Why I won't be using the cab block for recording any more

I've always understood that the Ultra Res IR format was a way to get some of the sonic benefits of longer .wav IRs into a format that was practical to use inside the Axe-FX because UR requires less CPU and less RAM.
And although I've not spent much time using IR loaders in my DAW (Space Designer in Logic X in my case) to mess around with longer .wav IRs, I've always understood that they could potentially sound more realistic than UR IRs used in the Axe's Cab Block.
But I've yet to do that sort of thing because for my own needs, thus far, UR has been satisfactory.

But what I don't understand is why it is that Cab Lab won't allow us to save IRs (e.g. IRs that we shoot ourselves of our own cabs or mixes we make of long .wav and/o .ir files) as 170ms or longer .wav format files so that we can also use these IRs we create with Cab Lab in our DAWs as well as in the Axe.
???

Cab Lab seems to want to limit the whole IR technology to Ultra Res when Ultra Res is really a compromise for using IRs in the Axe-FX.

Seems strange and near sighted to me.
 
joegold said:
I've always understood that the Ultra Res IR format was a way to get some of the sonic benefits of longer .wav IRs into a format that was practical to use inside the Axe-FX because UR requires less CPU and less RAM.
And although I've not spent much time using IR loaders in my DAW (Space Designer in Logic X in my case) to mess around with longer .wav IRs, I've always understood that they could potentially sound more realistic than UR IRs used in the Axe's Cab Block.
But I've yet to do that sort of thing because for my own needs, thus far, UR has been satisfactory.

But what I don't understand is why it is that Cab Lab won't allow us to save IRs (e.g. IRs that we shoot ourselves of our own cabs or mixes we make of long .wav and/o .ir files) as 170ms or longer .wav format files so that we can also use these IRs we create with Cab Lab in our DAWs as well as in the Axe.
???

Cab Lab seems to want to limit the whole IR technology to Ultra Res when Ultra Res is really a compromise for using IRs in the Axe-FX.

Seems strange and near sighted to me.
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Huh? Cab-Lab allows you to save .ir files which are 170 ms long. You can load these into Cab-Lab Plug-in and process them in your DAW. Nothing short-sighted at all. Quite the opposite I'd say.
 
AndyOrr said:
This has been interesting. There are three impressive facts about this thread:

1. The OP and others identified a real problem with the cab IR's that many others missed.

2. FAS was skeptical but listened and not only concurred, they fixed it in under 1/2 hour.

3. Someone actually knows how to use Space Designer in Logic! ��
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Bojangles said:
Staring Van Dam as Cliff and professor Snape as Speculum Speculorum
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Oh being compared to Snape. Le sigh.

FractalAudio said:
Huh? Cab-Lab allows you to save .ir files which are 170 ms long. You can load these into Cab-Lab Plug-in and process them in your DAW. Nothing short-sighted at all. Quite the opposite I'd say.
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Wait - so Cab Lab 3 caps the limit at 170 ms? Perhaps I'm palm-mute brained at this point, but you did say it can load full length wav files in the DAW mode right?

Also, it may be the effects of high gain riffing boiling my noodle, but uh... did the power amp modeling just get a hair meaner on FW 18.07 from 18.06? I mean... now I MAY be starting to actually hear things! hahaha
 
Speculum Speculorum said:
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Wait - so Cab Lab 3 caps the limit at 170 ms? Perhaps I'm palm-mute brained at this point, but you did say it can load full length wav files in the DAW mode right?
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You can load any length IR but it will truncate them to 8K samples which is about 170 ms. Trust me, there's no meaningful data beyond 150 ms and if there is, it's the room and you don't want that much room.
 
FractalAudio said:
You can load any length IR but it will truncate them to 8K samples which is about 170 ms. Trust me, there's no meaningful data beyond 150 ms and if there is, it's the room and you don't want that much room.
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Since the plugin will not be using the axe for processing, will we be able to load whatever size IR we feel necessary or with that be limited as well?
 
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does cab pack 10 include the wave files that we can use them with other plugins when we record (i cant use cablab since there isnt a VST version for mac yet)
 
hmmm is there a reason why FAS dont share also the wave files? If there is no down side of this for them, would be great for us...aint it?
 
FractalAudio said:
Huh? Cab-Lab allows you to save .ir files which are 170 ms long. You can load these into Cab-Lab Plug-in and process them in your DAW. Nothing short-sighted at all. Quite the opposite I'd say.
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Right. I was still thinking of Cab Lab 2 and had forgotten about the new DAW plugin version of Cab Lab.
But why not just allow Cab Lab, the non-plugin version, to save .wav files of whatever length the original files being mixed had so the .wav files can be loaded into other plugins like Space Designer?
Wav files do seem to be the standard for convolution within a DAW.

And when the Cab Lab plugin is being used, doesn't it always work in Ultra Res format (or High Res Format) or can it retain the full length of any .wav IRs that are loaded into it and/or being mixed by it and/or being shot with it?
I could be wrong, but isn't Cab Lab 3 always working in UR format (which starts with a maximum of 170ms IRs and then processes them down to a smaller file size via some proprietary algorithm) or in Standard Res (which I believe is limited to something like 40ms IR lengths)?
I.e. Can the Cab Lab 3 plugin utilize all the sonic benefits of, say, Ownhammer's 500ms IRs, in your DAW or does it alter those files somehow the way that Ultra Res files are altered versions of the original IRs, altered so they can be used in the Axe-FX?

And can Cab Lab 3 shoot a 500ms IR of one of my own cabs and will the resulting .ir file of it still be the full 500ms in length?
I didn't think so.
But I could be wrong.

Or am I missing something?
If so, what am I missing?
 
Wow, thanks to Speculum Speculorum and Cliff for the research. I had NO clue about this and this feels great to know that the problem is fixed, even though i loved the tone before.
I have not used external IR loader in such a long time because i find it easier to make a patch that i can use gigging and all, but i bet i would not noticed it anyway.

Big thanks.
 
Very educational thread! Now I've leaned how ultrares IR's work.

Now I'm interested to try out the fixed ultrares, since I got on board mid way though FW16, so I guess technically I've never heard correct ultrares! Though I'm still on 18.03 right now, so I've got the 18.04/5/6 improvements aswell.
 
greiswig said:
This is not embarrassing. You guys do so much work that it would be really surprising if things like this did NOT happen. And you research it, own up to it, and fix it. This is the way I wish all companies would act. Once again, customer loyalty! If word of mouth marketing matters, I'll be singing your praises to whoever I can. Thank you!

And thanks also to the OP for doing some genuine footwork and posting, which helped out everybody!
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Amen !!!
 
FractalAudio said:
Well this is embarrassing.

I refused to believe that there could be that much difference as I've extensively tested UltraRes in the past. So I just ran some tests and, sure enough, there was a difference. Turns out UltraRes has been broke since Version 16.03. We made some code optimizations and moved some stuff between stack and heap and missed a variable.

Sooooo... Version 18.07 will coming soon.
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And I thought something was wrong with me because I kept rolling back to 16 and liking it better. Kudos to all you brainiacs that figured this out! But then I haven't tried 18.07 yet... 8)
 
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