IRs York Audio Master Thread - Newest Cab Pack: KW 412 M25-SH

Third-party impulse response pack
Polluxx said:
I expressed myself incorrectly,
I know the microphones, they're both 57m 121 I'd just like to know what Justin did differently with them, whether it was deliberate or a coincidence, and what I like about them.
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I'm sure its slightly differenct mic positions. I'm also sure its deliberate. I doubt he will tell you exactly because he most likely uses years of expierience and has methods/secrets.
 
Polluxx said:
What is the difference between mix 01 and mix 02 in the
MES 412 OS-V2 pack?

I ask because sometimes i like mix 01 equally or more
And other day vice versa.

What's going on with the two versions?
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It depends on the pack... they're all captured differently and there are no copy/paste "Mix recipes." For a lot of packs, Mix 01 is my favorite 57-121 blend and Mix 02 is for when I want something with a little more edge in the top end. Sometimes I'll end up liking two 57-121 Mixes and just include both because the character of one sounds great with one guitar and one sounds great with a different guitar.
 
York Audio said:
It depends on the pack... they're all captured differently and there are no copy/paste "Mix recipes." For a lot of packs, Mix 01 is my favorite 57-121 blend and Mix 02 is for when I want something with a little more edge in the top end. Sometimes I'll end up liking two 57-121 Mixes and just include both because the character of one sounds great with one guitar and one sounds great with a different guitar.
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Ok thank you Justin, i love this pack and i think I prefer mix 01 too but 02 is also good for lead tones.
Set Impendance curve to recto large
 
York Audio said:
I tweak tones through studio monitors first to get a feel for what it will sound like through the PA. Then, I create an EQ curve for my in-ears to make my personal listening source more neutral and give it to our monitor guy to put on my while mix so I'm hearing the band more accurately too.

I used a 2 Amp/2 Cab set up for clean and dirty amps; panning the cab blocks hard left and right through Output 1 so FOH would have independent control over both amps.

I would switch up my IRs from tour to tour, but always used one IR for all of my dirty tones (Mesa OS), one primary IR for most cleans (usually the AC30), and occasionally one alternate Deluxe Reverb IR for grittier tones (on the clean amp).

Sometimes I'd use a Mix and sometimes I'd use a single mic. The Mix was whichever one felt the best. It could be a 57-121, 57-421, 57-160, 58-160, SM7-160, etc. A single mic was usually a 57, 58, or SM7.
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I kind of missed this, but this is really cool to hear about! I’m intrigued with this!

I hope I’m not bugging you, but I have questions :)
As far as the 2 amp/2 cab setup, were you going mono for each tone? I assume it was one tone at a time and not blended? Also, would you switch between an AC30 and your dirty tone within the same song?

Also, was it difficult to use for example an AC30 and Celestion Blue IR for cleans, but then jump over to a dirty amp with a 412 Mesa OS? I always have trouble getting stuff like that to work because the frequency responses seem so different and quite drastic. And also throwing in the occasional Deluxe Reverb.. How did you manage to have them all work well together like that?
 
Thenewexhibit said:
I kind of missed this, but this is really cool to hear about! I’m intrigued with this!

I hope I’m not bugging you, but I have questions :)
As far as the 2 amp/2 cab setup, were you going mono for each tone? I assume it was one tone at a time and not blended? Also, would you switch between an AC30 and your dirty tone within the same song?

Also, was it difficult to use for example an AC30 and Celestion Blue IR for cleans, but then jump over to a dirty amp with a 412 Mesa OS? I always have trouble getting stuff like that to work because the frequency responses seem so different and quite drastic. And also throwing in the occasional Deluxe Reverb.. How did you manage to have them all work well together like that?
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Yes, my tones were always mono. I'm not a big fan of stereo effects since they only sound good when a guitar is panned in the center and you're listening dead center between the left and right speakers, which very few audience members are in that position. The amps were never blended, so it was only my clean amp or my dirty amp at any given time. And yes, I would switch between the clean and dirty amps several times within a single song for most of our catalog.

