Well you got one less person getting the axe fx II

[GM Arts]

IIRC Jay stated that going from 1024 point IRs to 2048 makes no audible difference, and I expect he's right for guitar. By my rough calculations, a 1024 point IR (at 48KHz) can filter down to about 47Hz, so for bass guitar (especially 5-string), the new 2048 format might be an improvement.

Also, fwiw, my Vetta IS my backup rig while waiting for the II. It's adequate for live work, still get some tome compliments from other players, so it just go to show how anal we've become. It's hard to step back though - I can't wait for the II

 

[cobbler]

@Joe

If being a satisfied customer = fan boy then consider me a fan boy. It does not bother me in the least. Consider me a fan boy of Fender, Gibson, Taylor, Chevy, Beef, and Glenmorangie single malt scotch as well because I love their products. And that's just my opinion, my personal likes and taste. The Axe gen1 and genII units are ideal for my needs. I can certainly see where other options are more viable for others.

The difference between me the fan boy and you the obsessed is that I made a decision that suits my needs and am here on my choice's web site trying to learn more about it and trying to help others if at all possible and you (like the OP) feel the need to visit the site of the product you didn’t choose to explain why, offer nothing positive, toss out inaccurate assumptions, and actually take the time to search out old threads of some possible squabble. What could your possible agenda be here other than to troll and stir the pot?

I would think you would be off enjoying your new products and you would be on their websites looking for new and creative ways to use that purchase that suits you so well. You should be off writing wish lists to the company owners of said products and installing their weekly updates. The last thing I would think of after purchasing something I felt was great for me would be to register on the non-choices websites for any reason whatsoever.

But I think we all know the OP's and yours…

Craig

 

[jerotas]

Or is he just grossly opinionated?
I'm sorry, but saying the Axe-II doesn't smoke the Axe-1st gen is an OPINIOIN.

I enjoyed his Opinion as well as his ...Opin(i)on...were you trying to be punny?
In all fairness, you know how it is. You spent mega-bucks on a new toy and most often people will feel compelled to spout off like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, partly as a way of justifying their purchase. Maybe also helping others feel better about the mega-bucks they spent on the same thing.

Now when one guy (Jay) could actually speak logically and without bias and say that the SOUND is not much different. Well even though I wasn't a fan of him by any means, this did a lot to put him back to "swell guy" in my eyes. Have I seen anyone else speak up the same way? No, and I don't expect to. But just one voice is enough, considering he does have the old Axe (as do I). That gives me PLENTY more peace of mind to wait years before upgrading.

I am aware that the other points that changed could be argued to be worth the price of the upgrade (IR's / no input gain knob), although the USB is entirely useless to me, already owning a great interface with zero-latency monitoring.

 

[Guitar-Tiz]

IIRC Jay stated that going from 1024 point IRs to 2048 makes no audible difference, and I expect he's right for guitar. By my rough calculations, a 1024 point IR (at 48KHz) can filter down to about 47Hz, so for bass guitar (especially 5-string), the new 2048 format might be an improvement.

Also, fwiw, my Vetta IS my backup rig while waiting for the II. It's adequate for live work, still get some tome compliments from other players, so it just go to show how anal we've become. It's hard to step back though - I can't wait for the II

AND, in theory, his IS 100% correct.

But I'm still not convinced that there aren't some non-adible stuff going on that the human body, in some other capacity, needs to get "that" feel, or 100% of the tube tone, and science just hasn't discovered, or quantified whatever it is. But that's theory for you. It's all fun and games till they discover something new, then your out on your ass like that crazy guy that first theorized the world was flat.

 

[Joe Jaeger]

I enjoy listening to a lot of peoples opinions, if not for anything else but to strengthen my own, but I also don't take the opinion of one man over a crowd.

There are at least a dozen users, who's opinions on tone I don't take lightly, that say he's wrong. So the question is do I take advice from one man, who has no respect for anyone, and thus deserves none from me, or do I take it from a group of men, who tend to be quite respectful, and I have the highest of respect for? Well, gee, let me think about it...

Jay has nothing to do with my purchases. Several of my reasons for not purchasing the II was laid out by the OP. I still liked Jay's review of the II, to bad he deleted it, it's one of my favorite reviews thus far.

