Fletcher Munson nightmare :(

Just experience will tell. I have a preset that I spent some time creating it but playing in a big event it sounded too bassy and had to rely on another one with less bass during the whole gig. I have good audio monitors but it's different, in most of cases FOH aren't really well aligned or they like to add some bass for pumping up the house.
I've found a Global EQ curve that works for me that I spent 3 or 4 days to settle it during in a small tour while the sound was still fresh in my ears night after night so I could recall how I was sounding last night and how I could cut through the mix better playing live
 
It's not just about volume. The size and response of the room you're in makes a huge difference too. There's no real substitute for final tweaking of things at gig level at the venue itself. Try playing an outdoor gig with no walls nearby for reflections. Your carefully crafted tone can disappear into the open air like a fart in the wind. If you try to dial things in there and your next gig is at a small concrete walled basement bar, the results will be drastically different. There's no one step solution that will work for every venue.
 
Doesn’t matter when the drummer starts to play! Also depends if it’s an empty or full venue! Don’t sweat it! Enjoy the performance! The sound is what it is. Do not obsess compulsively in disorderly manner.
 
This is a cool idea. While not the same, Pro-Q offers an auto-gain mode so you can EQ without being fooled by extra loudness.

I could see Fractal offering that in the PEQ block without it getting too complicated. It of course is only an approximation, but it works pretty well to my ear and keeps me from boosting too much. I suppose that’s why many engineers say to only do cuts instead of boosts.

Solving the fletcher munson effect is likely beyond what Fractal should implement, but I do really think it’s a great idea.
 
tysonlt said:
The loud switch AFAIK would just put a fixed boost on bass and treble - bit of a blunt instrument.
Click to expand...
Yup. The Loudness switch on old stereos was just a bass boost. Sometimes a treble boost, too. At high volume, it was just obnoxious. But a lot of bros thought it was cool. “Listen to all that bass!”
 
mr_fender said:
It's not just about volume. The size and response of the room you're in makes a huge difference too. There's no real substitute for final tweaking of things at gig level at the venue itself. Try playing an outdoor gig with no walls nearby for reflections. Your carefully crafted tone can disappear into the open air like a fart in the wind. If you try to dial things in there and your next gig is at a small concrete walled basement bar, the results will be drastically different. There's no one step solution that will work for every venue.
Click to expand...

Exactly. That is the reason why an automatic Fletcher Munson correction is not feasible. It depends on many unpredictable factors, like the size and acoustic characteristics of the venue.

1739692527233.jpeg
 
Note nobody with a tube amp ever complained about this.
I think the reason why is the usual way to control the volume on both is quite different in character so because of that people find excuses when they would be better off looking at this first.
Try getting your favourite model set up with no fx at reasonable volume.
Now go in to the amp block and turn it down with the authentic volume in the block, same as on the amp.
This in my experience is the most common reason for not having a similar experience to a real amp.
This and my usual complaints about frfr being mostly poor at reproducing the experience of amps.
 
Andy Eagle said:
Note nobody with a tube amp ever complained about this.
I think the reason why is the usual way to control the volume on both is quite different in character so because of that people find excuses when they would be better off looking at this first.
Try getting your favourite model set up with no fx at reasonable volume.
Now go in to the amp block and turn it down with the authentic volume in the block, same as on the amp.
This in my experience is the most common reason for not having a similar experience to a real amp.
This and my usual complaints about frfr being mostly poor at reproducing the experience of amps.
Click to expand...

Tube amps have the opposite problem: they sound anemic at low volumes.
 
Piing said:
That is the reason why an automatic Fletcher Munson correction is not feasible
Click to expand...
It should be feasible, but maybe efforts are not worth it.
Like Bose systems tune themselves to the room, there should be a way to slap a certain mic to the device, run a few sweeps, adjust output eq automatically to match certain curve.
But as others already mentioned, everyone better learn how eq works, will be useful in every situation, not just adjusting for a gig.
 
