With the news of overseas assembly...

[wcfieldskx]

Are you implying the AX8's that were assembled in the US are going to be worth more?

Let's see how the reliability of these new units are first

 

[artzeal]

I was just wondering how many people who have posted have a USA made Apple product.............just saying

Naaahhh, sold the Newton years ago. An iPad is much better.

This outsourcing thing has gotten out of hand ever since China opened the Silk Road a couple millennia ago. What are ya gonna do? The best you can for your customers and employees, and make sure the cat bowl is full.

The intellectual property is FAS's greatest asset: Plus the Yankee ingenuity.

 

[mr_fender]

I'd wager that the vast majority of the components used in Fractal products have always been made overseas. Since final QA/QC is still done here, I seriously doubt there will be any difference at all in the final products whatsoever. If there is, FAS will make it right. Asia dominates the electronics component industry and has for years. Lemons can sneak their way out of any factory, no matter where it is located. It happens. People make mistakes. The idea that something will be higher quality simply because the work is done in a particular part of the world is just ignorant. There are hard working, talented people everywhere, just like there are lazy, stupid people everywhere. Accountability and tight QC is what makes the difference.

 

[Stratman68]

Funny I have never heard of a American USA manufacture moving operations to China, Mexico, or any other country in order to improve quality. It is always over cutting cost. At best they hope to keep the quality but that eventually adds to cost. Haiti might be a good place for manufacturing since their labor would be real low right now.

Fractal is just following what all the other manufactures have felt forced to do, so they are not necessarily to blame. We have a manufacturing problem in the USA and it does not look like there is any relief coming. I have family members that lost jobs due production moves out of country so its a little more personal, along with living in a large military community we seem to be more sensitive towards these things.

Fractal is not a huge corporation, so their motivation, is different tha the big guys. Would bringing back minimum wage factory jobs really help the average family man? I do not think so. And if some get there way there will be no minimum wage anyhow.
I also don't think the majority of the companies were "forced" to move overseas. They saw the HUGE labor savings (which is not just the hourly wage) I mean the big corporations. It's about shareholders, stocks and the country club. Taxes are BS. The labor savings are the big #.

 

[Stratman68]

I'd wager that the vast majority of the components used in Fractal products have always been made overseas. Since final QA/QC is still done here, I seriously doubt there will be any difference at all in the final products whatsoever. If there is, FAS will make it right. Asia dominates the electronics component industry and has for years. Lemons can sneak their way out of any factory, no matter where it is located. It happens. People make mistakes. The idea that something will be higher quality simply because the work is done in a particular part of the world is just ignorant. There are hard working, talented people everywhere, just like there are lazy, stupid people everywhere. Accountability and tight QC is what makes the difference.

Yes and no.....Average wages of factory workers in China is 1/10 that of a US worker. They also work longer hours and in much harsher environments. So?

Not sure about same quality. If all owners were as dedicated and invested in quality like FAS is, that would be a different story. But the fractal type companies have been far and in between in my 30+ year musical career.
Yes I am a fan...................

 

[pat6969]

Are you implying the AX8's that were assembled in the US are going to be worth more?

Lots of people care where a product is made and will pay more for it, it's that simple. If I was a betting man I'd put money on people listing it as MIA or buyers asking. Should be fun.

 

[Sixstring]

Lots of people care where a product is made and will pay more for it, it's that simple. If I was a betting man I'd put money on people listing it as MIA or buyers asking. Should be fun.

I'm sure that will be the case I just think it's funny how it all works out that way, but in retrospect it is the truth! the units that were assembled in the US had an additional cost so the claim does have merit. If that's the case then the MIA units should bring an extra $100 to those that care enough to pay for it.

 

[pat6969]

I'm sure that will be the case I just think it's funny how it all works out that way, but in retrospect it is the truth! the units that were assembled in the US had an additional cost so the claim does have merit. If that's the case then the MIA units should bring an extra $100 to those that care enough to pay for it.

