Studio Speakers or FRFR?

I had a Friedman ASM-12 (the wedge) for a while and I'm not surprised by your findings. I could make it sound good, maybe even great, when I dialled in say a Friedman BE preset into a Greenback IR and out to the ASM-12 and played loud. To me, the first thing you have to do if things doesn't sound like what you expect is to turn up the volume and I found that especially true with the ASM-12. It's far from flat and to me sounded pretty dull in most situations except that typical Friedman BE rock sound when played at a decent volume, I'd definitely ran the treble and presence higher than I would on other speakers. But that sound when it was "in the zone" was very satisfying to play.

At the time I was A/B testing with the CLR, the Friedman ASM-12, Matrix FR10 and my Yamaha DXR10's that I've had for a very long time. The Matrix FR10 was pretty cool. Very small and light but I had to run it flat out to stand a chance so I sold that. The Friedman only sounded good to me in that rock sound scenario which to be far is what I play 70-80% of the time. On top of that it was big, heavy, cumbersome to move, scratched easily and was also not very loud. It was louder than the FR10 but I still had to pretty much crank it to sit with the drummer in that band so I sold that as well.

I think if you're playing at home you'd be much happier with a pair of studio monitors. Everything will sound better that way. Get the best monitors you can afford. Adam-Audio A series or I'd probably look into the new Red Sound Studio monitors. I've added a pair of Red Sound Elis.8 to my stable and they sound great.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Are you certain that speaker isnt broken? Sounds like maybe a blown voice coil or something else going on. I have no experience with it personally but it shouldnt be so far off the mark. Friedman isnt junk.

Other than that, if you dig what you're hearing on headphones, do you need to look further? Get a good return policy on the Adams and check them out. I have an old pair of original A7s and they're still sounding great here.
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It's definetly not the speaker. It's been like this since day 1, others have complained about similar issues, but say it can be dialed out. I personally don't feel like constantly having to dial out such muffled tones if I can get better results with different gear if that makes sense.
 
I am running the Adam A7V's. They are incredible and affordable. When I switch to 4CM I run thru my Matrix GT1000 and a pair of real cabs.
 
+1 on IEMs. I use Shure SE215s plugged straight into the headphone jack! :tonguewink: I've got no time to wonder about the best this and that, so I use either my Presonus Eris E5s or the SE215s - both cheap enough, both good enough.

Just make sure you start with the physical out 1 knob at zero and turn it up slowly.
 
I think the short answer is yes, get the studio monitors. For your described use case of low volume home playing that is the best solution in my opinion. The improvement in sound quality will be really noticeable. The Friedman products seem like they are intended for gig volume applications.

I have the full gamut of options for monitoring including nearfield studio monitors (Adam A5X and Focal Solo 6Be), FRFR speakers (Atomic CLR), tube power amplifiers (Fryette PS-2 and the effects return of a Fryette Sig:X), guitar cabinets (4x12 and 2x12 Fryette cabs), solid state power amps (Seymour Duncan Power Stage 700 and several QSC amps), and high quality IEMs (custom molded 64 Audio N8). Out of all of those options the nearfield studio monitors are the most satisfying for low to moderate volume playing. If I have the house to myself and want to really push the volume up then I like the FRFR setup or a solid state power amp with a stereo pair of 4x12 cabs. For late night nearly silent playing or for playing live I use the IEMs.
 
OrganicZed said:
I think the short answer is yes, get the studio monitors. For your described use case of low volume home playing that is the best solution in my opinion. The improvement in sound quality will be really noticeable. The Friedman products seem like they are intended for gig volume applications.

I have the full gamut of options for monitoring including nearfield studio monitors (Adam A5X and Focal Solo 6Be), FRFR speakers (Atomic CLR), tube power amplifiers (Fryette PS-2 and the effects return of a Fryette Sig:X), guitar cabinets (4x12 and 2x12 Fryette cabs), solid state power amps (Seymour Duncan Power Stage 700 and several QSC amps), and high quality IEMs (custom molded 64 Audio N8). Out of all of those options the nearfield studio monitors are the most satisfying for low to moderate volume playing. If I have the house to myself and want to really push the volume up then I like the FRFR setup or a solid state power amp with a stereo pair of 4x12 cabs. For late night nearly silent playing or for playing live I use the IEMs.
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Do you find Studio speakers get you in the ballpark of what you hear in your IEMs or do you need to completely re-dial your tone?
 
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Kyloc_Armis said:
I never thought about this route. Any suggestions? I feel like I'd still want to play unplugged from in ears at some point but this could be a good interim solution if the price is right.
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I think that the Truthear x Crinacle Zero Reds are the best budget IEMs out right now (the reds are better than the originals). They produce impressively low distortion and a great frequency response. They're very low impedance, which means that some headphone amps won't drive them correctly. But they do sound good with the FM3. I can't imagine why the HP output on the AF3 would be a higher impedance output...but maybe it is.

FWIW, I stopped using my wired belt pack after finally isolating it as a source of unwanted/additional distortion. The $70 Ernie Ball guitar+headphone cable works very well. I attached the guitar/hp end of the cable to a belt clip with shock cord...so when I want to change guitars, I can just unplug it, the cable stays attached to me, and swap out the guitar from my rack. It works very well. The things I'm playing with go into Input 2, so my IEM/monitor control is on the perform-PP page with a volume control on the top of the device.

They sound better through a very nice desktop DAC + HP amp, but they're not at all bad from the FM3.

You could also use good headphones this way if you have some you like.

I do that quite a lot. I also have a very nice speaker system in my room, and I'll play through my computer and them as well. But...I'm honestly not the biggest fan of playing like that for whatever reason. It sounds great, but it's very much a "control room" feeling.

FWIW....

The other thing I do when I don't want to play through IEMs is to have one extra studio monitor placed "wrong"...it's off to the side and very low to the ground. Backing tracks go through the mains, and the fractal sound goes through that one speaker (after playing with stereo for a while, I prefer mono guitar sounds). I've also had it on the floor behind me before. It really does give more of an impression of a cab in the room. It's not perfect, but it actually sounds good quiet instead of sounding like it would be better at gig volumes like basically all of the FRFRs.

There are differences between the single-monitor sound, the mains sound, and the IEM sound....but they don't bother me. I don't think I've ever made a change on one of them that was terrible for the others, and I don't make any changes for each specific one. A guitar amp is going to sound a little difference in every place you play it...and this is no different.

I'm also seriously considering getting a cab to try it out....mostly trying to decide how much money it's worth investing.
 
Indeed, studio monitors are per se “full range, flat response”. They are designed to be neutral sounding.
Getting your sound to work on every system, is kind of a mastering task, and nothing except studio monitors will get you there.
Now your ears have to get accustomed to this “flat” sounding, the rest is up to your axe-fx tweaking.
Get the best monitors you can and do not overlook the room treatment. It’s often the weakest part of your listening environnement.
 
Take the KRK G4 Rokit 5 studio monitors, great, cheap and small. Combine it with a cab with a Celestion Guitar FRFR speaker and an solid state amp later for cab in the room sound.
 
Johan Allard said:
The Matrix FR10 was pretty cool. Very small and light but I had to run it flat out to stand a chance so I sold that.
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Hello! I would like to understand why you sold your Matrix FR10. Was your Matrix FR10 active or passive? What did you think of his tones on it? Its tones were different when using it on IEM or FOH? Could you explain your experience better?
 
My vote is for an atomic CLR. Studio monitors are good, but you have a fixed position with them which may or may not sound good depending on your room.
 
I’ve used FutureSonics custom-mold (hard shell) IEMs for the past ten years and I love them. I currently use their MG5-HX model, as their MG6 “top of the line” units hyped the VLF a little bit to improve on-stage use for live music. They are not inexpensive, but neither are my guitars, my Fractal or my ears. (FWIW, my primary use of MG5–HX is to provide a reliable reference/comparison music source when I’m dialing-in large FOH systems — and studio monitor systems, for that matter.)

1) custom “hard shell” molds transmit VLF and LF through “bone conduction” (tight interface between IEM and surrounding ear structure, and you’d swear someone put a sub next to you) for accurate broadband audio response. It’s sort of amazing being psychoacoustically “tricked” into “feeling” the low end, and to me it’s absolutely worth the expense of impressions/molds/etc. Hearing that “bottom octave” through IEMs is very cool, and really helps with dialing presets to deal with “mud issues”.

2) FS IEMs use a single dynamic driver (tiny loudspeaker) instead of multiple (hearing aid type) armature drivers. Far more natural sound (phase-accurate b/c there’s no internal crossover network) without the edginess of some armatures.

3) like any good-fitting IEM, they negate any “room acoustic” issues b/c they’re “tuned” to your isolated ear canal. Duh. I dial my AFX3 in using them and my presets all translate well to other audio chains (FRFR, FOH, studio monitors).

4) rather than panning the stereo outputs of the AFX3 amps/cab hard left/right, I usually pan them inwards a smidge to firm up the sound “in the middle of my head” and let the FX/reverbs occupy the far left/right for better separation/clarity.

So there. Hope this helps.
 
Kyloc - How do you have the volume knob set on the asc12? It’s best to run it cranked. It really opens up the sound. I have the same set up but run 2 asc-12s. Also have similar guitars - prs tremonti, custom 24, etc. I’m pretty pleased with the sound even at bedroom levels. IRs are also critical. My favorite for high gain tones are the ownhammer heavy hitters packs.
 
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