Why No Authentic Tab For Effects Types??

effulgent said:
You don’t seem to acknowledge that this professional gear and your desire for simplicity is inhibiting your capacity to learn new things. The amount of time and effort to program what you’re asking for could be used to implement other features.

And, you know, you don’t have to touch any parameters besides the ones you already know. When you select an effect type, it automatically picks the default settings of that type. Further, there is the global and per-preset perform functionality for parameters.

One of the greatest things that fractal audio has done for me is inspire me to learn what all those parameters do by reading the manual. While unsolicited advice, I suggest reading the block guide all the way through.
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I've used Fractal for 10 years now, from Axe-Fx Standard to II to FM3 to Axe-Fx 3. I may have gone through those manuals a few times... That does not stop me from wanting things to be easier to use for myself and more straightforward for new users. Fractal users are a pretty tech savvy userbase compared to most guitarists in the first place but the learning curve is still quite high. "Professional gear" does not excuse things being easy to work with.

We can't all be experts on how to work every effect to best results so having some of the work done for us means we get satisfying results faster. Fractal adding more preset sounds to various fx blocks is a clear (and very welcome!) example of this. That has made me use some blocks that I would otherwise rarely use because I had a hard time dialing them to my liking. This is an example of the kind of "expert curation" that can make all the difference to the end user.

Speaking of manuals, Axe-Edit really could benefit hugely from being able to open the relevant manual section for the block you are editing. That would make a big difference as the manuals are well written and most of the parameters well explained there. I know this has been requested, just bringing it up again.
 
effulgent said:
Sigh. There is always google and reading the manual; it’s disappointing and disheartening when new users request simpler controls because they’re unwilling to figure it out and fill in their own knowledge gaps.

I, for one, don’t want to lose functionality to cater to users who want everything done for them.
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Can you please explain how you would lose any functionality with the addition of an Authentic page/tab in the Effects block?
 
I would LOVE to have a simplified/basic effects page that more closely resembles the actual pedal. This would be HUGE. It's the biggest obstacle keeping me from enjoying the Fractal effects as much as I enjoy actual, outboard effects where I can just twist a knob or two and find cool sounds.

I don't want to do hours of research to learn how to set all the advanced controls! I want to make music.
 
Meh...
An authentic page would make things more complicated for me. It would take more steps to get from the Type page to the Advanced pages. And something like the Phase 90 (the real pedal has a single control) would not benefit from an authentic page, because that control already is the very first knob in the Phaser block.
Guitar players are conservative. Think outside the box.
 
An authentic tab would be great and I think the reasons for wanting it have been well articulated. imo going forward it is these sort of considerations that will make the greatest difference to the end user. Personally the most significant changes over the past few releases outside of Cygnus, it being the single most important improvement, were the ability in the on-device editor to move back in the block layout, the yellow line on the mini-tuner, and ‘Scene Ignore’. They are all workflow items and to my mind offer quality of experience improvements. And imo the suggestion to add an optional authentic tab falls into that category which would in no way impact those who want access to the generic settings.
 
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Honestly... it’s not needed. I ‘get’ the idea, but it’s already there for the user who wants it like the real deal.

If needed... reset the block and use only the controls the real pedal has. The fundamental tone starts there.

Just because there’s all these extra knobs (parameters) available, doesn’t mean they need to be adjusted. I think all these options freak some users out. It doesn’t have to be that way.
Sure, it’s there if you want to mess around... or you’re knowledgeable and want to go deep.

And, if you decide to play with controls that are not on the real pedal and don’t like the results... reset the block and keep it familiar.
 
FractalAudio said:
No, the Phase 90 type IS a replica of a Phase 90. Our models/types simply expose stuff that is not exposed with the real pedal.

We could have an Authentic page for the various models but why limit yourself?
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With all due respect, and unless we mean something different when use the word "replica": Then why doesn't it sound like one at stock settings? Granted it´s maybe not night and day, but it could be a lot closer:




The settings for the phaser can be found here:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/clones-of-mxr-phase-90-evh-flanger-ep3-echoplex.159878/
 
unix-guy said:
To be honest, I'm not sure...

