the Eventide H90 leak reminds us of how good we have it with FM3

TubeStack said:
@2112 could knock it out in a couple of hours.
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I'd need some pretty good coffee for that :p

I've done a bunch of H9/Eclipse/H3000 style presets and blocks in the past and will do more in the future. Several of the new Plex Delay types (Echo Hall, Occult Verb) are based on these. Cliff added the Dual Detune Delay in the pitch block which allows for some H3000 detune sounds that the Eclipse/H9/H90 don't do, since they don't have cross-feedback. There's also these blocks;

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...1-ada-mp-1-chorus-eventide-micropitch.178419/

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...tress-tc2290-chorus-sony-spiral-delay.186796/

And this Undulator patch - https://axechange.fractalaudio.com/detail.php?preset=9768

On the flip-side, the H90 does some pretty unique things and the algorithms come out of the box pretty fine tuned and curated for specific use cases which are going to appeal to certain people. Ultimately they're pretty different products. Choosing gear to make guitar noises doesn't have to be a zero-sum game, more is more right?
 
FPFL said:
I think your analogy is terrible at best. The FM3 is not locked into being something the way the H9 or the H90 or an SSL is. It has no problems if you only use it for FX. The levels can match +4 or -10, the I/O is fantastic, the CPU is powerful, the FX and routing choices are many, and the interface is great.

The H9 was initially fun but quickly a dog of a unit with beloved and classic presets trapped in a slow interface and a trying bluetooth app.
It was on but has long since left, many, many boards for this reason. The H90 was a great idea... 8 years ago.

I think there is a generation of people with deep brand love for Eventide b/c they were the inarguable gold standard in the era of big racks and b/c, as you say, they are very good at what they do.

That said, they've lost the plot with competitive innovation... innovation which was once their hallmark.

It's apparent they are as much a brand like Harley Davidson today, trading on the romance of the past, shuffling around the same few classic
sounds, making incremental tweaks in different form factors as "new". Am I really supposed to go wild for parallel processing of two FX in 2022? It's a bit sad.
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AGAIN, it’s not intended to be used as a complete fx solution so you are comparing apples to giraffes.
The beauty in all this is you don’t have to use eventide products. If the FM3 works for you, USE THAT. That doesn’t make it “better”, it makes it better FOR YOU. These are creative tools, not an Olympic sport. Use what inspires you.

Eventide products actually work really well with FAS. I have an H9 on my board and switch h9 programs on a scene by scene basis. I also have the H9 sending tap tempo to the FM9 so it all syncs nice. This is what inspires ME to play.
 
machin3god said:
I think an H90 could work great with the FM3, all these amazing Eventide effects could be inserted into the chain. I am seriously considering getting one.
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My H9 is sitting in that spot now. Working on getting a H90 as we speak.

Not only will it compliment it well but it can take some heavy lifting off the FM3s processor and ultimately expand the rig. A nice lush verb and delay coupled with the modulation and whatever else in the eventide algos would be quite taxing on an FM3 preset.
 
My H9 was the perfect expansion for my Ax2 before my Ax3 came along. I used it for all post mods (midi controlled) which worked perfectly as I never engage more than one mod at a time. Once Ax3 came along I could not bare to part with it (nor Ax2 lol). Still have it in the Ax3 loop for occasional differently flavoured ready made fx. I kinda like swiss army knife type one at a time multifx - I also have an L6-M5 which is another keeper. Can't see myself upgrading to H90 though - need to start saving for Ax4!
 
JoKeR III said:
The H9 has always been able to run multiple algorithms at once but limited to combinations in pre-existing presets.
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I think you're confusing effects with algorithms. The H9 has never been able to run more than one algo at once (which is why many who buy into the H9 ecosystem have multiple H9s). An algo may be a combination of several effects, but it's still only capable of one algo at a time.

Can't remember where it was, but I read that the way their system is designed, you can only have a total of 11 parameters - so if you have an algo with chorus, delay, and reverb (I think it's called the ModVerbEcho or something to that effect), then those 11 parameters are divided between those three effects. So even when you can have multiple effects on one algo, they become very simplistic and, IMO, not representative of what makes the algos as a whole special, when you compare that to something like their shimmer reverb or blackhole reverb.

In any case, I think since I've become a Fractal fanboi, I tend to forget that the amp market and pedal market are still going very strong so, while I know that I personally have no need or interest in this unit, I can definitely see it being enticing to someone who doesn't want to spend $1000 on two H9s (a max+core).
 
Fractal, Eventide and Strymon are the kings of digital guitar (multi) effects. Strymon and Eventide would have a more difficult time emulating FAS effects than the other way around, although they would be approximations and not exact. Far more controllers/parameters and mix combinations of FAS effects are available. I love effects and like them all, but for a guitar player you have way more options with Fractal. It's easy to add the others for a dream rig but for me portability is really important.
 
Let me give props to a different company that gets less respect than it deserves and pairs well with FM3 - Boss! My FM3 sits next to Boss gear for a reason.

Boss also plays the low/mid/high market segmentation game, which is just smart business as companies get older, but it also delivers entirely new things with a steady cadence. They don't all work out, but I respect the persistence over time to experiment and test the market.

There is no company who I've bought more from than Boss b.c like Fractal their stuff is well made and well designed for its use. The FM3 and an SD700 out to two 1x12 cabs is my goto "amp" for live... but I have a Katana Head at the ready as a backup.

I'm also not above buying things for old time romance, dressed up with a little innovation, I've got 4 shiny Waza pedals (which is also partly @2112 's fault!) The SD-1W is the boost I tweak everything else into being... so why fight it, and as a fan of "80s cleans" the Dimension is a gold standard.

