Ax8 latency

BBN said:
How do you change from a clean preset to a high gain preset? (amp x/y and cab x/y)?
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You can't change amp models, but you can use scene controllers to change the gain levels as well as stack gain using drive blocks. The Axe II gives you a second amp block to swap between seamlessly, but the AX8 only has one.
 
BBN said:
How do you change from a clean preset to a high gain preset? (amp x/y and cab x/y)?
Click to expand...

It's not perfect, but if you pick an amp that can clean up well at low gains but can scream when cranked (or boosted), you can get a lot of range. Plexi style amps are really good here, but I've even had a passable clean tone from a Friedman BE model which is a pretty good amount of gain. I've also added a graphic EQ block to scoop the mids and boost the highs a bit for the clean tone.

Use scene controllers to adjust the amp gain (see the video above), then in the output mixer you can adjust individual scene outputs to taste. I also like to assign the reveb mix to scene controller two.

So I have a patch that looks like this:

Drive -> Amp -> EQ -> Cab -> Chorus -> Pitch -> Delay -> Reverb

Drive is a TS-808 style with lower gain and a little higher level
Amp is a Plexi style
EQ is set to scoop the mids a bit and boost the high end
Chorus is chorus
Pitch is the detune function to give that 80's double sound
Delay is a 1/4 note tap analog or whatever for leads
Reverb is a studio reverb mix
SC1 is amp gain
SC2 is reverb mix

Scene 1 - SC1 15%, SC2 15%, EQ and Chorus on
Scene 2 - SC1 30%, SC2 10%, no effects
Scene 3 - SC1 50%, SC2 10%, Pitch on
Scene 4 - SC1 55%, SC2 15%, Drive, Pitch, Delay on

S1 is my clean tone
S2 is my crunchy tone
S3 is my high gain tone
S4 is my lead tone

Map S1-S4 to the bottom four footswitches and map say Drive, Chorus, Pitch, Delay to the top four.

For all intents and purposes, switching is gapless and you can have spillover on the delay and reverb which is cool.

Check the video posted above to see how to do it in Axe Edit. I'm teaching myself to do it on the unit itself which is clunky of course but useful to know.
 
Jarick said:
It's not perfect, but if you pick an amp that can clean up well at low gains but can scream when cranked (or boosted), you can get a lot of range.
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Jarick, I honestly appreciate the lengthy response.
But (to me) this is not a solution, it's a work around.

Why have so many amps in the block box if you can't use them effectively???

I LOVE my Fractal products....but honestly, if the answer is - "don't use more than one amp", then that's just a shame.
I love my Tucana preset for my High Gain tone....and I love the FAS Clean for my clean tone. (and I like them both with different IR's). To not be able to use 2 AMPS out of the insane list of options in the box....that's just crazy.
 
mr_fender said:
Turn off the hold for X/Y feature for your foot switches. That makes it activate when you release the switch, not when you press it and can make it feel like it's lagging behind if you don't immediately lift your foot after pressing. That's necessary for differentiating between a press and a hold of the switch. Turning it off makes it send the instant you press the switch instead. Enabling and bypassing blocks via scenes will not cause a switching gap or delay. It will be completely seamless. Only X/Y changes and Preset changes cause the switching gap.
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I'm going to check this out....thanks.
 
I'll be trying to set up scenes tonight for my song list, .. I typically go from some sort of clean'ish or mild drive and progressively get heavier with more verb, delay, chorus.. and what ever other fx I feel like adding as the sound progresses.... I guess I'll find out about this "Lag" :D
 
Keep in mind, the AX8 was designed within the framework of the Axe II, a much more powerful unit. Compromises had to be made to be able to run the same models on less powerful hardware and at a price close to half that of the Axe II. Fractal could have created all new lower resolution models for the AX8's hardware to speed up switching but then it wouldn't sound as good. Nothing is free.
 