It wasn't hard transitioning to Fractal and dialing in those tones because I was already used to using a real AC30 for clean and a Marshall through a Mesa OS for dirty in my live rig. Once I had good IRs of those cabs, I pretty much used my same amp settings and it immediately sounded familiar. Later on, I toggled between the AC30 and a Deluxe Reverb model through my clean channel while still keeping the Marshall/Mesa for my dirty tone. The frequency responses between those three amps SHOULD sound wildly different, but you just tweak them to fit the context of the band and the songs you're playing. Trust your ears... they know what they want to hear. :)
 
Trying to dial in a Deluxe Reverb Tone with a 335 for Nashville style power chord rhythms. Deluxe Normal or Vibrato? Push the amp only, or use a Nobels? Use a different drive? What kind of amp settings and headroom levels? Which YA DXVB's? Having a tough time getting smooth but present tones. I'd love to hear some thoughts!
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Trying to dial in a Deluxe Reverb Tone with a 335 for Nashville style power chord rhythms. Deluxe Normal or Vibrato? Push the amp only, or use a Nobels? Use a different drive? What kind of amp settings and headroom levels? Which YA DXVB's? Having a tough time getting smooth but present tones. I'd love to hear some thoughts!
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Do you have song I could hear for a tonal reference?
 
York Audio said:
Do you have song I could hear for a tonal reference?
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Hey, Justin! Thanks for the reply, and sorry for the late reply. Busy week! I don’t have any references off the top of my head; I’ll look for some, but I feel like most modern country tone for rhythm has a similar familiar sound that I was struggling to get. I know those guys use vox style amps too, but I also know Deluxe reverbs (or similar Fenders) and Nobles seem to be a popular combination in that session guy type tone, but for all I know it’s tele’s in a lot of those tones.

That being said, guys like Tom Buckovac and Tim Pierce would be some references. I feel like their tones with 335 style guitars (or even with Les Paul style guitars with Tim Pierce) are always jangly and clear and open, but yet smooth with the overdrive. You achieve this as well with your tones; fantastic tones; like as if every frequency is somehow present, and the high end, while clear and cutting and open as it is, is somehow contained in this forgiving balloon that holds all frequencies evenly in place, but I feel like my tones always sound more raw, gritty, gravely, and scratchy. Could be my Gibson 335; it has stock MHS pickups in it, but I don’t know that that’s the sole reason for why I’m not achieving what I’m looking for.
I already tracked the parts and it sounds good and works for the mix, but never quite arriving at the tone in my head. It could be my picking too; I find I dig in quite hard and it seems to make the tone, well, harder haha so I try to use a medium pick like a .73, and that tends to help; almost like natural compression, but still struggling to get the tone I’m looking for in my head.
 
Polluxx said:
Many People combine this one with AC-20

https://www.yorkaudio.co/product-page/vx30-212-blue

You can also try this one for 1 Buck

https://www.yorkaudio.co/product-page/mes-212-v30-limited

I personally prefer the Mesa
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Got ya! I’ll have to try the Vox 212 Blue out with that! I actually am using the Mesa 212 and that’s been my go to. I tried the York Creamback IRs; only the mixes, but they seem a little boomy with that amp. I’m not sure if this is anyone else’s experience with the York Creamback IRs with this amp or not. Have you tried those with the AC20?
 
Polluxx said:
At first I liked the Creambacks until I realized that they sound pretty muddy, you probably call it boomy.
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Got ya! I would agree that muddy would be a better word to use. I’m just trying to see if people have similar experiences as me. I know there are internal parameters you can adjust; even the ideal settings, but I like to try and do simple approaches like Justin and just dial in the amp with a cab instead of trying to force something to sound different than it actually is. That’s good to know that’s not only my experience with the Creamback pack and the AC20. It must not be the best fit for each other.
 
My York Audio journey has been quite interesting. I'm usually a 'one cab pack for all the amps' kind of guy, with sounds ranging from classic Blackface clean, to cranked Hendrix-esque Blackface rhythm sounds and modern rock lead tones with the likes of Bogner or Mesa Mark-style amps.

The first pack I fell in love with was the M20 back in the day, followed by the VH20. This was my Greenback era, and then I started to develop an appreciation for the more refined Vintage 30-based cabs in my IR collection, and switched to the MES 212 V30, and stuck with it for quite a while. Then the MV30 came out, and the MV30a speaker took over and was my go-to for about a year. This year though, I've returned to the MES 212 V30, and find it to be the most refined and balanced of all the Vintage 30-based cab packs in the York stable.
 
Thenewexhibit said:
Got ya! I would agree that muddy would be a better word to use. I’m just trying to see if people have similar experiences as me. I know there are internal parameters you can adjust; even the ideal settings, but I like to try and do simple approaches like Justin and just dial in the amp with a cab instead of trying to force something to sound different than it actually is. That’s good to know that’s not only my experience with the Creamback pack and the AC20. It must not be the best fit for each other.
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I would call the M65s "warm" rather than "muddy." The AC20 doesn't have a tone controls aside from a high cut, so if you need something brighter for that amp, I would try a single 58 or single 57m IR.