 

[Guitar-Tiz]

I enjoyed his Opinion as well as his ...Opin(i)on...were you trying to be punny?
In all fairness, you know how it is. You spent mega-bucks on a new toy and most often people will feel compelled to spout off like it's the greatest thing since sliced bread, partly as a way of justifying their purchase. Maybe also helping others feel better about the mega-bucks they spent on the same thing.

Now when one guy (Jay) could actually speak logically and without bias and say that the SOUND is not much different. Well even though I wasn't a fan of him by any means, this did a lot to put him back to "swell guy" in my eyes. Have I seen anyone else speak up the same way? No, and I don't expect to. But just one voice is enough, considering he does have the old Axe (as do I). That gives me PLENTY more peace of mind to wait years before upgrading.

I am aware that the other points that changed could be argued to be worth the price of the upgrade (IR's / no input gain knob), although the USB is entirely useless to me, already owning a great interface with zero-latency monitoring.

Well, I haven't bought anything yet, but I still put more faith in Scott Peterson myself. He's also an old Axe owner as well.

 

[Guitar-Tiz]

Jay has nothing to do with my purchases. Several of my reasons for not purchasing the II was laid out by the OP. I still liked Jay's review of the II, to bad he deleted it, it's one of my favorite reviews thus far.

I don't purchasing anything because of a single review either, I make my purchasing decisions based on many different things. It's only logical.

 

[hippietim]

The OP was not trolling, flaming, or anything else like that. And to question his motives or agenda is really over the top really. Think about it - what agenda could anyone possibly have here? Do you guys think he owns Egnater or is a Line 6 spy? Beyond something like that there simply is no reason to think anyone has an agenda. Believe it or not, most people couldn't give two shits about all this board posturing (and there's plenty of that here).

I think the Axe-FX community has just gotten far too sensitive. The Axe-FX community needs to stop acting like everyone that does not love the Axe-FX is automatically one of the small handful of douche bags that do troll these forums. Don't assume that because someone prefers tubes that they don't know what they're doing with the Axe-FX. Just because someone likes a traditional rig better and says so doesn't make them a troll. Some of you should stop assuming the worst in people - particularly online where intent is difficult to discern and the overwhelming majority of folks are here to learn and share.

The OP is not wrong. It was one person's opinion. There were no facts being asserted. There was no obvious malice. And I don't necessarily disagree with the jist of his point. I've been using an Ultra for years as my main rig and think it's great. But it ain't the real thing. You can say it's better or worse - those are both reasonable opinions. But it's not the same. Close enough for me though. I also just got the II. My initial impression plugged into my FBT 12ma was pretty positive. I just picked up a K10 to use as a monitor for the band and decided to try the Axe II with it - umm...did not like. The bass was boomy and unusable to me - even at low volumes. Obviously I need to spend a bunch more time to figure out what does/doesn't work. But it's easy to see where you can end up with something that is not a home run rig out of the gate.

 

[Guitar-Tiz]

The OP was not trolling, flaming, or anything else like that. And to question his motives or agenda is really over the top really. Think about it - what agenda could anyone possibly have here? Do you guys think he owns Egnater or is a Line 6 spy? Beyond something like that there simply is no reason to think anyone has an agenda. Believe it or not, most people couldn't give two shits about all this board posturing (and there's plenty of that here).

I think the Axe-FX community has just gotten far too sensitive. The Axe-FX community needs to stop acting like everyone that does not love the Axe-FX is automatically one of the small handful of douche bags that do troll these forums. Don't assume that because someone prefers tubes that they don't know what they're doing with the Axe-FX. Just because someone likes a traditional rig better and says so doesn't make them a troll. Some of you should stop assuming the worst in people - particularly online where intent is difficult to discern and the overwhelming majority of folks are here to learn and share.

The OP is not wrong. It was one person's opinion. There were no facts being asserted. There was no obvious malice. And I don't necessarily disagree with the jist of his point. I've been using an Ultra for years as my main rig and think it's great. But it ain't the real thing. You can say it's better or worse - those are both reasonable opinions. But it's not the same. Close enough for me though. I also just got the II. My initial impression plugged into my FBT 12ma was pretty positive. I just picked up a K10 to use as a monitor for the band and decided to try the Axe II with it - umm...did not like. The bass was boomy and unusable to me - even at low volumes. Obviously I need to spend a bunch more time to figure out what does/doesn't work. But it's easy to see where you can end up with something that is not a home run rig out of the gate.

