The Power of Pre-EQ

I stumbled on the benefits of Pre-EQ around 1980-81. I was using a '79 Marshall JMP 2204 50w MKII with a DOD 6 Band Graphic EQ pedal with the curve set pretty much like this: \ \ . I had no idea what I was doing and it was just by total accident that I stumbled across this. But I will say it made that amp jump out and bite you.

I eventually had our bands sound man (15 years old by the way..... I was about 16) wire it directly into that input jack of my Marshall and secure it to the inside of the head. (What the hell was I thinking!). Now nobody could figure out how I got my tone! (See..... Eddie wasn't the only one thinking this way in 1980!)

I left it this way until about 1986 I think when I had Jim Demeter mod the amp.

I later wished I had just left it the way it was. Very cool tone.
 
Hey! The first "Cliff's Notes" post that Cliff has made that I can actually comprehend! Not complaining. Just a testament to my ignorance. :)
 
I been doing this for a long time. I've always placed clean boosts before my dirt pedals, training them into the amp input.

I've got a filter clean boost going into both drive blocks with 3db overall boost and a 1db peaking boost centered at 1750hz and a wide Q.

I also still have a TC Electronics Spark Boost->Barber LTD->Xotic AC+ going into the Axe II input. All to jazz the amps input and make it sing.

Incredible number of different tone colors you can get that way.
 
My first ever overdrive pedal by PEARL had a PEQ built in. That taught me so much about pre-EQ

Anyone remember amptone.com? The guy was, well, extreme, but he had the Pre-EQ/Distortion/Post-EQ subject well-covered.

In an extreme sense, a cocked-wah provides an example of what pre-EQ does.

Thats where I first read about it in depth.
 
I stumbled on the benefits of Pre-EQ around 1980-81. I was using a '79 Marshall JMP 2204 50w MKII with a DOD 6 Band Graphic EQ pedal with the curve set pretty much like this: \ \ . I had no idea what I was doing and it was just by total accident that I stumbled across this. But I will say it made that amp jump out and bite you.

I eventually had our bands sound man (15 years old by the way..... I was about 16) wire it directly into that input jack of my Marshall and secure it to the inside of the head. (What the hell was I thinking!). Now nobody could figure out how I got my tone! (See..... Eddie wasn't the only one thinking this way in 1980!)

I left it this way until about 1986 I think when I had Jim Demeter mod the amp.

I later wished I had just left it the way it was. Very cool tone.

I really used to dig crazy mods like that! Brings back some great memories.

As I've gotten older, I've slowly had all my amps returned to their stock glory. Part of getting old I guess. I've had my Princeton "black face" modded and restored twice lol
 
Thanks for the info. IIRC, the GEQ in the amp block is fixed at post distortion. Would it be possible to program it as user selectable pre/post distortion EQ inside the amp block???


As outlined in the MIMIC white-paper the fundamental paradigm of distorted guitar tone is EQ -> Distortion -> EQ. For higher gain tones the post-EQ is typically the tone stack and the Presence and Depth controls, when available. Therefore the user has access to the post-EQ but no control over the pre-EQ. One notable exception to this rule is the Mesa Mark series of amplifiers where the tone stack is located before the distortion.

I suppose the ultimate amplifier would be one with dedicated pre-EQ and post-EQ controls although I can imagine many guitar players with looks of bewilderment when presented with such an amp. Indeed I believe there was an amp years ago that had separate input and output graphic EQs. I'm thinking it was made by Seymour Duncan but it was a long time ago so I'm not really sure. I don't believe it was terribly successful.

So as we delve into the realms of higher gain tones we are the mercy of the amp designer and his choice of pre-EQ. The standard practice is to cut the lows before the distortion stages. There are various approaches to this: small coupling caps, partially bypassed cathodes, etc. These are simple methods and given the relatively simple nature of tube amps all we can really expect. Other popular pre-EQ techniques are shelving filters, i.e. the Marshall 470K, 470pF network and networks which roll off highs.

The pre-EQ, along with the post-EQ, shapes the tone when the amount of distortion is low. As the distortion increases the tone becomes more dependent upon the post-EQ. Anyone who has adjusted a Mesa Mark series amp will attest to the seeming ineffectiveness of the tone controls at higher gains. They will also attest to the affect the tone controls have on the feel.

