Studio Speakers or FRFR?

[Johan Allard]

Hello! I would like to understand why you sold your Matrix FR10. Was your Matrix FR10 active or passive? What did you think of his tones on it? Its tones were different when using it on IEM or FOH? Could you explain your experience better?

This was in early 2018 so memories are from then. I think they sounded alright. I had one and the active one. I used it on a couple of rehearsal and one gig. I looked into them because they where small, light and Matrix has good reputation. As I said, I had to absolutely crank them to be able to sit with the drummer in the band I played with at the time and the CLR which was my reference sounded better in every way. If you're on an absolute size/weight reduction journey I think they may possibly be a good option. And as I said in the previous post, I now have a pair of Elis.8 but got them this year so some 5 years later. I've never used just the one Elis.8 but if I looked at something sub 10Kg for whatever reason (back pain, ...) I'd take one of the Elis.8 over how I remembered the Matrix FR10. I haven't played one but at 2Kg more, I would be very surprised if the Redsound MF.10 wouldn't completely destroy the Matrix FR10 in every way except for being 2Kg heavier.

I don't use IEM so can't comment and the gig we played was a really small club with no FoH so can't comment on that either.

 

[tysonlt]

I have an FR10 too, sitting in my shed. I found it a bit boxy sounding, but I’m used to JBL EONs which are pretty bright.

 

[Kyloc_Armis]

Kyloc - How do you have the volume knob set on the asc12? It’s best to run it cranked. It really opens up the sound. I have the same set up but run 2 asc-12s. Also have similar guitars - prs tremonti, custom 24, etc. I’m pretty pleased with the sound even at bedroom levels. IRs are also critical. My favorite for high gain tones are the ownhammer heavy hitters packs.

I've tried it at every output level and then controlled my volume via the Axe FX, doesn't make a difference. I too have the Ownhammer cabs, they deifnetly sound better but I just can't get rid of the muffle. I know a lot of it has to do with the room, but I'm not investing money into fixing the space lol. I just want gear that will sound better if such a thing exists.

 

[Thomas Obester]

I've tried it at every output level and then controlled my volume via the Axe FX, doesn't make a difference. I too have the Ownhammer cabs, they deifnetly sound better but I just can't get rid of the muffle. I know a lot of it has to do with the room, but I'm not investing money into fixing the space lol. I just want gear that will sound better if such a thing exists.

I would suggest trying EV PXM-12´s.
They destroyed my ASM-12´s.

 

[md1234]

Get the best monitors you can and do not overlook the room treatment. It’s often the weakest part of your listening environnement.

I have an untreated room with A7V's on the desk, and have Sonarworks to create/apply a speaker profile. I have loaded the profile into the speakers. I am happy with the results. Had some annoying frequencies in the 50-500Hz range, they are gone now.

 

[strabes]

See my post from the other day here.

 

[Amsz]

I have an untreated room with A7V's on the desk, and have Sonarworks to create/apply a speaker profile. I have loaded the profile into the speakers. I am happy with the results. Had some annoying frequencies in the 50-500Hz range, they are gone now.

It's good for the frequency response but it does not treat phases issues, nor the reflexions or reverberations problems.
Room treatment is probably the best value investment, especially when you already have decent speakers.

 

[md1234]

Thanks @Amsz for the advice, it's getting better every once in a while I'm sure there is room for improvement (pun intended) and room treatment will definitely be the next thing on the list.

 

[Amsz]

Thanks @Amsz for the advice, it's getting better every once in a while I'm sure there is room for improvement (pun intended) and room treatment will definitely be the next thing on the list.

If you have sonaworks, you probably have a linear mic.
A good start to see what's going on with your room is to run REW https://www.roomeqwizard.com/
Sometimes, a little positioning can already helps ;-)

 

[md1234]

Correct, i used the linear mic to measure the room (IIRC it was a 31 points measurement).

 

[Amsz]

Nice!
With REW you'll get very informative measures like that:

 

[Budda]

I went frfr->monitors->headphones and have only ran headphones for.. a year or so? No complaints. One day i’ll plug into the power amp and cabs in the same room, but im in no rush.

 

[Kyloc_Armis]

Quick update:

I went out and bought a pair of Adam A7V monitors. There's no boomy bass like I get with the Friedman ASC-12, but now it just sounds thin and muffled instead. So basically the Friedman gives me boomy muffled and the Adams give me thin muffled.

And on top of this ongoing issue, I also get Midi feedback coming through both the Friedman and the Adams. I went out and spent the money on Best-Tronics Midi cables and that didn't solve jack.