I use the 5153 blue amp block boosted with a TS 808 in the drive block and use Scene Controllers to take the Input Gain and Master volume down to a nice clean level. It's a pretty darn high gain amp but this approach works perfectly. And believe me my band would let me know if it wasn't acceptable. It is what it is. This topic has been going on for over a year now. The powers that be have stated it can't be fixed only minimalized or use the workarounds mentioned above to negate it completely. From what I understand the only fix for it is a second amp block like in the Axe which isn't coming to the AX8 anytime soon I'm guessing. Also, before I went the Scene Controllers route I just worked on my timing of switching to minimize the gaps noticeability. No one in my band ever even noticed the gap. But I did hence the switch to Scene Controllers.
 
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I really don't know that it's possible to switch from one amp to another without lag given the current hardware. That's the limitation of having one processor compared to two and part of why the AX8 is so much cheaper than the Axe FX. Unfortunately that's the compromise. I don't think they can minimize it by diverting resources away from modeling new equipment.
 
I'd also say it doesn't make the AX8 useless. There's a lot of famous guitarists who were more than capable of playing through one amp for an entire song and using their volume knob and sometimes a pedal or two. You can still change amps between songs in addition to having control over the gain, levels, and other blocks (like compressor and EQ) to make changes on the fly.
 
I know AX8 has some limitations in comparison with AXE FX II but I had the FXII and decided to buy the AX8 because of portability.
I read all the differences... but I couldn't know of this big problem.
Lag is about one second... maybe more on some presets... CPU is around 80%
I have this problem mainly switching between a clean amp (usually a fender or hiwatt) and a Friedman BE. Then I usually switch to solo adding a fas led drive and so i don't have a big lag.
I try to use the same layout in any preset starting with a compressor, tremolo, a drive, a volume pedal to have a quick boost for a short frase (adding reverb too) then amp with X/Y (fender and Friedman) then a parallel reverb and delay then a PEQ for solo boost, a loop to go to out2 for my amp and a cab.
Everything is perfect... but lag is too much...
I think and I hope there is a solution to drastically reduce this lag...
I've tested the workaround of scene controller but I was not able to get a decent clean sound with a Friedman BE...
And then I think that if you buy a Fractal product you don't want to use a single amp... but a good solution could be a clean and dirty channel for some amps... ;-)
I'm thinking of buying a real amp... maybe a Friedman runt 50... and use my AX8 jus for FX...
The other guitarist of the band has a Kemper and the lag is really short...
 
Alas you can't do amp x/y switching without a gap. End of.

X/y is a feature, but it's not a gapless switching feature.

I was initially disappointed about that too but this was a distraction from the huge logistical benefit of this device that was the main reason I bought it. Thankfully it's sufficiently flexible that I found a solution in the end without x/y.
 
Jarick said:
I really don't know that it's possible to switch from one amp to another without lag given the current hardware. That's the limitation of having one processor compared to two and part of why the AX8 is so much cheaper than the Axe FX. Unfortunately that's the compromise. I don't think they can minimize it by diverting resources away from modeling new equipment.
Click to expand...

What am I missing? This is the second reference I've seen to the AX8 having only one processor. I thought the AX8 has two (same as Helix, less powerful than Axe TigerSHARCs), but one dedicated to amp modeling and one for effects (unlike Helix that lets you share processors freely). Did something change?

RR
 
It has two processors, you are correct. I'd like to see the preset posted as well. I know it's been requested already, but without it we really don't know what we are dealing with.
 
My scene switching is completely seamless - I design each preset with seamless switching in mind. Just avoid XY changes on the amp and cab. Also avoid XY switching the reverb algorithm, that can cause janky artifacts. Use Scene Controllers and Control Switches for big changes. Note that even the Axe-Fx XL+ with dual TigerSHARCs doesn't have seamless switching when you swap Amp XY.

The solution for seamless scene switching using two different amp models is the same solution for using dual amps - you need two AX8s. ;-)
 
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