Well you got one less person getting the axe fx II

My opinion is that the mods on this board are all doing a marvelous job.
They are knowledgable and fair. And of course they are entitled to have personal opinions and state those.
They're putting in a lot of time and effort on their own account, to the benefit of all forum members. I learned a lot from Scott, Sean etc.
I don't buy the occasional accusations of this board being moderated too heavily, mysterious disappearance of posts, abuse of mod position and such. A lot is allowed here.
And in the end: this is a manufacturer's board.
 
Why ask for direct models when there's evolving to be done? Did Jimi Hendrix want to use stuff that sounded like everyone else, or did he not go an evolve? What makes a Lexicon 480L sound good? How about the TC Electronic 2290? It wasn't because they wanted to emulate old units, that's for sure. I mean, even Eventide didn't stop when they designed the H3000. They came up with the Orville, which was an improvement. The 1176 compressor only became a standard in studios when it was found that an anomaly of it's construction resulted in pumping on drum busses that sounded good. However, instead of trying to find uniqueness, we're stuck in the guitar community with emulation-itis.

What you have here is smoke and mirrors. We're told that something sounds good because it was used on a certain record, therefore we're conditioned to accept, and even aspire to that sound, even if it was substandard in the first place. Hence, we have not had a culture of trailblazers musically for the percentage of the population that plays guitar, in the same way as sax or trumpet players. We should have fifty Miles Davises, or Birds, or John Bonhams. Instead, we have emulators.

I've owned all those units and the axe fx effects does'nt sound as good as they do ....i'm not worried about who used them or what album they are on i just know how good they sound cause i've used them

If i had roadies to carry it all i would be using it instead of the axe fx ...the axe fx does a good job at doing all them effects in one box and makes it easier on my back but to me it does'nt do it the best and i have my doubts the axe fx II does either
 
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I've owned all those units and the axe fx effects does'nt sound as good as they do ....i'm not worried about who used them or what album they are on i just know how good they sound cause i've used them

If i had roadies to carry it all i would be using it instead of the axe fx ...the axe fx does a good job at doing all them effects in one box and makes it easier on my back but to me it does'nt do it the best and i have my doubts the axe fx II does either

Ok...... but there's no such thing as something sounding good always. It's a question of context. I have recorded a lot of great sounding amps that wouldn't sit well in a mix, but this isn't about amps. I have used lush Lexicon reverb lines that sounded great on their own, but are swamped in a mix, and when the level is raised, they wash everything else out. I have used 2290 delays that lost their definition, Eventide Orvilles that have sounded too sharp, etc.

My point is that there is no one effect type that will do it all, and sometimes the surprise is when something unexpected does the job nicely. The Vox AC30 giving Nevermind it's huge distortions, for example, so the question of something sounding good is a little pointless. It has to do it's job instead. You could never play Bach on an upright piano and do it the same justice, likewise, you couldn't play honkytonk on a Boesendorfer Grand. Saying that something 'sounds good' is like saying the sky is blue because it 'just is' and to take the persons word for it. There are reasons always.

If you have owned a 480L, Eventide, and an 1176, then you also know about their lack of real time controllability, which again hampers creativity. You'll also know the 480 isn't a good 'fix all' reverb, and the 1176 isn't great on guitar, and how the Eventide mangles instruments with subtle dynamics. They're cases in point.

For me, the Axe FX is just another tool, and as such, I'm not going to waste my time trying to make it sound perfect. I just want it to fit.
 
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Please describe the sound of an Eventide delay and how it differs from the Axe-FX delay (be as specific as possible; no meaningless mumbo jumbo such as "It sounds better").

Ditto for the Eventide harmonizer. Again, be as specific as possible about each available parameter, latency, glitching, timbre, stability, tracking, speed, etc.

I would think about getting the axe fx II if I thought the effects would be better but I'm not sure it would be that much better. At this point Amp sims is not a factor for me.

I actually think other units and pedals sound better then the axe fx far as effects go but the axe fx sounds good enough and the routing is the reason I like to use it. Before the axe fx I had two switchers and about 10 pedals and three rack units for effects. I would really like to hear about the effects more then the amp sims.

Can the flanger sound like my 78 mxr flanger , ada flanger or hartman flanger?

Can the chorus sound like my analogman or retro sonic chorus?

Can the delay sound like eventide?

Can the harmonizer sound like a eventide?

Can the phaser sound like 1974 mxr phase 90?

Can the reverb sound like a lexicon?

I think all these units do effects better but you got the problem of having a ton of gear in your rack. If you can tell me the effects have gotten that much better then I would be more inclined to buy it.
 
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Please describe the sound of an Eventide delay and how it differs from the Axe-FX delay (be as specific as possible; no meaningless mumbo jumbo such as "It sounds better").