Well, if he wasn't trying to start a flame war, then why make this thread at all? I mean, the title says it all. He's proclaiming to the forum that he's not getting an Axe-FX II, and it's quite obvious it's not for happy reasons. I mean, he could have quietly PMed Cliff, or sent him an email, those options are available. Unless he's a complete and utter idiot, he had to know where such posturing would lead. The only think he could have done to make it more obvious was go on Jerry Springer.

 

[Scott Peterson]

The OP was not trolling, flaming, or anything else like that. And to question his motives or agenda is really over the top really. Think about it - what agenda could anyone possibly have here? Do you guys think he owns Egnater or is a Line 6 spy? Beyond something like that there simply is no reason to think anyone has an agenda. Believe it or not, most people couldn't give two shits about all this board posturing (and there's plenty of that here).

I think the Axe-FX community has just gotten far too sensitive. The Axe-FX community needs to stop acting like everyone that does not love the Axe-FX is automatically one of the small handful of douche bags that do troll these forums. Don't assume that because someone prefers tubes that they don't know what they're doing with the Axe-FX. Just because someone likes a traditional rig better and says so doesn't make them a troll. Some of you should stop assuming the worst in people - particularly online where intent is difficult to discern and the overwhelming majority of folks are here to learn and share.

The OP is not wrong. It was one person's opinion. There were no facts being asserted. There was no obvious malice. And I don't necessarily disagree with the jist of his point. I've been using an Ultra for years as my main rig and think it's great. But it ain't the real thing. You can say it's better or worse - those are both reasonable opinions. But it's not the same. Close enough for me though. I also just got the II. My initial impression plugged into my FBT 12ma was pretty positive. I just picked up a K10 to use as a monitor for the band and decided to try the Axe II with it - umm...did not like. The bass was boomy and unusable to me - even at low volumes. Obviously I need to spend a bunch more time to figure out what does/doesn't work. But it's easy to see where you can end up with something that is not a home run rig out of the gate.

Tim,

The "community" is a little bit of an over the top statement. No more than 2-3 guys total called the OP a troll. I pointed out that certain behavior can lead folks to that assumption. I don't sense anyone being 'sensitive' at all. I see a bunch of forum posturing and buffoonery.

Two or three guys on an entire busy forum like this calling someone a name (and the OP has clearly edited many posts in this thread which you may or may not be privy to before they were edited) does not define a community.

Speaking in such sweeping terms serves no purpose but to further the gamesmanship at hand. And no one can tell me there is no gamesmanship at play in this thread. It's like sport to some people. That's closer to what is happening on this thread. It's jockeying for position and poke fingers in other folks' eyes. Like it or not, that's how I read most of it.

Not related to Tim's post, the entire trend of calling the moderators here 'staff' is another inaccurate term. The moderators here are volunteers that are trying to help out on the board. The job is one that I do not recommend to people that have not done it; you are damned if you do and damned if you don't. But this trend of calling moderators 'staff' gives an entirely inaccurate slant to what the actual job entails. We are not agents nor representatives for Fractal Audio.

 

[Guitar-Tiz]

We are not agents nor representatives for Fractal Audio.

Not to be a jerk, but I have to disagree, and I'm not usually one to be in disagreement with you Scott, but employees or not, as moderators of the official Fractal forum you are expected, by Cliff, to represent yourself in a certain way, or you're going to get the axe, and not the good one. Thus by default you are a representative, even if you don't want it.