Personally, my favorite Class-A style amp in the Fractal is the Matchbox D-30. I set it just like my old AC30s with Bass around 3.5-4, Treble between 5.5-6.5, High Cut OFF, and Gain (volume on the amp) to taste. Keep the Master Volume on 10.

That amp gives you the attack and chime of a great Class-A amp with beautiful harmonics. It might be worth trying unless you're married to the AC20.

Phosphenetre said:
My York Audio journey has been quite interesting. I'm usually a 'one cab pack for all the amps' kind of guy, with sounds ranging from classic Blackface clean, to cranked Hendrix-esque Blackface rhythm sounds and modern rock lead tones with the likes of Bogner or Mesa Mark-style amps.

The first pack I fell in love with was the M20 back in the day, followed by the VH20. This was my Greenback era, and then I started to develop an appreciation for the more refined Vintage 30-based cabs in my IR collection, and switched to the MES 212 V30, and stuck with it for quite a while. Then the MV30 came out, and the MV30a speaker took over and was my go-to for about a year. This year though, I've returned to the MES 212 V30, and find it to be the most refined and balanced of all the Vintage 30-based cab packs in the York stable.
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I love this. And yup, that particular Mesa 2x12 is really special. 4x12s tend to have more cabinet character and 2x12s tend to be a little more neutral in that area with more emphasis on the character of the speaker. I like them both and keep being surprised by cool tones using unlikely pairings. I'm actually working on a song right now using a Matchless and just threw up my default IR preset in Libra. It sounded amazing, so I checked the plugin to see what the IR was... it was the MES 412 OS-V2 Mix 01. Who would have thought that cab would pair so well with a Matchless? Maybe I'll try the Mesa 2x12 as well just for kicks.
 
York Audio said:
I would call the M65s "warm" rather than "muddy." The AC20 doesn't have a tone controls aside from a high cut, so if you need something brighter for that amp, I would try a single 58 or single 57m IR.

Personally, my favorite Class-A style amp in the Fractal is the Matchbox D-30. I set it just like my old AC30s with Bass around 3.5-4, Treble between 5.5-6.5, High Cut OFF, and Gain (volume on the amp) to taste. Keep the Master Volume on 10.

That amp gives you the attack and chime of a great Class-A amp with beautiful harmonics. It might be worth trying unless you're married to the AC20.
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That's very timely that you replied to this in regards to the DC-30 because I just put up a new post in the Axe iii forum about this amp and how I struggle with it haha

Also, I know "muddy" can sound negative, so I hope you don't think I'm poo pooing on that creamback pack. I've used it for many things, but it just seems like for the AC-20, it doesn't pair well without either getting peaky, or just blankety sounding, which I assume not all amps are a good pair for every cab. I can try some single captures though and see. I'm also not married to the AC-20 either, especially now that gapless switching has been implemented; it just seems like one of the only Class A amps that can actually handle an array of tones from clean to tight modern high gain.

That being said, I'm very curious about what kind of guitar and pickups you're using with the DC-30 and what kind of tones you are going for? Also, leaving the master on 10 for me always results in the tone becoming like a bit crusher, but maybe I'm trying to make the amp into something it was never intended for. At the time when gapless switching didn't exist, I was looking for a pedal platform amp that could do everything from clean to edge of breakup to crunch to even tight modern high gain, and that one (the AC-20 Treble) seemed to take all pedals the best, whereas the DC-30 seems mega picky, so that's why I'm surprised when I hear people say that the D-30 is a great pedal platform because I just find it to completely fall apart, so I'm wondering what I'm missing or doing wrong.

It's interesting too; you mention the Matchless (DC-30 I assume?) to sound great with the Mesa OS on mix 1, and I immediately think "How???" hahah not denying it does because I know if I heard the tone you were getting with it, I would go "HOW??????" hahahahha That being said, how are you dialing that amp in? Are you adjusting the impedance curve to that as well? What type of tone are you going for and what guitar/pickups etc.? Perhaps I'm just trying to make the DC-30 do something it was never intended for, so I'd love to hear more about this. I know the DC-30 was big with Praise and Worship tones too and they tend to stack drives, so I'm wondering how that's feasible without things turning into a bit crusher or bottoming out when on the neck pickup. I find it difficult to get great chime and attack with that amp. It generally sounds and feels stiff, dry, and murky/loose in the low end. The only thing I've found that helped was by turning the master down, which is why I'm surprised to hear how many people leave the master on 10. I'm just ranting now haha but since you know the amp well, I'd love to hear about these tones you're getting and for what style, and more insight on what the DC-30 can and can't do.
 
