TC MIMIQ?

stereotactic said:
I think that’s the closet we might get to a true doubling effect: multiple delays within a few milliseconds, crossfaded between them and which only change when muted, and a very short fixed delay on the other side. That way you can be ahead or behind, just like with real doubling. And if the delay times are stepping to new values while muted, you wouldn’t get the chorus sounding effect. Does that make sense? If so, it should not be so hard to do in the Axe, right?
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If the crossfading occurs in the middle of a sustained note, it will be a noticeable artifact. Bakerman's AxeFX II preset did the crossfading only when a new note is triggered. Getting an envelope to trigger properly on guitar audio is difficult however. Even the Mimiq doesn't always do it properly. Also, true double tracked guitars sound just different enough that they avoid phasing. It's very difficult to avoid phasing when simulating double tracking.
 
I guess ultimately we can have the sound of true double tracking, done with multiple guitar players, or overdubs, or we can have the sound of virtual double tracking via effects, which likely will sound a bit different for all the reasons this thread has been about, but perhaps that sound will become its own cool and unique thing.

Take the univibe for example.... it was supposed to emulate the sound of a rotating speaker I believe, and frankly it did a pretty poor job at that, BUT, it certainly became a rather cool, unique and iconic sound in its own right, with decades of emulations, clones etc.

So perhaps down the road, we will see threads about people wanting to achieve that "vintage" artificial double track sound like the "classic" Mimiq pedals used to do back in the 2020's LOL
 
Bakerman said:
Timing the muting and time changes might be tricky. Maybe not impossible, but easier to just use as many separate taps as needed in one or more delay/MTD blocks.
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Thanks, understood, but then how would random switching between the fixed delay taps be best accomplished?
 
I have one and found it sounds fantastic splitting the signal into two separate amps. It sounds huge. Comparisons to actual double tracking are missing the mark; it's a live tool, not a studio shortcut. I don't have four arms so whether it is as good as two guitar tracks isn't relevant in a live setting. ;)

IIRC, TC actually recommends placing it post distortion, but I haven't tried it that way. Might make sense if you are using a single preamp into a stereo poweramp; IMO, if you are using two full amp heads (or combos) I'd rather run it in front of both preamps since the difference in how they sound will add to the "two guitarists" effect. Same goes for a two amp block preset, but in that case you should use different amps or at least different settings so they sound different.

I actually found the Mimiq when I went looking into what Petrucci had changed in his rig lately. His rhythm sound was huge and amazing on the last tour. IMO, it has definitely made a big improvement to his sound.
 
lqdsnddist said:
So perhaps down the road, we will see threads about people wanting to achieve that "vintage" artificial double track sound like the "classic" Mimiq pedals used to do back in the 2020's LOL
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Well it kinda already happened. ADT (automatic double tracking) was thought up in the mid 60s at Abbey Road Studios for The Beatle's vocals. While it doesn't really sound like double tracking either, it became a cool effect where there's plugins simulating it.
 
Pinkycramps said:
I was watching the Doug Doppler/John Petrucci live podcast with Cooper Carter, Uncle Ben, Doug West, Sterling Ball and some other guys. During a discussion about JP's rig John talked about the TC MIMIQ pedal and what a great tool it is.

He uses it split out to two seperate Boogie amps, that both run back the the AXE III for FX via the loops. I am wondering about using it in front of the AXE into a dual amp rig. I think it would probably get wired into two separate inputs 1+2.

Does anyone use it, and if so, do you use it this way? Is there anything in the AXE that replicates this the same way, or is this pedal really that much better at creating that doubled guitar effect? I have tried (unsuccessfully) to create a double tracked guitar sound live, and I thinking about giving this pedal a shot.
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what podcast was this? you have a link?
 
It was a live event on Youtube and Facebook. Cooper Carter had a thread on it and posted the link to join it, but I don't see a recording of it on Doug's YT channel yet though. His other ones have always been posted, so I imagine this one will get posted too at some point.
 
Bakerman said:
Timing the muting and time changes might be tricky. Maybe not impossible, but easier to just use as many separate taps as needed in one or more delay/MTD blocks.
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Bakerman, sorry I forgot you had posted a preset that does this before. Has anything in the firmware updates since you created that preset made it easier to make the switching smoother?
 
Pinkycramps said:
It was a live event on Youtube and Facebook. Cooper Carter had a thread on it and posted the link to join it, but I don't see a recording of it on Doug's YT channel yet though. His other ones have always been posted, so I imagine this one will get posted too at some point.
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Yes, Doug's just doing some editing to tighten it up and it'll be live on YouTube.
 
stereotactic said:
Bakerman, sorry I forgot you had posted a preset that does this before. Has anything in the firmware updates since you created that preset made it easier to make the switching smoother?
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Nothing in updates, but I worked on it today. Instead of multiple delay times for the un-pitched signal, this just switches between two detuned pitch voices, one with a few ms delay. That seems to eliminate or greatly reduce any switching noise. Comparing with the old one, I'm not sure having more than a couple delay times adds much realism for something like 10-12 ms maximum separation.