 

[kickatch]

Ok I'll try to say this better this time ....I've had the ultra over a year and played out every week and it worked fine ...most people said i had killer sound ....but to me something was always missing that I had with my tube rigs and I was tweaking all the time and I went back and forth with the frfr and amp setups ....I always like the amp set up better with the axe fx .... tried solid state power amps but the tube power amps always sounded better to me ....I tried to use the axe fx with a hughes and kettner access but had major noise issues ...the tone to me was better but the noise was a deal breaker .....axe fx II comes out and I say well maybe it will give me that sound I'm missing .....well you see how the release went down and how crazy it got so I got a little turned off by that but I started listening to the clips of the axe II and to me it did'nt really sound better than the axe fx .....it might be easier to dial in but I'm not sure it's got the missing piece I'm missing sound wise far as live.....the axe fx sounds great at low levels in studio monitors or listening on a stereo that's why it makes great recordings but to me it seems to fall short when you got to play at band level ....all I know is I got the egnater m4 because I read it was'nt having any problems with noise when using the axe fx .....so I get the M4 the other day at 3 p.m and I got a show at 9 p.m .....so I throw it in the rack and start programing cause I want to use it at the show ....so on all my presets in the axe fx I just replace the amp with a effects loop and I just save on the M4 what channel I want it on and adjust levels and eq ....so I get to the show and I'm thinking I hope this is not a disaster cause it was crazy to do that right before a show and it might suck ......right from the first song til the last I was like oh my god this is what i've been missing ....the sound was amazing....i was'nt thinking I need to tweak this or that ....the effects on the axe fx sounded better with the tube amp too which really surprised me.....I posted it because I know some guys have felt the same way about something missing live with amp sims and thinking the axe fx II might be the ticket but in the end all you might need is a good tube amp with the axe fx for effects ....like I said it sounds great on recordings but live to me it's missing something

 

[Gasp100]

Ok I'll try to say this better this time ....I've had the ultra over a year and played out every week and it worked fine ...most people said i had killer sound ....but to me something was always missing that I had with my tube rigs and I was tweaking all the time and I went back and forth with the frfr and amp setups ....I always like the amp set up better with the axe fx .... tried solid state power amps but the tube power amps always sounded better to me ....I tried to use the axe fx with a hughes and kettner access but had major noise issues ...the tone to me was better but the noise was a deal breaker .....axe fx II comes out and I say well maybe it will give me that sound I'm missing .....well you see how the release went down and how crazy it got so I got a little turned off by that but I started listening to the clips of the axe II and to me it did'nt really sound better than the axe fx .....it might be easier to dial in but I'm not sure it's got the missing piece I'm missing sound wise far as live.....the axe fx sounds great at low levels in studio monitors or listening on a stereo that's why it makes great recordings but to me it seems to fall short when you got to play at band level ....all I know is I got the egnater m4 because I read it was'nt having any problems with noise when using the axe fx .....so I get the M4 the other day at 3 p.m and I got a show at 9 p.m .....so I throw it in the rack and start programing cause I want to use it at the show ....so on all my presets in the axe fx I just replace the amp with a effects loop and I just save on the M4 what channel I want it on and adjust levels and eq ....so I get to the show and I'm thinking I hope this is not a disaster cause it was crazy to do that right before a show and it might suck ......right from the first song til the last I was like oh my god this is what i've been missing ....the sound was amazing....i was'nt thinking I need to tweak this or that ....the effects on the axe fx sounded better with the tube amp too which really surprised me.....I posted it because I know some guys have felt the same way about something missing live with amp sims and thinking the axe fx II might be the ticket but in the end all you might need is a good tube amp with the axe fx for effects ....like I said it sounds great on recordings but live to me it's missing something

What is going on here, seriously? I for one take everyone's experience and opinions into account regarding all types of gear. Most of this gear you rarely get a chance to hear and play without buying ahead of time. This is a pretty thorough, fair and balanced review of ONE GUY'S take on HIS experience with the AxeFX for LIVE usage. Guess what, this isn't the first time I've heard a similar account of AxeFX experience and I'm sure it will not be the last... SO WHAT! Have we lost all sense of balance and fairness on this forum?
I mean, this guy is basically using Ty Tabor's rig -- are we going to call out Ty because he's not completely comitted to the AxeFX yet?
How about Alex Lifeson?
And dismissing Jay Mitchell's departure from this forum? That guy KNEW his stuff. He also could explain differences in tone and feel with both extreme technical detail (if you wanted it) and layman's terms in a way that I found quite helpful. Sure, his approach was "pointed" and direct but he didn't mince words... neither does Cliff.
I personally think it's important to be able to discuss differences of opinion and experiences freely and openly here and on any gear forum. I also think a lot of the complaints that come through (on all aspects of the gear) actually help to bring out changes, fixes and enhancements / advancements.
I think everyone on here will agree the AxeFX is probably the best guitar processor on the market right now. To me, there is no equal - and I have tried them all. That alone is enough to make me endure what I consider a not-so-perfect initial release of the AxeFX II.
The apologists dismissing anyone and everyone who posts about issues with product unavailability, technical issues, general "attitude", etc... it's getting old.
Sort of turning into the LPF... agree or be banished.

