Taming the Monster - Leveling Presets Video with the Axe-FX II

[Scott Peterson]

Nikki - nicely summed up.

 

[krcassid]

What do you adjust in order to raise or lower the input and output to get unity gain?

My output Meter is coming up higher than my input. I am also running my input at 100 % (still doesn't tickle red with any of my guitars).

I think you definitely have a problem with your input levels. I have 2 LPs, a 59 and a 60, and both hit the red at 60%. The 59 has pretty low output pups as PAFs go. I have a number of Suhrs. The SCs are never an issue but the HBs all go red at 60%. Ive got a new Suhr coming in July that I ordered with DSVs so I had a bit more headroom on the guitar. So, I do think that something is amiss with your input levels on the HBs. If your Aldriches go to 100%, something is wrong.

 

[boltrecords]

I just emailed fractal support about it. I think I brought this question up in the forum before and someone from fractal told me that running it at 100% is fine. I didn't think anything of it. But I've noticed more and more people talking about hitting red. That's how it was with my ultra but not my II.
I hope I don't have to send it in. That would be a pain in the ass. Not to mention the cost to insure/ship something for 2500 bucks. Ouch!!

 

[Scott Peterson]

I think you definitely have a problem with your input levels. I have 2 LPs, a 59 and a 60, and both hit the red at 60%. The 59 has pretty low output pups as PAFs go. I have a number of Suhrs. The SCs are never an issue but the HBs all go red at 60%. Ive got a new Suhr coming in July that I ordered with DSVs so I had a bit more headroom on the guitar. So, I do think that something is amiss with your input levels on the HBs. If your Aldriches go to 100%, something is wrong.

I have my input at 40% as shown.

Via PM I've advised that he contact support. Something is amiss.

 

[Rex]

Here is what happens..

Where you may not really discern a difference at low volume, at "stage/live volume," those differences WILL become (very) apparent. I made this mistake (once), and it was not fun.

As Scott said, nicely summed up...

If you have a difference of "X" that seems minute at bedroom level, such difference will be multiplied as the level of amplification increases; what may be, say, a 0.2-2dB difference at 50dB could become a 3-6dB difference at 100dB.

...but it doesn't work that way. The decibel is a ratio (not a subtractive difference) between two power levels. If two signals differ from each other by 1 dB at a quiet level, they will still differ by 1 dB at a loud level.

 

[Scott Peterson]

As Scott said, nicely summed up...



...but it doesn't work that way. The decibel is a ratio (not a subtractive difference) between two power levels. If two signals differ from each other by 1 dB at a quiet level, they will still differ by 1 dB at a loud level.

True - but the point of this process is to remove that 1db difference before you get to the gig.

This process removes all the doubt, puts numbers in front of you so you can train your ears. After you've run the process a few times, you'll do this very fast.

I can say, with blunt honesty, it works.

 

[dkijc]

uh oh... I'm the same... I don't even touch red or maybe once every 100 strum with my Suhr.

Should I contact Fractal? Arghhh

In any case, thank you so much for the vid

 

[boltrecords]

uh oh... I'm the same... I don't even touch red or maybe once every 100 strum with my Suhr.

Should I contact Fractal? Arghhh

In any case, thank you so much for the vid

Are you at 100 percent though? I can't reach red if I tried

 

[dkijc]

Are you at 100 percent though? I can't reach red if I tried

When I'm hundred and on my bridge pickup (as the Wiki says "your hottest pickup") and strum the G chord, I can make it tickle a bit. Strange thing is I have a Tele with a Lollar Special T's and those are a bit hotter than my Suhrs but they also, I have to literally BITE into to strings as I strum to get it tickled. I hope it works out for you .. wait... for the both of us. Haha

 

[nikki-k]

...but it doesn't work that way. The decibel is a ratio (not a subtractive difference) between two power levels. If two signals differ from each other by 1 dB at a quiet level, they will still differ by 1 dB at a loud level.

Sorry- been fumbling all day... I meant to preface it with "perceived."
I was mulling over various comparatives, and while considering an inches vs miles one (appropriate or not as comparison, and if so.. how?), I wrote that, forgetting the "perceived" bit. My apologies.

 

[shasha]

My input levels are all over the place. Active pickups I'm down around 25, strat and tele maxed to barely tickle, my LP's are probably about 80-90 and my N4 is probably about 60. Actually that seems about right now that I think about it. It does make a big difference to me, if I forget to dial the levels it either sounds muddy or weak. Set them right and it's always a little party.

 

[boltrecords]

My input levels are all over the place. Active pickups I'm down around 25, strat and tele maxed to barely tickle, my LP's are probably about 80-90 and my N4 is probably about 60. Actually that seems about right now that I think about it. It does make a big difference to me, if I forget to dial the levels it either sounds muddy or weak. Set them right and it's always a little party.

Don't you just set it for the hottest pickup and Leave it?
How would you go about using different input settings for different guitars? Isn't it just a global setting that can only be set one way?

 

[krcassid]

uh oh... I'm the same... I don't even touch red or maybe once every 100 strum with my Suhr.

Should I contact Fractal? Arghhh

In any case, thank you so much for the vid

You know, after I posted above, I thought to myself: "output levels vary so dramatically..." I just rechecked my system. My input level is curently 69%. At that level, I tickle the red on (not hot) HBs and and am not even near on SCs. I don't have any really hot PUPS to try. I have SSH+ on my Suhr GG and it is OK (perhaps compression?). But, my 1960 LP is right on the edge. My 59 is OK. But, if I turned up to 100%...

