Anyone Want to Test This Beta Firmware

[javajunkie]

I understand. The problem is that every amp is different. My recto is different from every other one I've ever tried. My Uberschall did not sound like my buddies and sounds nothing like the Uberschall in the Axe. There are new revisions of each amp with tiny details changed, all speakers, even exactly the same model from the same year, are different to some extent, all mics are different, all tubes are different... etc... There is no perfect replication of any amp. There is only a perfect replication of one very specific amp at one very specific time. Adding a touch of low end, mid or top will not make it sound any more or less like the amp in question. In fact, it might just sound closer another production of the same amp. My point is, dial with your ears... you can make up for anything you hear that might be "different" or imperfect. The is no perfect and there is no "wrong" at this point of the game... there is only slightly different.

We are getting to a point where we are simply chasing our tails, in my estimation. 1703 is fantastic. I think the final frontier will be a dynamic cab IR that will display the same nonlinearities of real cabs in real rooms. I'm sure Cliff will figure that one out much like he figured out the dynamics of power amps. Then we are in for a real treat. The game will be changed forever.

You are not trying to capture the amp in this case, you are capturing the cab, the amp coloration makes that capture less accurate.

 

[RDH]

Uh, 2nd clip *should* be the slightly better (more pure) one ...

the 2nd clip is clearly more open and clear to me !! 1st is slightly congested in comparison !

 

[Gregmang]

I must admit that a lot of the tech stuff around here escapes me.

But what DOESN'T escape me is the constant pursuit of perfection.

 

[RDH]

No, why would it?

I'm beginning to regret this. It seemed pretty intuitive to me.

Human nature seems to overprocess change and progress and fear it, folks need to realize these are options to benefit us ,not limit us ! I for one extremely appreciate what you are doing here Cliff ,progress on the IR technology is the future for Ax Fx users . By the way I hear much improvement by this process that I'm very thankful to see develop !
Much thanks Cliff !! It is intuitive!!Don't lose heart because of a lack of understanding by users

 

[RDH]

I'm exited about this process, and very anxious for the new Cablab to release ! personally the difference here is a step in the direction I've been waiting for !! It allows the power amp in the Ax FX to sound and react to the IR more naturally and uncolored !!!

 

[barhrecords]

+1 on excited about the work FAS is doing related to IR's!

I would say compensate all the IR's in the Cab Packs by default and then provide the reference IR's for those that want to "add back" the amp coloration.

I for one, and I wonder how many other folks, would go ahead and compensate all the IR's anyway? why not make that the default?

 

[brianv4]

I would say compensate all the IR's in the Cab Packs by default and then provide the reference IR's for those that want to "add back" the amp coloration.

I for one would be content with reference ir's for existing cab packs and do the work myself. Don't know why anyone would want to "add back" the garbage to a pure ir. Hopefully OH can do reference ir's for their cab pack!

FAS is moving forward so quickly it's gonna be hard to keep up. Just the other day I listened to some line 6 models on YouTube. After hearing/using an axe it's obvious just how much they have to work on, they're falling so far behind (as are the other competitors too)

 

[USMC_Trev]

No, why would it?

I'm beginning to regret this. It seemed pretty intuitive to me.

Didn't mean it like that, man. Sorry.

 

[USMC_Trev]

None of this stuff is intuitive to me. I'm just trying to understand it all.

 

[erockomania]

Examples. Source: reamped DI signal, through the 4x12 Beatle cab, Royer 121 "B" (from Cab Pack 6).

1st clip without reference IR applied ("regular" UltraRes IR)

2nd clip with reference IR applied (same UltraRes IR with power amp coloration removed)

You may not hear any/much difference because the power amp coloration in the not-compensated IR already is minimal, due to professional IR capturing.

But you'll see differences when comparing the wave forms of the clips.

The difference is audible but just sounds like a slightly different EQ curve. While Rex confirmed that this is basically a more accurate baseline from which to start, is there anything at all this process adds in order to achieve tones unachievable without a reference IR? Can I get further along with this system or is it just another means to the same end? If I can get better tones after going through the effort, that is very important to me and very much worth any trouble. Again, I'm not being combative, just trying to see if this is adding some intangibles.

 

[guitardoc]

No, why would it?

I'm beginning to regret this. It seemed pretty intuitive to me.

For people who understand what all this is about it IS pretty intuitive.

 

[USMC_Trev]

Examples. Source: reamped DI signal, through the 4x12 Beatle cab, Royer 121 "B" (from Cab Pack 6).

1st clip without reference IR applied ("regular" UltraRes IR)

2nd clip with reference IR applied (same UltraRes IR with power amp coloration removed)

You may not hear any/much difference because the power amp coloration in the not-compensated IR already is minimal, due to professional IR capturing.