"I think the Axe-FX community has just gotten far too sensitive. The Axe-FX community needs to stop acting like everyone that does not love the Axe-FX is automatically one of the small handful of douche bags that do troll these forums. " -- might as well extend that to people who DO LOVE the AxeFX lol...

 

[Scott Peterson]

Ok I'll try to say this better this time ....I've had the ultra over a year and played out every week and it worked fine ...most people said i had killer sound ....but to me something was always missing that I had with my tube rigs and I was tweaking all the time and I went back and forth with the frfr and amp setups ....I always like the amp set up better with the axe fx .... tried solid state power amps but the tube power amps always sounded better to me ....I tried to use the axe fx with a hughes and kettner access but had major noise issues ...the tone to me was better but the noise was a deal breaker .....axe fx II comes out and I say well maybe it will give me that sound I'm missing .....well you see how the release went down and how crazy it got so I got a little turned off by that but I started listening to the clips of the axe II and to me it did'nt really sound better than the axe fx .....it might be easier to dial in but I'm not sure it's got the missing piece I'm missing sound wise far as live.....the axe fx sounds great at low levels in studio monitors or listening on a stereo that's why it makes great recordings but to me it seems to fall short when you got to play at band level ....all I know is I got the egnater m4 because I read it was'nt having any problems with noise when using the axe fx .....so I get the M4 the other day at 3 p.m and I got a show at 9 p.m .....so I throw it in the rack and start programing cause I want to use it at the show ....so on all my presets in the axe fx I just replace the amp with a effects loop and I just save on the M4 what channel I want it on and adjust levels and eq ....so I get to the show and I'm thinking I hope this is not a disaster cause it was crazy to do that right before a show and it might suck ......right from the first song til the last I was like oh my god this is what i've been missing ....the sound was amazing....i was'nt thinking I need to tweak this or that ....the effects on the axe fx sounded better with the tube amp too which really surprised me.....I posted it because I know some guys have felt the same way about something missing live with amp sims and thinking the axe fx II might be the ticket but in the end all you might need is a good tube amp with the axe fx for effects ....like I said it sounds great on recordings but live to me it's missing something

That's great and I have no issue with it, nor have I ever said I did personally.

I still think it is silly to dismiss the "II" based on your experience with the Ultra. As I said in my first post on this thread - try it first. Your thread was about the II... which you haven't ever tried. The Ultra does not equal a II. They are different beasts.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Not to be a jerk, but I have to disagree, and I'm not usually one to be in disagreement with you Scott, but employees or not, as moderators of the official Fractal forum you are expected, by Cliff, to represent yourself in a certain way, or you're going to get the axe, and not the good one. Thus by default you are a representative, even if you don't want it.

Doesn't matter what you think or not. I am not a representative of any forum I am a moderator or admin of when I post. When I post in my moderator capacity, I note I am. Moderators keep behavior on the forums in check; period. End of responsibility. We do not screen for content. We do not - as is implied by some - remove content based on negative opinions. I do not do so, never have done so and never will do so.

When I post as myself and not in any formal capacity, I just post. I do not play the authority card with those that disagree with me. Disagree in a civil manner with me and nothing is at issue. I don't ever moderate on threads I am involved in posting within and do not moderate on folks I have strong personal issues with. I call in an objective moderator if something needs a look and do not influence their perception in any way if I do so.

By posting what you just did and I quoted, you misunderstand what a moderator does on a forum.

Your history with Jay - and really the subject of what you are posting around and about here - is your beef. Don't extend that to the entire moderator team who are unpaid and volunteers just trying to help out on a community they want to nurture. **Side note - attacking folks, even ex-moderators on this board is against the rules. There's been plenty of that sort of thing on this thread already.