So... the pre-EQ is an important part of the overall tone equation. We guitarists tend to focus upon the post-EQ and put graphic or parametric EQs after the amp but we neglect the pre-EQ. Therefore it is worthwhile to experiment with pre-EQ. The simplest approach to start with is using a graphic EQ before the amp block. Note how boosting or cutting certain bands affects the tone and feel. Note how the effect changes as the gain is increased or decreased.

One popular studio technique in the 80's was to put a parametric EQ before an amp and boost a narrow band of frequencies. This gives a slight mid-emphasis to the sound and can be useful in helping the guitars stand out in a mix. This technique seems to have been lost over the years. Years ago Micheal Sweet from Stryper showed me the frequencies he used and IIRC he boosted around 800 Hz about 6 dB. I don't remember the Q but I would start around 1.4. Incidentally the frequencies he were boosting are just about the same as the frequencies that are cut by the tone stack. So when playing softly the net result is a flatter EQ. As you play harder the input EQ becomes less effective and the tone becomes more scooped.

Pre-EQ can make amps sound warmer, or tighten the bass. It can be used to increase brightness without becoming harsh. Pre-EQ is also very useful with amps on the verge of breakup or mildly overdriven. Experiment with boosting frequencies to give your leads a more vocal character or make them more unique.
 
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Thanks for taking the time to post on all of these varied topics Cliff! Very useful and informative. :)
 
... Years ago Micheal Sweet from Stryper showed me the frequencies he used and IIRC he boosted around 800 Hz about 6 dB. I don't remember the Q but I would start around 1.4. Incidentally the frequencies he were boosting are just about the same as the frequencies that are cut by the tone stack. So when playing softly the net result is a flatter EQ. As you play harder the input EQ becomes less effective and the tone becomes more scooped.

Pre-EQ can make amps sound warmer, or tighten the bass. It can be used to increase brightness without becoming harsh. Pre-EQ is also very useful with amps on the verge of breakup or mildly overdriven. Experiment with boosting frequencies to give your leads a more vocal character or make them more unique.

Thank you once again Sir Cliff - can't wait to master and implement pre-EQ! :encouragement:
 
As outlined in the MIMIC white-paper the fundamental paradigm of distorted guitar tone is EQ -> Distortion -> EQ.

Truth.

See also Michael Hoffman (AmpTone.com), "True "Secret" of Amp Tone - EQ>Dist and Power Attenuators".

The first principle of amp tone, the first thing every beginning guitarist ought to be taught, is the sequence

eq1
preamp distortion
eq2
power-tube saturation
eq3


That sequence is the gear equivalent of learning the E and A power-chords in the realm of playing the guitar -- yet few guitarists know it. Just as there are books on "how to play the guitar", there should be books "how to play a guitar amp rig". There are books about guitar effects, and other books about guitar amps, and other books about guitars, and other books about recording the guitar.


True "secret" of amp tone - eq>dist and power attenuators
 
I had an Akai G-Drive. It was my fav pedal until I discovered the Blackstone. I still regret getting rid of it.

I think that may be what Cliff was referring to. It had large faders (at least 8 each) for pre & post eq, so it was a big pedal. Really hard to find now.
 
Yes, yes, yes, yes.

I learned about this from the TBR series from Rivera and then the Rocktron preamps of the 90's - Voodu Valve in particular. You HAD to shape the pre-EQ before the preamp in the VV and the after the amp to get the tones but once you did - BOOM. It was the secret to that box.

Rivera's TBR heads (I had the TBR-1SL and TBR-2SL) were fitted with Pre-EQ; Paul Rivera called it "P-Comp". I didn't understand it much back then, but I learned by trial and error. Very powerful; fast forward to now with the Fractal and fully configurable PEQ blocks placed where you like and it's a WONDERFUL world that awaits anyone stepping into it.

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Those Rivera's were great amps. Took a while to dial them in, but when you did, they were great. Heavy though...My back still hurts from lugging it around..LOL
 
Thank you so much for this info!!

I knew I was still missing something in my tone and now that I've heard the difference, I most certainly was.

I added a Xotic EP Booster before the AxeFX as an attempt at a pre-eq. I had to back off on my input level, so I wasn't clipping but that's it. That was the missing ingredient for me. Perhaps there is more to the pedal than a pre-eq, but if it wasn't for this thread I wouldn't have been in this pre-eq space to even attempt it.

It is so easy to A/B the difference it makes by kicking on and off the pedal.. it is literally night and day. No other changes to my presets, just add that shaping of your tone before the amp and it rocks!!! It does wonders to my clean, crunch and leads, everything comes to life.
 
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