Ditto for the Eventide harmonizer. Again, be as specific as possible about each available parameter, latency, glitching, timbre, stability, tracking, speed, etc.


eventide sounds more musical to me ....it sounds natural and more real to me ....like if i closed my eyes i would really think there are more than one guitar player or i could see the amp in a big room and delay caused by the room

latency, glitching, timbre, stability, tracking, speed are performance issues and i think both units do good at them what i'm talking about is sound and the eventide sounds more natural to me ....but like i said the axe fx does a good job and that's why i use it ....all i said was for certain effects are done better by other products ... chorus sounds best with analog pedals ...i've never liked a chorus in a effects box or digital...it's always cold to me for example
 
Please describe the sound of an Eventide delay and how it differs from the Axe-FX delay (be as specific as possible; no meaningless mumbo jumbo such as "It sounds better").

Ditto for the Eventide harmonizer. Again, be as specific as possible about each available parameter, latency, glitching, timbre, stability, tracking, speed, etc.

Well I've got an Eventide 7600 and me and my engineer A/B'd them last night.

Without getting into a tedious discussion of the whole experience we came to the conclusion that:

A - The Axe CANNOT replace the Eventide from an engineer's point of view. No surprise there, it was never intended to.
B - The Axe CAN replace the Eventide from a guitar player's point of view (subject to personal taste). To be honest, I found I actually preferred the Axe versions of the more complicated harmonizer patches (which can easily go horribly wrong). I also found it was easy enough to dial in delays that were indistinguishable, and my engineer agreed.

I can't remember all the details of everything we tried - this wasn't a formal scientific process. And frankly, it doesn't really matter, as ultimately this is an issue of taste and subjectivity. Someone might conduct the exact same test and conclude they prefer the Eventide, which is fine.

But my opinion is that this just can't be reduced to a clear-cut "X is better than Y" discussion. Both are serious, uber-pro level pieces of gear. They are not identical, in the same way that a Neve and an SSL pre-amp are not identical. If you don't own an Eventide 7600 or 8000 (which at US$3500-5000 are expensive toys) then the Axe will probably meet your guitar playing needs handily.
 
On the subject of delay, it helps to not confuse delay (distinct echoes) and reverb (random multiple blended repetitions designed to simulate a room sound [in the 480L sense, which is a digital reverb]). The sound of a guitar in a room is reverb. Distinct echoes are delay. If I thought that there were multiple guitars in a room, I would look upon that as a negative aspect, as I would rely on mutlitracking to achieve the same purpose. The delay effect in itself is most apparent in the Roland Space Echo tape units which have a distinct character. When I listens to the Edge's delay sound (given by a TC Electronic 2290), I don't hear the illusion of multiple guitars. I hear an effect, and one that works. The purest, most natural approach for the Edge in these circumstances would have been to track layers of guitars, but he didn't do this. Instead, he evolved his sound using the tools at his disposal. The same can be said of flanging, and chorus, which are time domain effects. John Lennon didn't ask the Beatles to re-record specific instrument parts for Tomorrow Never Knows. Instead, he used tape loops to give the illusion of instruments, and the fact that they didn't sound like 'natural' instruments was the thing that gave the track its character.

Latency, glitching, stability, tracking and speed (whatever that may mean) may be performance issues, but timbre is something completely different and may or may not be performance related. Time and again we hear these terms bandied about by those who think they know what the terms mean. Let me illustrate.

Flanging and phasing are unnatural effects. To say they sound unnatural, is to critisise the nature of the effect itself, and if it sounds unnatural, why use it? After all, the harmonic distortion induced by amplifier circuitry is, in itself, an unnatural artifact. The question is not whether it's natural or not. To ask or suggest this is pointless. The main question is, does it have a place?

We also have this idea that digital sounds 'cold'. Anybody who things this should read Bob Katz book on mastering (I can't remember the title), then read Mixing With Your Mind (can't remember the author), and then do blind listening tests to find out for themselves, rather than relying on their eyes to do their ears work for them. The problem is not with 'digital' but with opinion, and the rather 'trendy' but ultimately unhelpful way in which it is perceived. (Side note) A case in point is the vinyl vs. CD debate. Vinyl cannot contain the same LF content as CD because of the RIAA EQ used when cutting the discs, relying on the EQ of the preamp to do it's work for it, therefore giving a substandard representation. CD is far better, giving a more true representation with a better dynamic range and no analogue compression from the medium, and it just sounds crisper because of the increased higher frequency content. SuperAudio CD sounds even better because less filtering is needed within the audio spectrum, but (personal opinion) doesn't justify the expense for most modern recordings, classical being the main exception. Does this mean the music isn't better? No.