All these implied biases that are tossed about as facts have no basis in any real reality. Anyone that thinks moderators have some 'power' are mistaken. There's nothing but scorn waiting for all your hours put in as a moderator. The perks are limited to folks calling you names and sending nasty PM's and emails.

Name the other moderators on this board. I'd bet that 99% of folks could not name more than 2-3 with out looking them up and of those they would name one is no longer moderating.

 

[hippietim]

That's great and I have no issue with it, nor have I ever said I did personally.

I still think it is silly to dismiss the "II" based on your experience with the Ultra. As I said in my first post on this thread - try it first. Your thread was about the II... which you haven't ever tried. The Ultra does not equal a II. They are different beasts.

Sorry but I have to disagree with you there. It is completely valid to dismiss the II based on his experience with the Ultra. And it is bordering on disrespectful to call his reasoning silly. If you don't like the Ultra, it is perfectly reasonable to think the II is not necessarily going to blow your mind as well. They are not different beasts IMO. The II shows more promise but it's not such a huge departure from the Ultra that it's a complete game changer (again all IMO). I've been contemplating sending my II back to be honest.

And you must consider the cost. The II is expensive! And if you want one now it's even more expensive. And that's just the processor. Getting a full rig adds another 40-60%. That's a lot of money. There is no place to try one. Getting one for 15 days is not sufficient unless you have the rest of the rig handy to try it with. So using one's past experience with a unit that has one of the same CPUs, most of the same features, made by the same company, etc. is completely reasonable and not silly at all.

Then there's the whole way that the sales have been handled and the way Fractal has been responding to folks. Certainly folks on the forum were over the top at times but the way Fractal has responded has been unprofessional and disrespectful at times. It has been very off-putting.

 

[axel]

What is going on here, seriously? I for one take everyone's experience and opinions into account regarding all types of gear. Most of this gear you rarely get a chance to hear and play without buying ahead of time. This is a pretty thorough, fair and balanced review of ONE GUY'S take on HIS experience with the AxeFX for LIVE usage. Guess what, this isn't the first time I've heard a similar account of AxeFX experience and I'm sure it will not be the last... SO WHAT! Have we lost all sense of balance and fairness on this forum?
I mean, this guy is basically using Ty Tabor's rig -- are we going to call out Ty because he's not completely comitted to the AxeFX yet?
How about Alex Lifeson?
And dismissing Jay Mitchell's departure from this forum? That guy KNEW his stuff. He also could explain differences in tone and feel with both extreme technical detail (if you wanted it) and layman's terms in a way that I found quite helpful. Sure, his approach was "pointed" and direct but he didn't mince words... neither does Cliff.
I personally think it's important to be able to discuss differences of opinion and experiences freely and openly here and on any gear forum. I also think a lot of the complaints that come through (on all aspects of the gear) actually help to bring out changes, fixes and enhancements / advancements.
I think everyone on here will agree the AxeFX is probably the best guitar processor on the market right now. To me, there is no equal - and I have tried them all. That alone is enough to make me endure what I consider a not-so-perfect initial release of the AxeFX II.
The apologists dismissing anyone and everyone who posts about issues with product unavailability, technical issues, general "attitude", etc... it's getting old.
Sort of turning into the LPF... agree or be banished.

"I think the Axe-FX community has just gotten far too sensitive. The Axe-FX community needs to stop acting like everyone that does not love the Axe-FX is automatically one of the small handful of douche bags that do troll these forums. " -- might as well extend that to people who DO LOVE the AxeFX lol...

I totally agree, I enjoy hearing the opinions of others regarding their equipment, good or bad. Wish things would lighten up around here.

 

[hippietim]

Doesn't matter what you think or not. I am not a representative of any forum I am a moderator or admin of when I post. When I post in my moderator capacity, I note I am. Moderators keep behavior on the forums in check; period. End of responsibility. We do not screen for content. We do not - as is implied by some - remove content based on negative opinions. I do not do so, never have done so and never will do so.

Scotty you do a great job. I agree 100% with what you said. However, we're talking about perception and reality here. Your reality is right on. But the perception people have is not illogical. I get that you don't work for Fractal. But regardless of what you or Fractal state what your roles as moderators are, the moderators most definitely appear to a lot of folks to be at least in part representatives of Fractal. On many manufacturers forums the mods/admins are actually employees.

