's peak and most likely all future changes to the preamp modeling will be so subtle most will not even notice except for the constant tweakers & Eric Johnson. To me, that's good. I mean, to me the purpose of the Axe was to replicate all the tones of the Marshalls & Fenders etc. If you think about it, Marshall & Fender amps really haven't had any improvements since the 80's for Marshall and the 60's for Fender. (All I care about is the Marshall tones Malmsteen, Rhoads, EVH, Vai, Slash,ACDC, Metallica, Megadeth, etc get & The Fender tones that SRV got, that's it, that's all I want out of the Axe Fx) So I mean seeing how the actual amps the unit is trying to replicate hit perfection decades ago, it only makes sense that the Axe itself will eventually hit that same level of perfection. I haven't had a Fractal since I sold the Standard that first came out, I just got a 2nd part time job today to help save up for the new Axe 2 xl, working 60+ hours a week now. But from what I hear through high quality headphones of the samples people post on here, The Fenders & Marshalls sound like the real amps so I don't know how you can improve on that, I don't even want it improved beyond that, I just want it to sound like real Fenders & Marshalls. I think the future of the Axe Fx is going to be doing more with the Effects side of it. Seems they could do a lot there. Lots of effects pedals haven't been done. I mean so far I've never heard anyone doing with a Fractal the things a person can do with a Digitech whammy pedal and do it equally as good. I also think there may eventually be Convultion reverbs. And more post processing stuff like what people do with the Slate plugins etc built into the Axe. I also hope one day Fractal makes a spring or light activated wah like the Bad Horsie.
 
The link Cliff provided for 18.10 is directing me to the FAS home page instead of prompting a download, I'm on 18.08 and if I remember correctly the link Cliff provided initiated the download.

Is anyone else experiencing this?
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom