TC MIMIQ?

[sprint]

Forgot to ask, using it on one amp only, I’m assuming you mean mono in, mono out, right?

Sorry for the lack of precision:

• Context of usage is a dual amp setup where one amp is panned hard left ans one is panned hard right.
• The concept is to have Mimiq running in mono and affecting only one of the 2 amps (ie the left side amp as described below).
• So connect Mimiq in mono - Loop Out-Left to Mimiq-In Mono, Mimiq Out-Mono to Loop Left-In.
• Ensure your Loop Input block Only feeds the left side part of your signal chain into the amp.
• Set Mimiq to 0% Dry, 90% effect, 50% tightness, 1 dub.

 

[sprint]

fyi Mimiq comes in 2 formats, one
of which is a mini mono version. Knowing what I know now, and the way I feel it works
best (running mono before 1 of 2 hard panned amps), I think the mini would have been the better, and less expensive, choice for me initially.

Again, a 100% wet delay with wavering 25-35ms time before one of the 2 hard panned amps gets close but the Mimiq has some special sauce which I suspect is the randomness of how the wet signal diverts from dry. Putting an enhancer block before dual amps can kind of get in the ball park also. Using these options after a single amp can add some nice width but I think loses the true doubling effect when placed in a post position particularly with distorted tones (as with other pitch effects - ie harmonizing which, for distorted tones, I have found only works well INTO one side of a dual amp config).

I'd like to experiment more with the delay optiom to see if a more ramdom but controllable signal "wavering" could be done to simulate the Mimiq's tightness control (which would probanly be better named "looseness").

 

[stereotactic]

Sorry for the lack of precision:

• Context of usage is a dual amp setup where one amp is panned hard left ans one is panned hard right.
• The concept is to have Mimiq running in mono and affecting only one of the 2 amps (ie the left side amp as described below).
• So connect Mimiq in mono - Loop Out-Left to Mimiq-In Mono, Mimiq Out-Mono to Loop Left-In.
• Ensure your Loop Input block Only feeds the left side part of your signal chain into the amp.
• Set Mimiq to 0% Dry, 90% effect, 50% tightness, 1 dub.

Great, thanks, I thought that’s what you meant. Just making sure.

I wish TC were as precise in their instructions. they never mention the possibility of cancelling in a stereo in/out application. I’m not even sure why they have stereo in if the cancellation and tone shift is going to be that dramatic.

 

[stereotactic]

fyi Mimiq comes in 2 formats, one
of which is a mini mono version. Knowing what I know now, and the way I feel it works
best (running mono before 1 of 2 hard panned amps), I think the mini would have been the better, and less expensive, choice for me initially.

Again, a 100% wet delay with wavering 25-35ms time before one of the 2 hard panned amps gets close but the Mimiq has some special sauce which I suspect is the randomness of how the wet signal diverts from dry. Putting an enhancer block before dual amps can kind of get in the ball park also. Using these options after a single amp can add some nice width but I think loses the true doubling effect when placed in a post position particularly with distorted tones (as with other pitch effects - ie harmonizing which, for distorted tones, I have found only works well INTO one side of a dual amp config).

I'd like to experiment more with the delay optiom to see if a more ramdom but controllable signal "wavering" could be done to simulate the Mimiq's tightness control (which would probanly be better named "looseness").

More good information, makes sense, much more so than the TC manual, thanks. But one thing which is missing in the mono signal path configuration is that there is no possibility of the non Mimiq side being ahead of the Mimiq side. But I guess I could put a fixed, say 6ms, delay on the non Mimiq side. I was hoping the Mimiq was doing that in the stereo in/out configuration, but I have no way of knowing if it was actually doing that along with its other functioning...

 

[GlennO]

It doesn’t. For live use, that would add an undesirable latency. In the studio you can slip the audio if you want that effect. Slip the dry side back, then both sides forward.

 

[stereotactic]

It doesn’t. For live use, that would add an undesirable latency. In the studio you can slip the audio if you want that effect. Slip the dry side back, then both sides forward.

I know what you’re saying, but for live use I was perfectly fine with a fixed delay of 6 ms on one side of my H3000. Maybe I’m naturally just a little ahead of the beat and it worked for me...

 

[stereotactic]

fyi Mimiq comes in 2 formats, one
of which is a mini mono version. Knowing what I know now, and the way I feel it works
best (running mono before 1 of 2 hard panned amps), I think the mini would have been the better, and less expensive, choice for me initially.

Again, a 100% wet delay with wavering 25-35ms time before one of the 2 hard panned amps gets close but the Mimiq has some special sauce which I suspect is the randomness of how the wet signal diverts from dry. Putting an enhancer block before dual amps can kind of get in the ball park also. Using these options after a single amp can add some nice width but I think loses the true doubling effect when placed in a post position particularly with distorted tones (as with other pitch effects - ie harmonizing which, for distorted tones, I have found only works well INTO one side of a dual amp config).

I'd like to experiment more with the delay optiom to see if a more ramdom but controllable signal "wavering" could be done to simulate the Mimiq's tightness control (which would probanly be better named "looseness").

I tried the Mimiq in mono left side only, with your settings. Big improvement, no cancellation but a tad darker sounding, even with the pedal bypassed it still loses some of the high end detail. Could be the pedal circuitry or the tiny L side latency from coming out of the box. And that thing eats batteries.

I may still use it, but it sure would be nice if there was a way to do it in the Axe so there would be no tonal difference. Which is one of many great things about the Axe; no signal degradation, level or noise problems all the way through the entire the signal chain...

 

[Danny Danzi]

Meters look ok- balanced coming out.



I'm running it in the loop, so using the Output 4/Input 4 in stereo, of course. It sounds amazing, but seems more present on one side. Maybe it's in my head. I have it set up for the W/D/W setting, and effect and dry about 3/4 of the way up, so it's about unity gain. I found when I put the dry and effect knobs all the way up, there was a volume boost. I'll have to try different dub settings- I wonder if that's messing with it.

In this quite excellent video by @Danny Danzi , he mentions the whole latency/volume perception thing at about 2:18.

HAAS Delay

He also mentions the advantage of the Enhancer block in the Axe being that it's balanced between L and R, but man, the Mimiq just makes it so W I D E sounding, and the thing sounds like a million bucks as is- I'm just wondering if it's best to try to level out L and R, or to leave it be. My hunch is leave it be, because both sides are actually balanced, but I'm not positive. I have not gotten any complaints from our sound guy about levels, but he comments all the time about how good it sounds with the stereo spread I'm getting with the Mimiq, so maybe better left alone... I'll mess with the dub settings and placement of the loop some tonight and try and report back.

Thanks for the mention and the reference. I do a have a question for any of you doing this live that I just can't get my head around. If we run through a mono PA, you're going to get a smeared/phased artifact using this sort of thing even if your soundman mic's both sides.

The other issue is, as good as it may sound to YOU on stage, the only benefit is for those in the middle. Those on the sides are going to get the phased sound. To me, this just sounds bad no matter who does it. Stereo seems to only benefit the players that just love that sound. I really don't think it sounds good in the mains, and to me, there is nothing worse than a stereo sound summed to mono. I've stopped running my stereo rigs live for years now unless I'm in a bigger venue or with a sound company that does stereo. Even with a stereo PA though....people are only getting one side and depending on what your stereo effects consist of, they could be getting the effected side which in reality, just sounds bad.

Example, I got a sort of John Sykes type tone here using our Enhancement block with my XL+. The first time the lick plays in stereo. Then, the second time mono. Listen to what happens to the tone once it's summed to mono. There is no escaping this for me, and it's certainly not a tone I would want live EVER.

Enhance Stereo to Mono

So, my question to you guys doing this claiming success is, how are you eliminating this artifact if the PA is mono? Also, if you are loud enough to hear your stereo rig, you must be deafening loud in the venue you are playing in. Raw stage volume to me, has always been a no no and has degraded the quality of both my live sound of my entire band, as well as being way more difficult as I am also the singer/lead guitarist. Overly loud guitarists need to try being the singer to where they actually have to sing and not yell over the sound. In one song, you'll bow down to your singer and apologize for killing him with volume once YOU'RE the guy singing. LOL! I was young and loud once.....and then I became the singer as well. HUGE changes had to be made. Haha!

 

[GlennO]

So, my question to you guys doing this claiming success is, how are you eliminating this artifact if the PA is mono?

I'm not sure if you're asking about the TC Mimiq or the AxeFX enhancer. But, On the Mimiq try setting the Dubs switch to 1. One the AxeFX enhancer block, try using the Modern mode for the enhancer. That should collapse to mono without phasing.

 

[Danny Danzi]

I'm not sure if you're asking about the TC Mimiq or the AxeFX enhancer. But, On the Mimiq try setting the Dubs switch to 1. One the AxeFX enhancer block, try using the Modern mode for the enhancer. That should collapse to mono without phasing.

Actually, I was looking for answers to both and you hooked me up. Thanks, will try that!

 

[Adman103]

Thanks for the mention and the reference. I do a have a question for any of you doing this live that I just can't get my head around. If we run through a mono PA, you're going to get a smeared/phased artifact using this sort of thing even if your soundman mic's both sides.

The other issue is, as good as it may sound to YOU on stage, the only benefit is for those in the middle. Those on the sides are going to get the phased sound. To me, this just sounds bad no matter who does it. Stereo seems to only benefit the players that just love that sound. I really don't think it sounds good in the mains, and to me, there is nothing worse than a stereo sound summed to mono. I've stopped running my stereo rigs live for years now unless I'm in a bigger venue or with a sound company that does stereo. Even with a stereo PA though....people are only getting one side and depending on what your stereo effects consist of, they could be getting the effected side which in reality, just sounds bad.

Example, I got a sort of John Sykes type tone here using our Enhancement block with my XL+. The first time the lick plays in stereo. Then, the second time mono. Listen to what happens to the tone once it's summed to mono. There is no escaping this for me, and it's certainly not a tone I would want live EVER.

Enhance Stereo to Mono

So, my question to you guys doing this claiming success is, how are you eliminating this artifact if the PA is mono? Also, if you are loud enough to hear your stereo rig, you must be deafening loud in the venue you are playing in. Raw stage volume to me, has always been a no no and has degraded the quality of both my live sound of my entire band, as well as being way more difficult as I am also the singer/lead guitarist. Overly loud guitarists need to try being the singer to where they actually have to sing and not yell over the sound. In one song, you'll bow down to your singer and apologize for killing him with volume once YOU'RE the guy singing. LOL! I was young and loud once.....and then I became the singer as well. HUGE changes had to be made. Haha!

Hey Danny!
I'm afraid my answer is a little bit of a cop out, but I always play the same place through the same PA, and it's always in stereo- I really never play summed to mono. I totally agree with you on the phasing issues of summing stereo to mono- if I were being summed to mono, I'd send mono, for sure.
As for the second part, I send my Axe straight to the board with stereo outs, and use in ears- the only loud instrument on stage are the drums- everything else is run silently (I'm a church player). If I were using actual cabs on stage, I wouldn't bother with stereo, it just happens to work well in the scenario in which I play. It's a big room with a year and a half old killer PA, and the soundman has me dialed in pretty well- walking around the room, I've never noticed any phasing issues from one spot to another, although I get why there would be. I'm not sure what our soundman does to make it work, but it seems to. I'm sorry that I can't answer in more detail, but I totally get where you're coming from, and I think it's mostly that I'm set up well for the specific circumstance that I play in, if that makes sense.

 

[Danny Danzi]

Hey Danny!
I'm afraid my answer is a little bit of a cop out, but I always play the same place through the same PA, and it's always in stereo- I really never play summed to mono. I totally agree with you on the phasing issues of summing stereo to mono- if I were being summed to mono, I'd send mono, for sure.
As for the second part, I send my Axe straight to the board with stereo outs, and use in ears- the only loud instrument on stage are the drums- everything else is run silently (I'm a church player). If I were using actual cabs on stage, I wouldn't bother with stereo, it just happens to work well in the scenario in which I play. It's a big room with a year and a half old killer PA, and the soundman has me dialed in pretty well- walking around the room, I've never noticed any phasing issues from one spot to another, although I get why there would be. I'm not sure what our soundman does to make it work, but it seems to. I'm sorry that I can't answer in more detail, but I totally get where you're coming from, and I think it's mostly that I'm set up well for the specific circumstance that I play in, if that makes sense.

Hey Adman, that's quite alright and useful as well. It totally makes sense. Glenn knocked it out of the park with that modern enhancement answer. I never used that before tonight. I've tried it, but never gravitated towards it like classic mode. I had no clue that summing modern to mono would eliminate the phase completely. I was actually amazed and may go stereo again just for my own head knowing this now. Lol!

I'll still have to figure out a fix for chorusing though. Mono chorus just doesn't do anything for me. Lol! Thanks for the reply!

 

[Smittefar]

Are you using Ping-pong delays? Otherwise, I would just send L or R to FOH if they are running a mono PA - not L+R (summing to mono).

 

[z2810inch]

After reading through this, I purchased a MIMIQ and put it in Output 3. I was very excited.

Of note, I've had my old trusty Rockman Stereo Chorus running Stereo through Output 4 for years (and previous rigs).

.....The Rockman Stereo Chorus blows the MIMIQ out of the water....it is full, warm and simply the best doubling effect (when set to subtle chorus) for distortion that I have ever come across.

 

[Danny Danzi]

Are you using Ping-pong delays? Otherwise, I would just send L or R to FOH if they are running a mono PA - not L+R (summing to mono).

I use mono Left for now. But normally, yeah I like those long ping pong delays, personally.

 

[ApocalypticKatana]

@Admin M@ and I emulated this easily on the Axe. I'll find the block and post it.

Any updates please? thank you!

 

[Adman103]

After reading through this, I purchased a MIMIQ and put it in Output 3. I was very excited.

Of note, I've had my old trusty Rockman Stereo Chorus running Stereo through Output 4 for years (and previous rigs).

.....The Rockman Stereo Chorus blows the MIMIQ out of the water....it is full, warm and simply the best doubling effect (when set to subtle chorus) for distortion that I have ever come across.

Wow, cool! Sometimes the classics really are best. I've never played a RSC, but it's good to know that people are playing around with different ways to do this and getting good results.

 

[ak301]

Weren't both @Admin M@ and @ccroyalsenders teasing us with presets that replicated the Mimiq

 

[Governator]

I just recorded this last night, using the Mimiq pedal before the AFX3. (Ignore the overly high presence - that needs to be tweaked in the amp blocks.)

Note that the Left channel, produced by the Mimiq pedal, is slightly boosted. I can't seem to fix the imbalance in the AFX3 or my DAW with level and/or EQ tweaks. I wonder if any of you can assist.

In order to diagnose and fix the Left channel boost, I'll provide the most important aspects of my rather convoluted setup.

The DI signal goes in and out of three Radial EXTC-SA units to achieve impedance matching for pedals, an ISP Decimator Pro Rack G Stereo Mod (noise suppressor), and other hardware units to differentiate three signals going into the AFX3.

The result, simplified, is as follows:

• Left: Mono signal -> Mimiq Pedal -> Pedal 1 (for colour) -> hardware compressor 1 -> AFX3 Input 2 Left -> Mesa amp IR 1 hard-panned left -> stereo cab block.
• Right: Mono signal -> Mimiq Pedal -> hardware compressor 2 -> AFX3 Input 2 Right -> Mesa/Boogie amp IR 2 hard-panned right -> stereo cab block.
• Center: Pedal 2 (for colour) -> Mic pre (for more colour) -> Prism Lyra 2 (for more colour) -> AFX3 digital in -> Drive block with no amp block -> mono cab block.

There are three noteworthy aspects to this setup:

• The Mimiq pedal splits the signal before Pedal 1 (and before any signal hits the AFX3).
• The two hardware compressors are linked, as my (failed) attempt to match the dynamics between the Left and Right channels.
• In the AFX3, all three signals go through a Compressor block, before going through Digital Output 1 -> Prism Lyra 2 -> DAW.

Here are my two theories for why the Left channel may be boosted:

• Pedal 1 has widened the stereo field in a way that is tough to fix. (That pedal is KHDK No. 2)
• The Mimiq pedal is flawed.

I have not upgraded the Mimiq pedal's firmware yet. Unless anyone has any other ideas, that's my next strategy to fix the left-right imbalance.

 

[sprint]

I assume the "mesa IRs" u r referring to above are 2 amp blocks panned hard L/R then into one stereo cab center panned?

- to simplify the diagnosis I would think about disabling the center channel, remove the hardware compressors, and test with the same amp/cab settings left and right - then see if the issue persists - if yes, then its probably the mimiq.

To avoid using the Mimiq for splitting and to keep its operation completely mono (mono in/out jacks used only to eliminate the chance of any weird Mimiq stereo out issues) you could try putting mimiq in the left side of loop 3 or 4 while the right side of the loop is out and then back in with a single cable (there's probably a more elegant way to route this but as a quick and dirty method this will work) . This is the way I have my Mimiq set up except that my Mimiq side amp is provided by an axefx2 in the loop of the axefx3).