Judging by how fickle a lot of gear hounds are I wouldn't be surprised if it brings more.

 

[Knobs McGee]

So, I'm a little confused about this issue. Has Fractal already started producing gear overseas? There's still a "Made In USA" star at the bottom of the home page.

Besides the fiscal down-side of, yet another US company, switching to overseas manufacturing, I don't see any way that Fractal could maintain the impeccable build quality that we currently enjoy. This is not plastic widget, it's a VERY high-tech piece of gear.

On average, I'd estimate that 15 to 20 percent of the electronics I've purchased in the past 10 years has had some sort of defect. A company can spec what they want with an overseas manufacturer but without direct control of parts sourcing and a well trained, skilled work-force, there's going to be less consistent build quality. I see very few complaints in the Fractal community about defective units. Such a low failure rate is very rare now days, especially with cutting edge gear.

Some large companies like Fender and Taylor have been able to work around this (to a degree) by building their own factories outside of the US but I doubt that Fractal has the means to do this.

If Fractal starts having this fine equipment built in the same factory that also pumps out microwave ovens and the latest Line 6 product, customers may be able to save a few hundred bucks but quality will suffer. It's a slippery slope.

I had considered buying a Matrix. It certainly has some hardware advantages over the AX8. Two of the main reasons I went with Fractal...an intelligent and supportive forum (kudos to you all) and the fact that, at least final assembly and testing are done in the same house that designed it (I assumed).

Ultimately, the American consumer is to blame for the giant manufacturing exodus. We vote with our wallets!

My two cents.

 

[Jeries]

China can make cheap junk... or China could do amazing stuff-
And most companies cut corners and save the money and don't care.

I know Fractal is not the kind of company to be greedy over quality. Never.

No one complained when the G-System came out that it was $1500+ and made in China....

...and... it could still work after being run over by a tank

 

[dr bonkers]

I have worked in manufacturing & sourcing as a day gig for almost 18 years.

Made in USA is one of the most confusing terms ever floated about.

Usually it does not mean 100% of the raw materials and components were also made in USA. Just look at the foreign sourced components of a Made in USA car if you bought one new and looked at the percentages on the options sticker. Or look up the components in that US Corporation computer to see how much of it is made overseas. It's just a fact of life.

Remember Kramer with their Made in USA guitars that were mostly made in Japan and then assembled in Neptune, NJ as another example?

There are certain components that cost twice as much or more if the USA produces them and sometimes not even at a discernable difference in quality (sometimes the USA quality is lower). There are other components that simply cannot be bought int he US. If you are buying the components overseas anyways, sometimes it makes more sense from a cost-benefit analysis to assemble the whole unit over there if there is no discernible qualitative difference to assembling it here.

The key to any manufacturing pursuit is true 100% QA in the USA by committed people, not random sampling by a bunch of clock watchers, like a lot of other manufacturers do, and that includes a lot of Made in USA manufacturers.

Regarding the stereotype of the Asian sweatshop, that is a type of business that bottom feeders in an industry use, not most top of line companies. Sweatshops do not produce good quality; only places where the workers are paid well in terms of relative wage put out good product. Most companies in Asia realize that dynamic in this day and age, otherwise they end up losing the good workers to competitors with better working conditions.

@FractalAudio rocks! Cliff does not put out subpar product.

Think of it this way, if there really was a discernable quality difference, wouldn't Apple be the first company with their enormous cash reserves to make a product in the USA if they could get a better quality product than they currently get out of FoxConn?

 

[mr_fender]

Exactly. Not every factory in China is some dirt floor shack filled with kids in rags using asbestos and lead tools. Sweatshops do exist unfortunately, but they are most certainly not going to be churning out precision high end electronics. Those dirt cheap Old Navy clothes on the other hand...

 

[BigRalphN]

Price drops are great for sure, but I sure hate to see anything outsourced to another country! Sure doesn't help the US economy!