But look at the choices in Type:

View attachment 99056
You can see some are names you know like Script 90 but others are just general like Barberpole.

So how would you apply "ideal" in this case?

Yes, for Script 90 that could work... But not for Barberpole.

Hopefully that helps?
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Thanks! I guess I am just thinking that in the Amp Block there is an Ideal Tab and an Authentic Tab.
Having the Authentic Tab doesn't take anything away from the deeper parameters. I am not proposing
an either/or scenario --- nowhere near anything like some are insinuating. Why not both? A simple and
straightforward Authentic Tab that mimics what we would see on the front panel of a Deluxe Memory Man,
or a Phase 90, or a Univibe, while also still keeping open ALL of the other parameters on another Tab.
 
I just did an experiment to satisfy my own curiosity:

Since Cliff said the Script 90 is modeled after the pedal, and it's the one used in the "Eruption" factory preset, I compared the settings of the one in the preset, and the default settings that come up when you first place that effect type into a brand new block.

What I wanted to see, was if any of the parameters that are not on the actual pedal (all of them except "Rate") were changed for the factory preset.

They're not. Which is good, and good to know, for me at least. My takeaway is, that if you can't get the model to sound like the pedal, then perhaps the stock default settings are not the same as how the components work in the pedal itself. But I would assume they are...
 
TSJMajesty said:
I just did an experiment to satisfy my own curiosity:

Since Cliff said the Script 90 is modeled after the pedal, and it's the one used in the "Eruption" factory preset, I compared the settings of the one in the preset, and the default settings that come up when you first place that effect type into a brand new block.

What I wanted to see, was if any of the parameters that are not on the actual pedal (all of them except "Rate") were changed for the factory preset.
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Fun idea, but if I understand you correctly, you missed a few points. First, don't assume that any preset -- factory or not -- needs to be set "authentically" to sound "right". There are a lot of cool reasons for this that I'm sure you can begin to guess. Secondly, effect "Types" set values for visible parameters that can be used to enable features that one effect type or another may or may not have. Consider Feedback Point in the Phaser. No analog phaser I know of has this a control for this, but different types will need to set it to different values. Also, don't assume that
 
guitarnerdswe said:
With all due respect, and unless we mean something different when use the word "replica": Then why doesn't it sound like one at stock settings? Granted it´s maybe not night and day, but it could be a lot closer:




The settings for the phaser can be found here:
https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/clones-of-mxr-phase-90-evh-flanger-ep3-echoplex.159878/
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Maybe cuz your pedal is not the exact one Cliff modeled?
The phase 90 is very sensitive to the matching of its JFETs so it's pretty much inpossible to find two units that sound identical.
It also has an internal trimpot to set the bias which, due to its dimensions, is lacking in precision of its setting so that makes up for another possible difference between two units.

Furthermore the axe fx model probably simulates a pedal with ideal/perfect bias and JFET matching.
 
Admin M@ said:
Fun idea, but if I understand you correctly, you missed a few points. First, don't assume that any preset -- factory or not -- needs to be set "authentically" to sound "right". There are a lot of cool reasons for this that I'm sure you can begin to guess. Secondly, effect "Types" set values for visible parameters that can be used to enable features that one effect type or another may or may not have. Consider Feedback Point in the Phaser. No analog phaser I know of has this a control for this, but different types will need to set it to different values. Also, don't assume that
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Thanks for the response Matt! Not completely following you, but that's ok because I'm still learning (I mean, at 101 levels, maybe 102 lol!), and I read SO much around here. I'm getting it, slowly.
Looks like you were about to continue saying something else...?
 
DLC86 said:
Maybe cuz your pedal is not the exact one Cliff modeled?
The phase 90 is very sensitive to the matching of its JFETs so it's pretty much inpossible to find two units that sound identical.
It also has an internal trimpot to set the bias which, due to its dimensions, is lacking in precision of its setting so that makes up for another possible difference between two units.

Furthermore the axe fx model probably simulates a pedal with ideal/perfect bias and JFET matching.
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Yeah, analog pedals can vary due to component tolerances. Sometimes a lot, particularly in vintage pedals where tolerances were far worse and age tends to make component values drift.
 
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