But you'll see differences when comparing the wave forms of the clips.

With these two examples, I get it. The second clip sounds much better. It's more open, less inhibited, punchier.

 

[yek]

The difference is audible but just sounds like a slightly different EQ curve. While Rex confirmed that this is basically a more accurate baseline from which to start, is there anything at all this process adds in order to achieve tones unachievable without a reference IR? Can I get further along with this system or is it just another means to the same end? If I can get better tones after going through the effort, that is very important to me and very much worth any trouble. Again, I'm not being combative, just trying to see if this is adding some intangibles.

Another means to the same end is acquiring the most neutral power amp available (expensive!) and using that to capture a pure ("clean") IR without undesirable coloration.

This new and easy method enables you to use regular equipment (any amp) without disadvantages. It doesn't require additional trouble, it's less trouble.

 

[erockomania]

Another means to the same end is acquiring the most neutral power amp available (expensive!) and using that to capture a pure ("clean") IR without undesirable coloration.

This new and easy method enables you to use regular equipment (any amp) without disadvantages. It doesn't require additional trouble, it's less trouble.

Or desirable coloration? I totally get that it's awesome for making IRs and that is obvious. Genius even. That makes complete sense. I'm not looking at it from that angle tho... I'm looking at it from the angle of tones. Can we get better tones or is it just another EQ curve we are compensating for (or NOT compensating for depending on the tones you are after). I'm totally looking forward to the onslaught of new IRs from folks that couldn't really make them before due to lack of the "right" gear

 

[Rex]

While Rex confirmed that this is basically a more accurate baseline from which to start, is there anything at all this process adds in order to achieve tones unachievable without a reference IR? Can I get further along with this syshtem or is it just another means to the same end?

If you know the impedance curve of the speaker in question, you can craft a string of EQs to approximate that effect. But you won't be able to nail it, in the same way that you can't really duplicate an IR using EQ.

If I can get better tones after going through the effort, that is very important to me...

This new method actually takes less effort than trying to dial in multiple EQs.

 

[erockomania]

You are not trying to capture the amp in this case, you are capturing the cab, the amp coloration makes that capture less accurate.

Yep, I was speaking in general to the "perfection" argument. Same would apply to a cab. Move the cab 3" to the left in the room it's being captured and it will sound different. There are a million variables.

 

[Speculum Speculorum]

Yek - I think erock's point here is that he feels the "goal" can be had with some simple adjustments to EQ, and he does not see how this new method is just so much better than simply adjusting an existing IR to taste. Assuming your cab positioning, mic'ing techniques, preamps, etc come into play, people are already going to be "coloring" their IR quite a bit if they want.

The way I see it is that people who want to shoot their own IRs will now be able to get quicker results that don't require corrective EQ. OK then.

 

[yek]

Or desirable coloration? I totally get that it's awesome for making IRs and that is obvious. Genius even. That makes complete sense. I'm not looking at it from that angle tho... I'm looking at it from the angle of tones. Can we get better tones or is it just another EQ curve we are compensating for (or NOT compensating for depending on the tones you are after). I'm totally looking forward to the onslaught of new IRs from folks that couldn't really make them before due to lack of the "right" gear

Cab Pack 6 gives you the choice. You can use the non-compensated or compensated versions (after Cab-Lab is released).

Personally I can't see, given the choice, why anyone would use the non-compensated ones. The Amp model already provides the coloration. Why and when would the non-essential, non-configurable coloration, baked in during the capture process, be desirable?

I can now use a $150 or less amp, to capture IRs, without worrying about the quality of the resulting IRs. No need to apply a reference IR afterwards: when shooting the IR the compensation is applied automatically and directly.

 

[barhrecords]

Personally I can't see, given the choice, why anyone would use the non-compensated ones. The Amp model already provides the coloration. Why and when would the non-essential, non-configurable coloration, baked in during the capture process, be desirable?

That was my point earlier, release the IR's already compensated and the reference IR's too for those few(?) that want non-compensated IR's.

 

[erockomania]

If you know the impedance curve of the speaker in question, you can craft a string of EQs to approximate that effect. But you won't be able to nail it, in the same way that you can't really duplicate an IR using EQ.



This new method actually takes less effort than trying to dial in multiple EQs.

Cool, thank you.

Why would impedance curves matter on a static IR(sorry if it seems like a dumb question)? Aren't we simply getting a different EQ curve to compensate for (or not)?

Also, takes less effort for "accuracy"(slippery slope), agreed. Most of the time I barely touch EQ when I'm tweaking. I pick an IR that works for me first. Many of the IRs I have were taken by a high end solid state amp that gives a VERY flat response. I tend to find them a little lifeless for what I'm after.