(still Axe-FX II)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/n0qw7km3i66m8i4/doubler-5-16-20.mp3
 
I have the Mimiq as well and I really like it. However I don’t use it because it just complicates my setup. I may pull It back out and compare it to the patches posted.
 
I'm not sure if I understand this correctly, but maybe someone can correct me here with Mimiq or Haas type delays- one side ends of being perceived as louder because the signal is hitting one ear before the other (because of the tiny delay inherent to the effect), but in reality both signals are the same strength- is that correct?

And if it is, should someone using a Haas delay with a live setup who is getting this perceived but not actual imbalance try to reduce level on the "louder" side to balance it out?

I use a Mimiq on my Axe rig, and I love it, but it definitely comes off as louder on the left when playing on headphones. Not sure if I'm maybe not setting it up correctly, or if I should be applying some negative db to try and balance it out. Any advice is appreciated!
 
Adman103 said:
I use a Mimiq on my Axe rig, and I love it, but it definitely comes off as louder on the left when playing on headphones. Not sure if I'm maybe not setting it up correctly, or if I should be applying some negative db to try and balance it out. Any advice is appreciated!
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the output meters on the axe should tell you if one side is louder. (am assumimg that you’re running the mimic in front of the axe
 
Adman103 said:
I use a Mimiq on my Axe rig, and I love it, but it definitely comes off as louder on the left when playing on headphones. Not sure if I'm maybe not setting it up correctly, or if I should be applying some negative db to try and balance it out. Any advice is appreciated!
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What inputs are you using and how are they set? Does one side sound quieter when bypassed?

My preferred settings are 1 dub, the effect and dry knobs on full, and tightness adjusted to taste. It doesn't have any discernable volume difference that I've noticed.
 
Bakerman said:
Nothing in updates, but I worked on it today. Instead of multiple delay times for the un-pitched signal, this just switches between two detuned pitch voices, one with a few ms delay. That seems to eliminate or greatly reduce any switching noise. Comparing with the old one, I'm not sure having more than a couple delay times adds much realism for something like 10-12 ms maximum separation.

(still Axe-FX II)

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/s/n0qw7km3i66m8i4/doubler-5-16-20.mp3
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Thanks for the clip, I think it sounds very good, more subtle than I thought it would be, which is good. But don’t you think more taps might make it more realistic/double tracking like?
 
flying_walrus said:
the output meters on the axe should tell you if one side is louder. (am assumimg that you’re running the mimic in front of the axe
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Meters look ok- balanced coming out.

jb1592 said:
What inputs are you using and how are they set? Does one side sound quieter when bypassed?

My preferred settings are 1 dub, the effect and dry knobs on full, and tightness adjusted to taste. It doesn't have any discernable volume difference that I've noticed.
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I'm running it in the loop, so using the Output 4/Input 4 in stereo, of course. It sounds amazing, but seems more present on one side. Maybe it's in my head. I have it set up for the W/D/W setting, and effect and dry about 3/4 of the way up, so it's about unity gain. I found when I put the dry and effect knobs all the way up, there was a volume boost. I'll have to try different dub settings- I wonder if that's messing with it.

In this quite excellent video by @Danny Danzi , he mentions the whole latency/volume perception thing at about 2:18.

HAAS Delay

He also mentions the advantage of the Enhancer block in the Axe being that it's balanced between L and R, but man, the Mimiq just makes it so W I D E sounding, and the thing sounds like a million bucks as is- I'm just wondering if it's best to try to level out L and R, or to leave it be. My hunch is leave it be, because both sides are actually balanced, but I'm not positive. I have not gotten any complaints from our sound guy about levels, but he comments all the time about how good it sounds with the stereo spread I'm getting with the Mimiq, so maybe better left alone... I'll mess with the dub settings and placement of the loop some tonight and try and report back.
 
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Adman103 said:
I'll have to try different dub settings- I wonder if that's messing with it.
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I definitely get the best results for me at "1" (tightness around 10:00). With 2 and 3, the delay times start to get crowded and I get phasing and noticeable Haas effects. At 1 though, I find the signals are far enough apart that I don't get that and it sounds wide and balanced.
 
GlennO said:
I definitely get the best results for me at "1" (tightness around 10:00). With 2 and 3, the delay times start to get crowded and I get phasing and noticeable Haas effects. At 1 though, I find the signals are far enough apart that I don't get that and it sounds wide and balanced.
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I noticed the same thing.
 
GlennO said:
I definitely get the best results for me at "1" (tightness around 10:00). With 2 and 3, the delay times start to get crowded and I get phasing and noticeable Haas effects. At 1 though, I find the signals are far enough apart that I don't get that and it sounds wide and balanced.
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I will definitely give that a try then- thank you!
 
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