The RC-600 is the best looper I've ever used and I have it wired to my FM3 for when inspiration strikes. Even just having verse/chorus/bridge available with discrete buttons (and as long as you need recording times) makes it worth the effort. You don't have to launch rockets with it - as some do. Covid got me into writing with a looper b/c there was no band practice for a long, long time.
 
Seems like a decent Reverb.com used buy. I've found that the BBD and tape delays in the Fractal to be better than Strymon, UAD, and Eventide. I do have to tweak the Fractal filters on the analog emulations to get the sound I would expect from my analog hardware units but I have the capability to do that in the Axe which is super important. For example, I really need to play with the filters in the Memory Man emulations to get what I'd expect, but then I just save the preset and move on.

As for the crazy crystal delays and mega stereo delays, they sound cool but stick out like a sore thumb on recordings, so I barely use them for anything. They are fun to play with though.

Reverbs: Fractal algo is too thin for me, Eventide is too thick, Strymon is better, but IRs on the Fractal do it for me.
 
thud_peterson said:
As for the crazy crystal delays and mega stereo delays, they sound cool but stick out like a sore thumb on recordings, so I barely use them for anything. They are fun to play with though.
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This is what I'm thinking, like they are extremely obvious "big effects" if used in a song or live band setting - maybe too much for me - but would be fun to play around and experiment/write with at home.

However, I do love the size and weight of the H90 in general as a potential pedalboard-expander/utility pedal for its more basic effects.
 
thud_peterson said:
Seems like a decent Reverb.com used buy. I've found that the BBD and tape delays in the Fractal to be better than Strymon, UAD, and Eventide. I do have to tweak the Fractal filters on the analog emulations to get the sound I would expect from my analog hardware units but I have the capability to do that in the Axe which is super important. For example, I really need to play with the filters in the Memory Man emulations to get what I'd expect, but then I just save the preset and move on.

As for the crazy crystal delays and mega stereo delays, they sound cool but stick out like a sore thumb on recordings, so I barely use them for anything. They are fun to play with though.

Reverbs: Fractal algo is too thin for me, Eventide is too thick, Strymon is better, but IRs on the Fractal do it for me.
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I agree, there is a difference in reverb "weight" for lack of a better term.
I wonder how we can tweak for that? There must be a way.
I'm just a musician, not a signal processing expert though. I look to others for help there.
 
Well I got my pre-order in. :tearsofjoy:

The H90 will be a really useful portable solution for me, and also can sit nicer in situ with a bunch of other pedals and doohickies.

I've also got a bunch of pedals to flog which it will easily replace. I don't really see it as an either/or situation. H90 and FM3 would be a pretty killer combo - although I confess, an FM9 is more appealling to me because of the extra footswitches.

I don't think I'll ever get to the point where I take my Axe III Turbo out with me. Maybe, but I'd much prefer one of the floor units.

Fractal delays and verbs are every bit as good as the Eventides.
 
FPFL said:
Not a hater, just sad that they don't really push the envelope anymore. They used to! I was a kid in the 90s dreaming of big racks and they were kings.

Today they are in some lesser Line6 remix mode, re-selling "the hits" at different price points in different form factors.
Nothing wrong with that, but it's hardly exciting. For as lower to mid market as L6 is, they are pushing for new and offer a good interface.
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they pushed the envelope along time ago. The collection of algorithms they have are stunning. Over the years I've owned many
of their rack units and they are in a class of their own. Not to mention they have some of the best audio conversion in the business.☮️
 
FPFL said:
Let me give props to a different company that gets less respect than it deserves and pairs well with FM3 - Boss! My FM3 sits next to Boss gear for a reason.

Boss also plays the low/mid/high market segmentation game, which is just smart business as companies get older, but it also delivers entirely new things with a steady cadence. They don't all work out, but I respect the persistence over time to experiment and test the market.

There is no company who I've bought more from than Boss b.c like Fractal their stuff is well made and well designed for its use. The FM3 and an SD700 out to two 1x12 cabs is my goto "amp" for live... but I have a Katana Head at the ready as a backup.

I'm also not above buying things for old time romance, dressed up with a little innovation, I've got 4 shiny Waza pedals (which is also partly @2112 's fault!) The SD-1W is the boost I tweak everything else into being... so why fight it, and as a fan of "80s cleans" the Dimension is a gold standard.

The RC-600 is the best looper I've ever used and I have it wired to my FM3 for when inspiration strikes. Even just having verse/chorus/bridge available with discrete buttons (and as long as you need recording times) makes it worth the effort. You don't have to launch rockets with it - as some do. Covid got me into writing with a looper b/c there was no band practice for a long, long time.
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I still have my copper face GX700 :)
 
I really liked my H9 Max, except being limited to one algorithm at a time. I would definitely consider an H90 for my main live rig (tube based half stack, 4CM), but I also think the FM3 would be a better choice for me. Then it can also be a fairly quick backup if my amp dies.
 
I still have an H9. It sounds great. Editing blows though. It appears that the H90 is a lot more friendly to edit. The demos for it sound fantastic. The Eventide stuff isn't a great value for someone that just wants meat and potatoes delay/mod/verb - there's lots of cheaper ways to pull that off. But if you want to do more sophisticated or trippy stuff, the Eventide stuff is pretty appealing. A lot of people have used H9's with FM3 rigs. The H90 looks like quite a step up with dual effects and some additional routing options.

If I had to choose between an H90 and an FM3 - I'd go with the FM3 without hesitation - total no-brainer there. But I can't say that I'm not interested in grabbing an H90.

IMO, compared to Strymon products, the H90 is a great value. How many Strymon boxes do you have to buy to get a full complement of delay/mod/verb effects? The most obvious comparison would be to the TimeLine, Mobius, and BigSky. That would cost a lot more money than the H90. You don't get pitch shifting though.
 
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