Also, on another note, have you ever considered doing an AC30 cab pack that has Greenbacks in it?? I have one of the handwired AC30's with Greenbacks, and they are a little more rude in a rock n' roll kind of way. Could be cool! Unless, the matchless pack with the greenback would be very similar, but not sure how that would be since there is another speaker interacting and a different amp altogether?
 
Thenewexhibit said:
That's very timely that you replied to this in regards to the DC-30 because I just put up a new post in the Axe iii forum about this amp and how I struggle with it haha

Also, I know "muddy" can sound negative, so I hope you don't think I'm poo pooing on that creamback pack. I've used it for many things, but it just seems like for the AC-20, it doesn't pair well without either getting peaky, or just blankety sounding, which I assume not all amps are a good pair for every cab. I can try some single captures though and see. I'm also not married to the AC-20 either, especially now that gapless switching has been implemented; it just seems like one of the only Class A amps that can actually handle an array of tones from clean to tight modern high gain.

That being said, I'm very curious about what kind of guitar and pickups you're using with the DC-30 and what kind of tones you are going for? Also, leaving the master on 10 for me always results in the tone becoming like a bit crusher, but maybe I'm trying to make the amp into something it was never intended for. At the time when gapless switching didn't exist, I was looking for a pedal platform amp that could do everything from clean to edge of breakup to crunch to even tight modern high gain, and that one (the AC-20 Treble) seemed to take all pedals the best, whereas the DC-30 seems mega picky, so that's why I'm surprised when I hear people say that the D-30 is a great pedal platform because I just find it to completely fall apart, so I'm wondering what I'm missing or doing wrong.

It's interesting too; you mention the Matchless (DC-30 I assume?) to sound great with the Mesa OS on mix 1, and I immediately think "How???" hahah not denying it does because I know if I heard the tone you were getting with it, I would go "HOW??????" hahahahha That being said, how are you dialing that amp in? Are you adjusting the impedance curve to that as well? What type of tone are you going for and what guitar/pickups etc.? Perhaps I'm just trying to make the DC-30 do something it was never intended for, so I'd love to hear more about this. I know the DC-30 was big with Praise and Worship tones too and they tend to stack drives, so I'm wondering how that's feasible without things turning into a bit crusher or bottoming out when on the neck pickup. I find it difficult to get great chime and attack with that amp. It generally sounds and feels stiff, dry, and murky/loose in the low end. The only thing I've found that helped was by turning the master down, which is why I'm surprised to hear how many people leave the master on 10. I'm just ranting now haha but since you know the amp well, I'd love to hear about these tones you're getting and for what style, and more insight on what the DC-30 can and can't do.
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A real Matchless C-30 (DC-30 is the combo and HC-30 is the head, mine is an original C-30 head from '93) is a wildly versatile amp. I can get sparkling clean tones, gritty EoB, rude mid-gain, and some unexpectedly incredible high gain tones my metal-producing friend is obsessed with. I've only compared it to the model with clean and EoB tones so far, but will try the higher gain stuff when I get a chance.

Have you updated to the new 27.00 beta FW? It brings back the "snap" and feels a lot more like my amp now and fixes some of the characteristics you mentioned.

For the tone I talked about, I'm using an '88 Jazzmaster with Curtis Novak pickups for a gritty/cleanish thing on the neck pickup. I always dial in Class-A amps by starting with the settings I mentioned above, adjusting gain to taste, and then fine-tuning the Bass and Treble controls for the guitar I'm using. A Tele can sound massive through that amp. So can a Les Paul, but I have to lower the bass to keep it from getting too loose at higher gain levels.

Your tone will fall apart if you're using higher output pickups. If you are, try using the amp's input EQ and start bringing up the low cut to get rid of the stuff that's pushing the amp too hard (try this for the AC20 as well). I have to tweak a lot more to get a great tone when a humbucker's output is north of about 8.5k, so mine are typically around the 8.2k area in order to retain clarity while making things aggressive.

As far as the Greenback AC30 goes, I have one, but haven't gotten around to capturing IRs of it yet.
 
York Audio said:
As far as the Greenback AC30 goes, I have one, but haven't gotten around to capturing IRs of it yet.
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Puss In Boots Please GIF by Laff
 
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