Andy Eagle said:
Note nobody with a tube amp ever complained about this.
I think the reason why is the usual way to control the volume on both is quite different in character so because of that people find excuses when they would be better off looking at this first.
Try getting your favourite model set up with no fx at reasonable volume.
Now go in to the amp block and turn it down with the authentic volume in the block, same as on the amp.
This in my experience is the most common reason for not having a similar experience to a real amp.
This and my usual complaints about frfr being mostly poor at reproducing the experience of amps.
Click to expand...
Agreed, on a tube amp simple settings are used on the fly to adjust the tone per gig. I think, using this same approach with keeping it simple on the axe by adjusting volume and tone controls on the main amp block to achieve the desired tone for that night is the best approach. Folks don’t have hours right before a gig to make things perfect for each night.
 
Piing said:
Tube amps have the opposite problem: they sound anemic at low volumes.
Click to expand...

Andy Eagle said:
But everyone is used to that.
Click to expand...
But that is precisely the problem. Tube amps sound anemic at low volumes because of F-M.

People dial in modelers at low volumes and (usually unwittingly) compensate for F-M. Then when they turn up at a gig the lows are boomy and the highs are piercing.

Tube amps are voiced for gig volumes. Therefore it is logical to dial in your presets at gig volume.
 
tysonlt said:
Final block in my preset is always a para EQ, and I have high pass and low pass mapped to perform knobs. I’ve resigned myself to the fact that my presets at home will always have too much bass, treble, and somehow always too much gain
Click to expand...
yeah, gain is the other issue. the added volume always makes it feel like there's more. i like the idea of para eq with high and low shelves mapped to performance controls, maybe amp gain could be another. if you get time at soundcheck it should be easy to get it spot on. i've been doing this so long now, i can dial them in at home and have them sound right at gigs about 80% of the time. i used to have two footswitches mapped to preset level + and - 1db, but i found i didn't need them any more after i figured out how to level match at home. having good monitoring (with a sub) and a some experience is really the key. if you can audition them at gig level, even better, buy i know that's not possible for many people.
 
simeon said:
yeah, gain is the other issue. the added volume always makes it feel like there's more. i like the idea of para eq with high and low shelves mapped to performance controls, maybe amp gain could be another. if you get time at soundcheck it should be easy to get it spot on. i've been doing this so long now, i can dial them in at home and have them sound right at gigs about 80% of the time. i used to have two footswitches mapped to preset level + and - 1db, but i found i didn't need them any more after i figured out how to level match at home. having good monitoring (with a sub) and a some experience is really the key. if you can audition them at gig level, even better, buy i know that's not possible for many people.
Click to expand...
High and low cut shelves, in the performance pages, is a great idea! I'll give that a go.
 
simeon said:
i like the idea of para eq with high and low shelves mapped to performance controls, maybe amp gain could be another.
Click to expand...
I have one stripped down preset with a favorite amp and cab that has the global Out 1 and 2 PEQ high and low frequency points in the Performance controls so I can adjust the shelf points. I use it to set up the overall sound of the modeler before sound check.

My Global Performance controls has the Amp’s gain control so it’s always available too. I use that to help adjust for different guitars.

PS - The preset is <--there.
 
Last edited:
Over the last few years, my response to “help dialling it in” is always this:

  • dial in at the volume you’ll be playing at
  • dial in With The Group even if you have to schedule an extra session
  • with FAS, you have perform pages so use them
  • the goal of good tone is to make the act sound great, not just you. Great guitar tone and bad band tone is just bad band tone.
 
FractalAudio said:
But that is precisely the problem. Tube amps sound anemic at low volumes because of F-M.

People dial in modelers at low volumes and (usually unwittingly) compensate for F-M. Then when they turn up at a gig the lows are boomy and the highs are piercing.

Tube amps are voiced for gig volumes. Therefore it is logical to dial in your presets at gig volume.
Click to expand...
I totally agree with this. You should always make a patch at the volume you intend to use it at.
I was pointing out that there is more than FM going on with the way people are used to hearing their rig and what happens when you change the volume. This is also a big part of why amp in the room is so difficult for digital.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom