Startling discovery... for me at least...

[FractalAudio]

Wouldn't you be combining a dry signal with a wet signal , thus changing the sound (tone)?

Or are you saying it has no effect because the 'mix' is nearly zero?

The mix is irrelevant. You are combining dry with dry with wet. This is no different than simply setting the mix to some level and increasing the level.

Look at it this way: let d be the amount of dry signal and w be the amount of wet. If it's a simple serial routing the output is a*d + b*w, where a and b are set by the mix.

If you put the reverb in parallel the output is a*d + b*w + c*d, (where c 1.0 due to the dry path). With a little math the result is (a+c)*d + b*w which is the same wet level and more dry. IOW it's no different than increasing the level and decreasing the mix.

 

[Jimmytwotimes]

It's just louder. You are falling victim to the classic Fletcher-Munson effect where "louder sounds better". Putting the reverb in parallel like that just adds volume. It has NO effect on the actual tone.

Dammit that Fletcher-Munson !!!

I'm going to do some more experimentation when I get home from work - I am curious to try it again with the volume lowered and some fresh ears.
So what would be the actual difference be by running effects or anything for that matter, above/below the amp block? Or does it just matter where each block is in the chain?

Even after almost a year of having the XL, I still haven't even scratched the surface of what this thing can do - and would still say I'm very much a beginner at figuring all this out.

 

[JRod4928]

Gotcha. My takeaway from this is that there's a much simpler way to mix than the way I've been doing it

 

[zenaxe]

Congratulations, you've discovered volume.

 

[JRod4928]

must be an echo in here

 

[Toopy14]

It's just louder. You are falling victim to the classic Fletcher-Munson effect where "louder sounds better". Putting the reverb in parallel like that just adds volume. It has NO effect on the actual tone.

Yep, I learned about the Herman-Munster effect when I tried two cabs in parallel.

 

[moo cow]

my junk always sounds better louder! i've had several "aha" moments only to realize i had simply just turned the level up which told my ears "mo betta".

 

[Rex]

Wouldn't you be combining a dry signal with a wet signal , thus changing the sound (tone)?

You're combining dry and wet signal already. The Reverb block is made up of a reverb effect in parallel with the dry signal. That's what the Mix parameter is all about—it balances the set and dry levels.

 

[pima1234]

It is actually an important lesson to learn. Sometimes, learning from experimentation is the best way. Tweaking at stage volume is so important for live playing, but that might not always translate to great recorded sounds. FM still plays a big role when dialing in presets. I'm getting used to how my presets translate when using headphones to dial them as opposed to my CLRs. It's a matter of knowing how to compensate and then testing. Regardless, tweaking is still necessary when playing live (depends on the venue) and when recording (getting guitar sounds to fit in the mix).

 

[JRod4928]

You're combining dry and wet signal already. The Reverb block is made up of a reverb effect in parallel with the dry signal. That's what the Mix parameter is all about—it balances the set and dry levels.

Yes I understand that now thanks to Cliff. My point was that I always ignored the mix parameter because I didn't know what it did. What I was doing (and op) is a more complicated way to accomplish the same thing, except it messes up the wet/dry levels.

 

[Jimmytwotimes]

Yes I understand that now thanks to Cliff. My point was that I always ignored the mix parameter because I didn't know what it did. What I was doing (and op) is a more complicated way to accomplish the same thing, except it messes up the wet/dry levels.

Yes - learn something new every day - and much more to learn.

 

[Rex]

Yes I understand that now thanks to Cliff.

Cool. Not everyone can follow the math, so I just translated it into a few words for the benefit of anyone looking for a quick explanation.

 

[chris]

Welcome to post #7 haha

 

[brokenvail]

I run my reverb in parallel but mix at 100 and I use ingain to control how much reverb I get. If this adds 6db of level should I cut that 6db in the reverb block or somewhere else? Also I run my delay in parallel in another row. Same idea. Mix 100% and ingain to control how much delay I get. Does that mean I am adding 6db there too? So both delay and verb if on at once boost my level by 12 db?

Mute type is mute in by the way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[FractalAudio]

I run my reverb in parallel but mix at 100 and I use ingain to control how much reverb I get. If this adds 6db of level should I cut that 6db in the reverb block or somewhere else? Also I run my delay in parallel in another row. Same idea. Mix 100% and ingain to control how much delay I get. Does that mean I am adding 6db there too? So both delay and verb if on at once boost my level by 12 db?

Mute type is mute in by the way


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No because the mix is 100% so you are not adding any dry.

 

[vulcan32]

-This has long been the initial step that I perform when altering factory presets: I separate reverb effects from the sound of the amp and cabinet via a parallel feed, as I prefer that amp and cabinet components are louder than anything else. Setting the reverb mix to 100%, I then increase its gain until I perceive distance (as opposed to hearing "reverberation", which I abhor out of context)...

 

[FractalAudio]

-This has long been the initial step that I perform when altering factory presets: I separate reverb effects from the sound of the amp and cabinet via a parallel feed, as I prefer that amp and cabinet components are louder than anything else. Setting the reverb mix to 100%, I then increase its gain until I perceive distance (as opposed to hearing "reverberation", which I abhor out of context)...

There is absolutely NO difference when doing this. A series routing with the mix at less than 100% contains some amount of dry and wet. A parallel routing with mix at 100% (or any amount for that matter) contains some amount of dry and wet. You can achieve identical results (albeit with perhaps different settings) and there is absolutely NO advantage to using parallel over serial in this case. Now if you want delay and reverb in parallel then you will want a parallel path but this whole nonsense about there being a sonic difference is, well, nonsense.

 

[chris]

There is absolutely NO difference when doing this. A series routing with the mix at less than 100% contains some amount of dry and wet. A parallel routing with mix at 100% (or any amount for that matter) contains some amount of dry and wet. You can achieve identical results (albeit with perhaps different settings) and there is absolutely NO advantage to using parallel over serial in this case. Now if you want delay and reverb in parallel then you will want a parallel path but this whole nonsense about there being a sonic difference is, well, nonsense.

hopefully people will believe it now.

 

[philipacamaniac]

There is absolutely NO difference when doing this. A series routing with the mix at less than 100% contains some amount of dry and wet. A parallel routing with mix at 100% (or any amount for that matter) contains some amount of dry and wet. You can achieve identical results (albeit with perhaps different settings) and there is absolutely NO advantage to using parallel over serial in this case. Now if you want delay and reverb in parallel then you will want a parallel path but this whole nonsense about there being a sonic difference is, well, nonsense.

As I read this, I heard it in Christopher Lloyd's Doc Brown frazzled science-y voice. And pictured him sketching out the grid on a chalkboard.

 

[vulcan32]

There is absolutely NO difference when doing this. A series routing with the mix at less than 100% contains some amount of dry and wet. A parallel routing with mix at 100% (or any amount for that matter) contains some amount of dry and wet. You can achieve identical results (albeit with perhaps different settings) and there is absolutely NO advantage to using parallel over serial in this case. Now if you want delay and reverb in parallel then you will want a parallel path but this whole nonsense about there being a sonic difference is, well, nonsense.

I do not claim to hear a difference in tone, nor do I defend any assertion to this effect. This configuration is merely my preference- ingrained perhaps, from years of wiring rack preamps in parallel...

At any rate, some players enjoy the sound of reverb; I am not amongst them. I typically set the input gain parameter of reverb blocks to 10% or less...