Thanks you for all your suggestions everyone. But sadly, it's time to turf the Fractal. I'm either grossly incompetent (but I feel like it shouldn't be THIS hard to make something NOT sound like crap) or the AxeFx just isn't for me.

 

[Bruce Sokolovic]

Quick update:

I went out and bought a pair of Adam A7V monitors. There's no boomy bass like I get with the Friedman ASC-12, but now it just sounds thin and muffled instead. So basically the Friedman gives me boomy muffled and the Adams give me thin muffled.

And on top of this ongoing issue, I also get Midi feedback coming through both the Friedman and the Adams. I went out and spent the money on Best-Tronics Midi cables and that didn't solve jack.

Thanks you for all your suggestions everyone. But sadly, it's time to turf the Fractal. I'm either grossly incompetent (but I feel like it shouldn't be THIS hard to make something NOT sound like crap) or the AxeFx just isn't for me.

Midi carries no audio. What’s midi feedback?

 

[marsonic]

I'm not investing money into fixing the space lol. I just want gear that will sound better if such a thing exists.

But sadly, it's time to turf the Fractal. I'm either grossly incompetent (but I feel like it shouldn't be THIS hard to make something NOT sound like crap) or the AxeFx just isn't for me.

when I run it through my budget Shure headphones, everything sounds infinitely better.

Has anyone asked what your room is like?

When you bought your Adams recently, where did you put them in the room?

 

[Rick]

Quick update:

I went out and bought a pair of Adam A7V monitors. There's no boomy bass like I get with the Friedman ASC-12, but now it just sounds thin and muffled instead. So basically the Friedman gives me boomy muffled and the Adams give me thin muffled.

And on top of this ongoing issue, I also get Midi feedback coming through both the Friedman and the Adams. I went out and spent the money on Best-Tronics Midi cables and that didn't solve jack.

Thanks you for all your suggestions everyone. But sadly, it's time to turf the Fractal. I'm either grossly incompetent (but I feel like it shouldn't be THIS hard to make something NOT sound like crap) or the AxeFx just isn't for me.

It’s possible the Axe Fx might not be your thing; I can’t argue that as it’s a personal decision. But the unit is clearly superior to some pretty discerning ears, so it’s not in the capability of the Axe Fx. It’s got to be somewhere in how it’s set up. Perhaps it‘s in the basics somewhere: the effect of low relative volume to what you compare it to in your headphones (nothing sounds massive at open-air bedroom volumes), a wah or other effect is unknowingly engaged, a global setting is borking the tone, etc. You could share a few of your presets for other heavy music players here to have a go on. Like you said, Leon is using his Axe Fx to get awesome heavy tones direct to track, so it’s in the box. My best guess is that what you want is loud, crushing tone. You can get that in headphones or IEMs, but the only way to feel it with a monitor of any kind is to crank it up.

All that said, if there is an amp that gets that for you at bedroom volume without phones, you should get it.

 

[666was999]

So basically the Friedman gives me boomy muffled and the Adams give me thin muffled.

Yes, that how these two systems are. One is rather boomy, the other one could need a sub. But I don't think they are muffled. Run all kinds of music trough them to find out, how they sound?

However there are plenty of eqs and other stuff inside the axe-fx that allow you to change everything to your own needs. When you are not self-confident enough start doing your own thing, no modeler ever will do it for you. I've hardly found any preset ready to gig anywhere. You always need to change things in your own way. Even for real tube amps there isn't any standardised guitar-amp-cab combination, so it always is on you to make your very own thing.
With a profiler you could at least wade through a billion of already prepared combinations. I find their work-flow frustrating, however after some search you might find something ready to use there?

 

[Kyloc_Armis]

Midi carries no audio. What’s midi feedback?

It get a beeping sound coming through the monitors. I contacted RJM about this and they said this is caused by un-shielded midi cables. Supposedly the monitors can pick up the Midi transmitting back and for between the foot controller and the Fractal. I spent the money and bought premium Best-Tronics cables and it solved nothing unfortunetly.

 

[Kyloc_Armis]

Has anyone asked what your room is like?

When you bought your Adams recently, where did you put them in the room?

I'm in a 600 square foot, untreated basement with carpet. I fully understand how the room can make a big difference, but I also know with literally any other actual amp that I can dial out mud very easily in the same space as I used to be an analog guy before I made the switch to Fractal.

 

[marsonic]

I'm in a 600 square foot, untreated basement with carpet. I fully understand how the room can make a big difference, but I also know with literally any other actual amp that I can dial out mud very easily in the same space as I used to be an analog guy before I made the switch to Fractal.

How is the speaker setup different from the cab setup?

It get a beeping sound coming through the monitors.

Are you using balanced cables to the monitors?