Sometimes the old adages are the best, and must be applied to guitarists it seems, more than to any other instrument player.

Crap in, crap out.
 
Since it is sitting on my desk in front of me...

The Bob Katz book I believe BigD was referring to is "Mastering Audio the art and the science"
 
I think he could have quietly Cliff PMed, or send an e-mail, these options are available. Unless it is a complete and total idiot, he had to know where such talk would lead. The only thing he could have done to make it more obvious was to go on Jerry Springer.
Spambot is spamming weird. Let it go bro.
 
I think he could have quietly Cliff PMed, or send an e-mail, these options are available. Unless it is a complete and total idiot, he had to know where such talk would lead. The only thing he could have done to make it more obvious was to go on Jerry Springer.
Woah! That's just weird. It took a post I made in another thread, that was deleted for obvious reasons, and messed it all up with wrong, and reordered words!
 
when I said i heard more than one guitar i meant for harmonies not delays ....truth be told the harmony and delays on the axe fx sound great to me ....I really don't care for the chorus the most then it would be the flanger after that ....the flanger sounds good just not as good as my pedals and the chorus does'nt even come close to analogman or retrosonic chorus ....also the tremolo seems weak to me too
 
Crap in, crap out.

That is an adage I can agree with. I hate production work that covers up your "thing" ya know. Every guitar player has their quirks, which is what makes up your style. Go back and listen to some old Zeppelin, Jimi Page messes up every now and then, and amazingly he DIDN'T go back an fix it. Crazy right? By todays standards, it would be UNTHINKABLE. I think a lot of modern guitarists go a long way to fix things that would otherwise define them. Instead their recordings come of as sterile, and very ordinary.

Besides that, and if you can just cover up every screw up in post production, how do you ever expect to be able to play it correctly live?
 
give me a setting on the tremolo that sounds like the stones on give me shelter ....I just can't seem to get it out of the axe fx tremolo ....if you got a setting i'll try it
 
I like lime slushies, but my blender just doesnt have enough modeling capabilities, of the different bar and resort blenders Ive used.
 
Well if I have immunity to speak on which staff member still needed to go, please let me know, if not i'll re-frame, I need not any warnings for attacking someone personally now would I. Nope haven't been paying attention, yet i'm able to point out issues with Cliff's staff that you have seemed to miss, or maybe just ignore, either way the issues are still there.

Ps. I thought Jay left because he didn't agree with Cliff, with regards to the Axe 2 vs the Ultra's tonal qualities. Even if that wasen't the full reason, I could see the tension between them in the thread where they went back and forth.

where is that thread, I need more fun, and if its public then its public "not their business"
 
give me a setting on the tremolo that sounds like the stones on give me shelter ....I just can't seem to get it out of the axe fx tremolo ....if you got a setting i'll try it

And this is a case of an effect being used on a popular song and people trying to emulate it, even if the effect is flawed, which is pointless if evolution of style is to occur.
 
which is pointless if evolution of style is to occur.
Not necessarily. Evolution is a gradual thing, and like in life, it is all about where you came from, (your parents) and where you are going, (still human, but with a better taste in clothing) and if you listen to, and are influenced by more than one artist, (where you came from) you will come out the end with a blend of the parts these artists you enjoy the most, (where you are going) and an evolution of style has rightly occurred.

However, there are those that strike out on their own, doing their best to go against the flow, and not sound like anything else, and if they are successful, (very rarely, as there will always be hints of your influences) then this is style MUTATION!!! This is along the lines of having a radiation leak near your guitar, and it turning into Spiderguitar!!! lol

Both are very justly useful, and accepted forms of musical advancement, and almost every developed artist uses both of these techniques to some degree. For instance, I am VERY influenced by a wide range of artists, to numerous to even name, yet I still have my quirks that I have came up with all on my own, making my style unique enough to sound original, yet not so original that people can't pick out my influences, even ones I never thought about until it was pointed out to me. Which is a good thing if you want to make music into a career. lol
 
give me a setting on the tremolo that sounds like the stones on give me shelter ....I just can't seem to get it out of the axe fx tremolo ....if you got a setting i'll try it
haha - nice try. Suspect you're trolling, but in case not ...

You asserted the tremolo is weak, I gave you a hint, and now you're still asking for more. The ball's in your court now. Have you tried my suggestion? What did you learn? Share what works for you and what doesn't. Another hint: Start with maximum depth.

But I think you imply some interesting and often discussed points:

(1) The AxeFX is not for everyone

(2) No box can emulate every sound ever created

(3) If a box makes a sound you like, use it, whatever it is

(4) The powerful routing, effect combinations and dynamic realtime control that's possible in the AxeFX deliver effect sounds not possible in any other box. New sounds are yet to be discovered as well!
 
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