So, here is my (very unscientific) test with level at 100. I am hitting the guitar pretty hard, all on bridge PUPs (trying to get max output):

1960 LP Standard (kind of a Jimmy Page guitar): pretty solidly in the red
Suhr GG SSH+: pretty solidly in the red
1959 Les Paul (very vintage lower output PAFs): tickling red
LP Jr (single P90): tickling red
Hamer Special w/ Fralin PAFs: tickling red
Suhr Classics & Teles all in yellow
Gretsch Falcons: Solidly in yellow

This is with output at 100%

At 69% (where I was) the hotter HBs tickle and everything else is yellow.

I don't know what this tells you. I would think the Aldriches would be hotter than my SSH+. But, Mahogany Vs Basswood? Set Neck vs Bolt on? There are a ton of variables here, not the least of which is that I am, by no means, a delicate player.

I don't think I'd be terribly concerned if you are not hitting red. I use killer cables, my guitars are typically maintained and set up to a "T". I have faily new strings on most guitars... Lotta room for variables here.

 

[Rex]

Sorry- been fumbling all day... I meant to preface it with "perceived."
I was mulling over various comparatives, and while considering an inches vs miles one (appropriate or not as comparison, and if so.. how?), I wrote that, forgetting the "perceived" bit. My apologies.

No apologies needed. You've posted in depth, hundreds of times. If that's the only technicality I can ding you on, you're doing great!

 

[krcassid]

My input levels are all over the place. Active pickups I'm down around 25, strat and tele maxed to barely tickle, my LP's are probably about 80-90 and my N4 is probably about 60. Actually that seems about right now that I think about it. It does make a big difference to me, if I forget to dial the levels it either sounds muddy or weak. Set them right and it's always a little party.

This is very interesting. I've always taken the approach of setting input levels for my hottest guitar. But, this leaves SCs and others well below optimal. And, what you say makes total sense. I mean, what is the use of creating an instrument with just the level of output you want (into a normal amp) and then dinging that level by 30% at the input of the Axe to accommodate your hottest guitar. This amounts to using a "reverse drive pedal" or attenuator on your lower output pups, right? I really need to explore this. The question is: how do you deal with this live as you change guitars? If input level was midi controllable, you could figure out something but it's not is it?

So, I'm totally buying Shasha's reasoning but struggling with how to implement in a live scenario.

Thoughts?

 

[Scott Peterson]

This is very interesting. I've always taken the approach of setting input levels for my hottest guitar. But, this leaves SCs and others well below optimal. And, what you say makes total sense. I mean, what is the use of creating an instrument with just the level of output you want (into a normal amp) and then dinging that level by 30% at the input of the Axe to accommodate your hottest guitar. This amounts to using a "reverse drive pedal" or attenuator on your lower output pups, right? I really need to explore this. The question is: how do you deal with this live as you change guitars? If input level was midi controllable, you could figure out something but it's not is it?

So, I'm totally buying Shasha's reasoning but struggling with how to implement in a live scenario.

Thoughts?

With guitars of varying output levels, I just adjust the A/D levels to compensate. When I was gigging with guitars that had different levels of input, I had a piece of tape with the proper levels above the Axe_FX in my rack and adjusted as needed as I went. Inelegant, but worth it IMHO.

My main gigging guitars now are setup so I have no need to adjust between them.

 

[barhrecords]

Great vid Scott!

@iPhone/iPad, the builtin microphones and the 1/8" audio in both have a non-defeatable high-pass filter that is pretty up there, IIR 250hz? I use StudioSixDigital's SPL meter but if you have a lot of 250 or below in your preset, the app SPL meters will be whack. For professional measurement, the docking port is the way to go. The camera kit has a breakout audio in, or there are niche companies that make audio interfaces for the docking port.

One thing I caught from the vid that might have gotten past some folks is that you are leaving a specific amount of headroom.

This headroom is needed for all the level boosts you do during the show, kick in a drive, boost, etc.

So you should probably check your presets with all your boosts, drives, level changers etc. all on, just to be sure you left the correct amount of headroom to not clip.

Richard

 

[Scott Peterson]

Great vid Scott!

@iPhone/iPad, the builtin microphones and the 1/8" audio in both have a non-defeatable high-pass filter that is pretty up there, IIR 250hz? I use StudioSixDigital's SPL meter but if you have a lot of 250 or below in your preset, the app SPL meters will be whack. For professional measurement, the docking port is the way to go. The camera kit has a breakout audio in, or there are niche companies that make audio interfaces for the docking port.

One thing I caught from the vid that might have gotten past some folks is that you are leaving a specific amount of headroom.

This headroom is needed for all the level boosts you do during the show, kick in a drive, boost, etc.

So you should probably check your presets with all your boosts, drives, level changers etc. all on, just to be sure you left the correct amount of headroom to not clip.

Richard

Richard,

Good points and you are 100% correct. That's why I'm not jacking up the output of the clean 'baseline' output. You need headroom, clipping is the enemy. Turn everything on to check you are NOT clipping the output. Essential.

 

[dkijc]

I don't think I'd be terribly concerned if you are not hitting red. I use killer cables, my guitars are typically maintained and set up to a "T". I have faily new strings on most guitars... Lotta room for variables here.

I wish I can have a HB pups with me to try this so I don't go insane. Until then I'll rock on with my Suhr Classic gladly hitting the yellows. Lol

Cheers!

 

[BMH]

I will run through this after work, but thanks Scott. I am having issues with my 30 presets, all of which I use, being all at correct relative live volume. I particularly have a problem getting my lead presets loud enough. Annoying as heck to me, but as you say, I don't have a process ... I tweak randomly now.