There is absolutely no question that a lot of posts have been pulled, locked, etc. Only a moderator/admin can do that. The fact that in most cases nobody knows who performed the administrative action or sometimes even why it was done makes it pretty frustrating to a lot of folks. It has left a bad taste in a lot of mouths.

 

[Scott Peterson]

Sorry but I have to disagree with you there. It is completely valid to dismiss the II based on his experience with the Ultra. And it is bordering on disrespectful to call his reasoning silly. If you don't like the Ultra, it is perfectly reasonable to think the II is not necessarily going to blow your mind as well. They are not different beasts IMO. The II shows more promise but it's not such a huge departure from the Ultra that it's a complete game changer (again all IMO). I've been contemplating sending my II back to be honest.

And you must consider the cost. The II is expensive! And if you want one now it's even more expensive. And that's just the processor. Getting a full rig adds another 40-60%. That's a lot of money. There is no place to try one. Getting one for 15 days is not sufficient unless you have the rest of the rig handy to try it with. So using one's past experience with a unit that has one of the same CPUs, most of the same features, made by the same company, etc. is completely reasonable and not silly at all.

Then there's the whole way that the sales have been handled and the way Fractal has been responding to folks. Certainly folks on the forum were over the top at times but the way Fractal has responded has been unprofessional and disrespectful at times. It has been very off-putting.

You are mixing up different things and putting them in a surrey that doesn't add up; at least in terms of what I am saying.

My basic point is the same as it has always been. You cannot judge something without trying it.

End of lecture. I am not 'dismissing' anything, that's putting words in my mouth. I am saying that if you want to speak of something, at least try it first. Don't try "A" and conclude "C" with the assumption that A = B. As someone that has tried the Standard/Ultra/II - the II is a different thing. Redone modeling, totally different hardware. Is there some crossover? Yes. But the Ultra is not a "slightly minus II" any more than a II is a "Ultra+". The assumption that they are is inaccurate.

The Ultra does not equal what the II does or how it does it. They are different beasts.

Your other points: Is the II expensive? Yes. I never said it was not. I am not discussing cost, rig building, sales, Fractal response, or any other 'off putting'. You are. Others have used this a platform to leap off to rip on moderating or specific moderators they did not like. Irreverent to the topic and simply more forum e-cred gamesmanship.

The OP was talking about the II as if his experience with the Ultra versus a tube based rig defined the II. My point is try the II before you throw that out there. The rest of this is gamesmanship.

Tim - you know me. I'm not poking my nose in here to do anything other than to shine a light on folks mixing all sorts of malarkey into a negative atmosphere to make a point. The point is simple - before you decide what a piece of gear can or cannot do, try it first. NOTHING more.

 

[hippietim]

The "community" is a little bit of an over the top statement. No more than 2-3 guys total called the OP a troll. I pointed out that certain behavior can lead folks to that assumption. I don't sense anyone being 'sensitive' at all. I see a bunch of forum posturing and buffoonery.

Two or three guys on an entire busy forum like this calling someone a name (and the OP has clearly edited many posts in this thread which you may or may not be privy to before they were edited) does not define a community.

Speaking in such sweeping terms serves no purpose but to further the gamesmanship at hand. And no one can tell me there is no gamesmanship at play in this thread. It's like sport to some people. That's closer to what is happening on this thread. It's jockeying for position and poke fingers in other folks' eyes. Like it or not, that's how I read most of it.

When I said the community is overly sensitive I was not just referring to this thread. A number of folks have given the Axe-FX online community a reputation for being dismissive, over zealous, disrespectful, and just generally hyper sensitive to someone saying anything but positive things about their beloved Axe-FX. It is WAY more that 2-3 people that carry on like this. And it's not just here. They're on TGP and several other forums. And they are every bit as annoying as the extremely vocal folks in the other various camps: tubes uber alles , <insert brand here> fanboiz, <insert OS here> lovers/haters, etc. The Axe-FX threads seem to always turn into retarded little holy wars like the Klon, Dumble, etc. threads.

And the irony of my participation in this debate is not lost on me