I agree 100% here. USA was one thing that set them apart from Line 6 and others. I hate it when corporations outsource. The price drop is nice, but I have Never seen quality remain the same when moved to China. Korea yes, China no. Just look at the quality issue returns for other products made there What it will mean though is in time they will not run out if stock and their profits will increase.

 

[bustedstring]

So, I'm a little confused about this issue. Has Fractal already started producing gear overseas? There's still a "Made In USA" star at the bottom of the home page.

Besides the fiscal down-side of, yet another US company, switching to overseas manufacturing, I don't see any way that Fractal could maintain the impeccable build quality that we currently enjoy. This is not plastic widget, it's a VERY high-tech piece of gear.

On average, I'd estimate that 15 to 20 percent of the electronics I've purchased in the past 10 years has had some sort of defect. A company can spec what they want with an overseas manufacturer but without direct control of parts sourcing and a well trained, skilled work-force, there's going to be less consistent build quality. I see very few complaints in the Fractal community about defective units. Such a low failure rate is very rare now days, especially with cutting edge gear.

Some large companies like Fender and Taylor have been able to work around this (to a degree) by building their own factories outside of the US but I doubt that Fractal has the means to do this.

If Fractal starts having this fine equipment built in the same factory that also pumps out microwave ovens and the latest Line 6 product, customers may be able to save a few hundred bucks but quality will suffer. It's a slippery slope.

I had considered buying a Matrix. It certainly has some hardware advantages over the AX8. Two of the main reasons I went with Fractal...an intelligent and supportive forum (kudos to you all) and the fact that, at least final assembly and testing are done in the same house that designed it (I assumed).

Ultimately, the American consumer is to blame for the giant manufacturing exodus. We vote with our wallets!

My two cents.

Actually . . . we vote with our bellies and out of Fear.

 

[JTI]

I agree 100% here. USA was one thing that set them apart from Line 6 and others. I hate it when corporations outsource. The price drop is nice, but I have Never seen quality remain the same when moved to China. Korea yes, China no. Just look at the quality issue returns for other products made there What it will mean though is in time they will not run out if stock and their profits will increase.

That. And the far superior tones coming out of said Fractal products

 

[Ole]

I agree 100% here. USA was one thing that set them apart from Line 6 and others. I hate it when corporations outsource. The price drop is nice, but I have Never seen quality remain the same when moved to China. Korea yes, China no. Just look at the quality issue returns for other products made there What it will mean though is in time they will not run out if stock and their profits will increase.

I have never noticed any problems with the MFC-101 that have been made in China since forever.
No quality issues at all, so I really do not agree.

 

[JTI]

@CT76 ; you are certainly not holding back! I am cautious and curious about the resale value of my MIA AX; but really I'm just along for the ride. If a MIC version keeps the train rolling and product development keeps coming at a good pace; I am good with that. Of course; I didn't buy new so there is definitely THAT.

 

[CT76]

@CT76 ; you are certainly not holding back! I am cautious and curious about the resale value of my MIA AX; but really I'm just along for the ride. If a MIC version keeps the train rolling and product development keeps coming at a good pace; I am good with that. Of course; I didn't buy new so there is definitely THAT.

It would of been better to discontinue the AX8 then keep it going with a lower price point to which ruins the value of the people that bought one to begin with, I dont see where the loyalty was to me, Fractal could of said, lets ship this over to china and lower cost, but to save the people that were with us from beginning lets change x.y.z so those people will have something different. There is nothing making mine worth 100.00 more at this time so I want my 100.00 back

 

[JTI]

^Not in the same boat as you at all, but totally get (and sympathize) where you are coming from. Buying and selling gear is always a crap shoot

 

[CT76]

^Not in the same boat as you at all, but totally get (and sympathize) where you are coming from. Buying and selling gear is always a crap shoot

I figured going into this that shortly after, at least a year later there would be an ax2 or ax ultra, but to already lower my value in less than 2 months is bullshit